The Myth of the "Fun Loving Noob"

[Satinavian]

He then asked me and others within my linkshell if I would rather have "fun loving noobs" than "hardcore elitists".

The kind of group i want depends completely on what i want to do.

Sure, hardcore players tend to be more successful and faster. But when i am a new player to some contend i really hate to get grouped in some elite farming speedrun, where i have no chance to understand what is going on and am completely busy just not getting left behind somewhere and staying alive while obviously contributing othing. Sure, i will get the mission success, but it is not fun.
Now a training run for a hard mission is completely different. One ore several vets, one or several newbs. The group stops several times to explain things and roles for tough encounteres, everyone is patient - that is the best way to learn endgame raids and stuff and it helps getting more players later who know, what to do.

There is also the exploring, flower- snifffing, no-spoilers kind of gameplay. Ideally you want a group of newcomers (for the content) for that with a lot of time. For lack of options (everyone can only be new once) i often end up doing that kind of exploring solo. But if i have to group the last thing i want is some pro who has done it already 50 times, is bored to hell while the newbs take their sweet time exploring and can't even nudge them forward without giving spoilers.

Now, when i am a vet, i want exclusively other experienced players for the boring farming runs but would have no problem with a training run once in a while.


That all said i really really like MMOs with grouping/pug-interfaces where you can use comments and specify the direction your group is supposed to take. The more random the grouping algorithem the more often you get the "wrong" kind of players.




Oh, and of course there are dicks on every level of skill. I have seen a pair of veterans starting and advertising "training" runs in low level content guiding the new players purpousefully into traps strong monster groups to get them killed. And i have seen many new players who can't accept the fact that their gear/build/skill is not as strong as that of vet party members, feel "challanged", try to take extra risks and show off and get themself predictably killed. Or those who lie about their abilities knowledge, get assigned raid roles, have not a single clue what to do and try to hide that fact until the raid obviously fails.


If you are new, please say so. If the experienced players are decent people, they will help you and if not they can at least plan for it and still grab a success somehow.

 

[CaitSeith]

Their cash is just as hard earned, but when a skilled player helps pull a group to victory over a dungeon or encounter, they made their own and their party's monthly fee worth it.

That is if the players' main reason to play the game is to conquer the game. But formal studies show that's the case for only a fraction of the player base. Others play to explore the and appreciate the game, others play because the game is the best way they hang around with their friends, and others play to dominate other players. Not acknowledging this, and thinking your play style is the only valid one, will lead only to frustration and will make your playtime (and the others' around you) a miserable one.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

So. Much. Over-Generalisation. I couldn't finish reading everything here, the fundamental flaw in the logic is too much to submit one's time to. Never knew there was supposed to be a "fun-loving-noob" stereotype, but there you see is the main problem; stereotyping...from what source of information even? You want to generalise but your first generalisation was percieved to be wrong, so now you are trying to appeal to whomever else may be generalising like your past self. while seeking a more relatable generalisation. Pro-tip; don't generalise. People are all different people and throwing them into the pidgeon-hole of "not-so-fun-or-maybe-fun-i-dont-really-know-noob" is not going to help you understand any better. Just...don't worry about it, everyone is a case-by-case human, you are wasting precious neurons attempting to think otherwise. There is so much more to life.

 

[Bombiz]

Snip

I'm wondering was he trying to troll his team or did he generally thing those were bad choices.

 

[3asytarg3t]

Exactly, and odds are it could go either way. This is the reason I mostly don't play MP any more of any kind.

Either you end up with clueless players who look as if they can't be bothered to understand and contribute in a team based game or you've got the jackals who have self anointed themselves the pros who in reality are nothing more than playground bullies making snap judgments about how someone is playing and then insisting they do what they think is best and if not instantly kicking them.

 

[Phasmal]

I dunno, I've been playing WoW for about 7 years, and I've tried my hand at pretty much every half-decent MMO over the years, and I'd still rather have a group of earnest noobs than a group full of joyless fucks who treat the game like a second job.

There are always going to be noobs. Sometimes you can give advice, sometimes you can't. Not everybody wants your advice.

Unfortunately, they pay their subscription just like you do, and they have as much right to play the game as you do. Even if the way they play upsets you.

If it bothers you that much, try and find a decent guild to play with regularly, and avoid randoms.

It's things like this that makes the gaming community seem toxic. Not noobs not listening. Adults throwing hissy fits because someone doesn't want their video game advice.

 

[Creator002]

It's not a selfish thing, but in fact it is SELFISH to assume that people are paying $15 in a game for you to troll or waste their time when they want to complete content, and chances are that person is going to school or work and their free time is very valuable, especially since they are investing monthly in the game.

