The new Godzilla movie is a rip-off

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Johnny Novgorod

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King Whurdler said:
MinionJoe said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
The thing is the "main" monster doesn't feel main at all. And it's not really a horror movie, it's a disaster movie occasionally trying to pass for horror in some very implausible scenes in which people somehow manage to miss the 300 foot tall monster just around the corner.
Thank you for the heads-up on this movie. It definitely sounds like they were trying for a suspense-building horroreque vibe, and that just doesn't fit the giant-monster genre at all.

Imagine if Pacific Rim showed no Kaiju until the last 1/4 of the film and the remainder was filled with "character development".
Why not? There's no law saying an emphasis on terror doesn't work for a Kaiju film. 'Gojira' did it, and I think most of it holds up fine.
Terror is fine but you can't expect me to believe that these 300 foot tall creatures are as stealthy as killers in a slasher movie, unnoticed by everyone even though they're a few feet away until it's too late (which is the case in one of the most ridiculous scenes in the movie). I have to call bullshit on that. There're a number of times in the movie where these characters should see or at the very least listen the monsters, but fail to do so because the director decided he wanted to go for suspense in that one scene.
 

kasperbbs

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Fine with me. Who wants to watch a giant cgi lizard breaking shit for 123 minutes straight with no opposition? I assume that humans didn't have giant mechs in this one.
 

spacemutant IV

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Comparing the screen time G gets in this movie to what he got in the first movie just doesn't work. You can't make the original Godzilla in our times, and if you did, it would be an indie endavour. This movie does NOT even try to mimick the original Godzilla. The original was about something; this is about nothing.
 

CardinalPiggles

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I can't believe people didn't see this coming honestly.

When I saw the trailer the first thing I thought was BWAAAM. Then the second thing was that the stuff in the trailer is obviously the best the film has to offer so why bother?
 

Almack

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Terror is fine but you can't expect me to believe that these 300 foot tall creatures are as stealthy as killers in a slasher movie, unnoticed by everyone even though they're a few feet away until it's too late (which is the case in one of the most ridiculous scenes in the movie). I have to call bullshit on that. There're a number of times in the movie where these characters should see or at the very least listen the monsters, but fail to do so because the director decided he wanted to go for suspense in that one scene.
I'd just like to point out though that in nature that is something that predators use to there advantage all the time crocodiles and snapping turtles in particular use there large size to sneak up on fish many times smaller than them so the idea that the people in the movie don't notice monsters many times larger than them when they are up close doesnt seem THAT ridiculous. And im pretty sure that hiding in plane sight was done in godzilla vs the sea monster where the characters at a point realize that they havent been climbing over rocks but really a dormant godzilla. So just throwing it out there.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Im guessing in your eyes Jaws is a rip off as well. lol. All the Godzilla movies had tons of crappy story stuff that just built up to the massive fight at the end. Some had tons of enemy monsters but those movies werent that great. This is just setting up the character, in Godzilla 2 (if it gets made) they will hopefully have more of him and maybe the addition of Ghidrah or some other Toho monster.
 

spacemutant IV

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About the screen time argument. I think that it's just an easily comprehensible few words that lend themselves well to those who feel underwhelmed in general (like me); the actual time Godzilla appears on screen is quickly pointed at and blamed for this. But I think that it is actually a mix of little quantity and low quality that make for (some) peoples disappointmend. After some thinking, I know this to be the case for me, and it goes back to the root of the poblem, which I described above, the director trying to be as minimalistic as a movie like this allows him to be, which in my eyes was the wrong way to go. The appearances and fights aren't just short, they are also not as exciting as they could have been.

The best fights in any Godzilla movie I have seen, sadly were coupled with what I tought to be the millennium series' worst overall movie. It was 'Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack' (2001). Godzilla was smart in these fights, vicious, cunning. I did not expect him to be like that in this new movie, but still, I expected something more than what I got.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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SonOfVoorhees said:
Im guessing in your eyes Jaws is a rip off as well.
You're guessing poorly. Jaws has three very well-rounded characters bonding and getting on each other's nerves that are nonetheless united on a quest to kill a shark. The shark means a very different thing to each of them, and each is driven by a wholly different motive. The shark haunts the entire movie by providing a series of attacks and false alarms that drive the plot, establish a memorable motif and set up the third act, by which point he has killed four times.

I don't know if you've seen the new Godzilla movie, but he does NOT drive the plot. He's not the central threat. He's not A threat. He's a big question mark of nothing, uneventfully swimming across the ocean, carefully avoiding toppling the military ocean liners, ready to end the movie. Nobody is awed or scared by him. None of the things the characters do reflect on Godzilla or even depend on Godzilla. Ken Watanabe's character says "Let them fight" (Godzilla vs. MUTOs), except they don't even do that, the military are stupid and want to bomb the motherfuckers some more. The conflict of the movie lies in the threat of two MUTOs. This isn't even an opinion. Carefully look at what the characters in the movie say and do, and you'll see Godzilla doesn't factor in any of it. MUTO causes earthquake, MUTO escapes Monarch, MUTO wreaks Hawaii, other MUTO tears toxic waste, levels Vegas and goes to Frisco, other MUTO assaults military convoy, both MUTOs mate. The characters think, act and react entirely around this. They are victimized by this or survive this.

So when you conjecture that Godzilla is the same as the shark from Jaws because we don't see a proper body shot until the end, also think about set up, character, motive, conflict and action.

This is just setting up the character, in Godzilla 2 (if it gets made) they will hopefully have more of him and maybe the addition of Ghidrah or some other Toho monster.
This here. This is the problem. This mindset that a movie can have a pass for underachievement because the makers are saving the good stuff for the next movie. No. Do a proper movie that can stand alone as the best movie you could've made based on the premise you had. Don't do a mediocre movie in the hopes that you'll be able to hook the audience with the promise of "everything you didn't get in the first movie" when you do a second. How easy it is to top the previous instalment when you weren't even trying in the first place. How easy to make a trilogy of increasingly good movies when your paradigm is to make them "a little less bad" every two years.
 

chiggerwood

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It's Gareth Edwards, so I can't say I'm surprised. When i first heard he was directing this movie my heart sank, looks like it was for a good reason.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Lacey said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Terror is fine but you can't expect me to believe that these 300 foot tall creatures are as stealthy as killers in a slasher movie, unnoticed by everyone even though they're a few feet away until it's too late (which is the