While I agree with this sentiment, having a microphone, fair amount of skill, and playing gun game on Black Ops using only the knife really makes me laugh.

 

[TT Kairen]

That is if the players' main reason to play the game is to conquer the game. But formal studies show that's the case for only a fraction of the player base. Others play to explore the and appreciate the game, others play because the game is the best way they hang around with their friends, and others play to dominate other players. Not acknowledging this, and thinking your play style is the only valid one, will lead only to frustration and will make your playtime (and the others' around you) a miserable one.

This statement is irrelevant, because the statement of mine you quoted related to group PvE content. If they're in a group with me, then obviously we are on some sort of random dungeon run, or similar. So we aren't exploring (questing, story), they aren't hanging around with their friends (or they'd be in a group with THEM, not me, or just hanging around chatting), and we aren't dominating other players (PvP). So the playstyle I speak of is the one we are engaging in at the moment, and the door swings both ways on playstyle acknowledgement.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

Oh the joy of first world "problems".

I don't game online because I find a lot of people stress over things which don't matter, and personally I find that'll hinder the joy I experience from a game.

So I excercize my freedom of choice as a human being, and steer clear of gaming which bothers me. Maybe you should do similar?

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

Its not that Elitist hate fun, its that they prioritize wining over having fun. Now that's totally their call to make, and more power to them. But they treat anyone not of that mindset as less than trash. Like OP says, they're not just noobs trying to have fun in a game they bought, they're actively trying to tr oll the other users by not subscribing to the 'Winning over Fun' mindset.
Now you can have fun and still win. That's a thing that happens. But in the Elite mind, you cannot have fun and loose. And speaking as a guy who plays a bunch of Arkham Horror and Dawn of War 2 online, loosing happens a lot. And its fine by me so long as I had fun, which seems utterly alien to OP

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

 

[gsilver]

I was talking to someone, and the topic came up. He basically broke it down into "new players" and "noobs"
The new players are exactly what it sounds like, people who are new to the game.
The noobs are the ones who can't or won't play properly.

New players are necessary for the game to keep running, the other is not wanted.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I was talking to someone, and the topic came up. He basically broke it down into "new players" and "noobs"
The new players are exactly what it sounds like, people who are new to the game.
The noobs are the ones who can't or won't play properly.

New players are necessary for the game to keep running, the other is not wanted.

Problem is, the OP and Dreiko assume that simply because you ARE a new player, that you're automatically refusing to play propertly unless proven otherwise.

And I hate Guilty Till Proven Innocent, myself.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

 

[DoPo]

I was talking to someone, and the topic came up. He basically broke it down into "new players" and "noobs"
The new players are exactly what it sounds like, people who are new to the game.
The noobs are the ones who can't or won't play properly.

New players are necessary for the game to keep running, the other is not wanted.

Well, this is a nuance of the jargon that was lost over the years. It wasn't always terribly clear but still. The basic premise is this:
- "newb" is short for a "newbie" or new player in other words. That's pretty much all it means with the slight negative connotation of lacking experience
- "noob" derives from the above but is used as an insult to people. It's packs up all the negative things about being new, so if somebody gets called "noob" they (and their skills) are likened to that of a new player. Moreover, "noobs" are the ones who don't want to learn, improve and move forward from that title.

So, "newbies" are just staring up but show potential, "noobs" are both bad at the game and are unlikely to ever become better.

Thing is, it's not like people were terribly careful with the wording they used. Moreover, "noob" is just an easy insult to throw around, hence that subtext has been more or less lost nowadays. The term "noob" now encompasses both "newb" and (the more restricted) "noob", so new players get called that, bad players get called that...pretty much everybody gets called that.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

For the life of me I have no idea. Back when I played Space Marine regularly, I was ranked #8 in the world, and I still considered myself somewhat a noob. Because I made noob mistakes like getting baited when I should have grenaded, or dodging left when I should have shoulder charged. And I wasn't trying to win, I was trying to have a good time. It just so happened through constantly playing I got pretty damn good. But even making it into the Top 10 was never my goal, nor did I care about ranking to 8.
That shit just happened. And if it didn't, I still would have had fun.

So I guess I will always be a noob in Space Marine for daring to spit in the face of the Git-Gud-OH-BABY-A-TRIPLE tots pros by having fun with the game I bought to have fun with.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

It's something known for years. Like I said, veterans even when on new games start at a higher point due to their attitude of being willing to swallow their ego and accept advice without ignorantly dismissing it. It's all in the attitude. You may not be the best due to not having enough time to get all the best gear or grind all the levels needed or whatever but if you acknowledge that instead of pretending you somehow enjoy the game more despite (or even more hilariously because of) sucking, if you don't pretend you see an aspect of the game everyone who criticised you doesn't by definition, it'll go a long way towards making people respect you.

 

[RaikuFA]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

It's something known for years. Like I said, veterans even when on new games start at a higher point due to their attitude of being willing to swallow their ego and accept advice without ignorantly dismissing it. It's all in the attitude. You may not be the best due to not having enough time to get all the best gear or grind all the levels needed or whatever but if you acknowledge that instead of pretending you somehow enjoy the game more despite (or even more hilariously because of) sucking, if you don't pretend you see an aspect of the game everyone who criticised you doesn't by definition, it'll go a long way towards making people respect you.

Except when you kick a kid out of a arcade cause he can't "prove your worth" to a bunch of fighting game enthusiasts you lose all respect.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

It's something known for years. Like I said, veterans even when on new games start at a higher point due to their attitude of being willing to swallow their ego and accept advice without ignorantly dismissing it. It's all in the attitude. You may not be the best due to not having enough time to get all the best gear or grind all the levels needed or whatever but if you acknowledge that instead of pretending you somehow enjoy the game more despite (or even more hilariously because of) sucking, if you don't pretend you see an aspect of the game everyone who criticised you doesn't by definition, it'll go a long way towards making people respect you.

Except when you kick a kid out of a arcade cause he can't "prove your worth" to a bunch of fighting game enthusiasts you lose all respect.

This was more of an MMO setting type talk. Kicking people out of places you don't own is bad in all sorts of ways and definitely some kind of bizzare accident that most noobs do not encounter. What we're talking about here is more like inviting a tank into your party and realizing they wish to play as a dps class and then telling them their chosen job is only capable of tanking and not dpsing. It isn't even a rude comment, you're giving them facts, ones critical to their progression with the game, not assaulting them or whatever arcade people did back 15 years ago when numerous arcades existed in the US.

 

[Bombiz]

But as OP says, wanting to just have fun or being okay with loosing constitutes the highest level of tr olling imaginable and they're utter scum for daring to have a different point of view.

While we're on that line of thinking what is the minimum requirement for one to lose that "Noob" scarlet letter than OP and Dreiko slap on every new player? Is there a ratio of successful runs to failures? Gear ratings?

I mean, we need to codify this shit or it's going to be a mess.

It's something known for years. Like I said, veterans even when on new games start at a higher point due to their attitude of being willing to swallow their ego and accept advice without ignorantly dismissing it. It's all in the attitude. You may not be the best due to not having enough time to get all the best gear or grind all the levels needed or whatever but if you acknowledge that instead of pretending you somehow enjoy the game more despite (or even more hilariously because of) sucking, if you don't pretend you see an aspect of the game everyone who criticised you doesn't by definition, it'll go a long way towards making people respect you.

Except when you kick a kid out of a arcade cause he can't "prove your worth" to a bunch of fighting game enthusiasts you lose all respect.

This was more of an MMO setting type talk. Kicking people out of places you don't own is bad in all sorts of ways and definitely some kind of bizzare accident that most noobs do not encounter. What we're talking about here is more like inviting a tank into your party and realizing they wish to play as a dps class and then telling them their chosen job is only capable of tanking and not dpsing. It isn't even a rude comment, you're giving them facts, ones critical to their progression with the game, not assaulting them or whatever arcade people did back 15 years ago when numerous arcades existed in the US.

How about when people either flat out say something along the lines of 'git good' or they start giving advice that's contradictory(one player on the party says do X while the Other says do Y). Or what if the whole party is telling you you're doing it wrong but then you lookup online how to do it and it thorns out you where right?

 

[Satinavian]

How about when people either flat out say something along the lines of 'git good' or they start giving advice that's contradictory(one player on the party says do X while the Other says do Y). Or what if the whole party is telling you you're doing it wrong but then you lookup online how to do it and it thorns out you where right?

"git good" is obviously not helpful. But the only instance where i have seen anything remotely similar in an PvE MMO was related to a new player fresh out of tutorial and some "get-to-max-level" item which resulted in a crappy build in the hand of a player who never had seen early game contend and knew nothing about his class. And even then the advice was more along the line of "maybe it would be better to make an alt and play the early levels once and learn the game before trying endgame content"

If you get contradictory advice, you know it is probably a difficult issue with several valid paths, something complicated that many experienced players don't really understand or something that is still debated. In all cases it is better looked up later on the internet.

Whole party says one thing and online says differently ? Sorry, never seen that one. Not once. If you are really pugging it is really unprobably to get all people with a wrong minority opinion on a not debated issue who also all happen to be convinced they know this stuff and have the same outlier opinion.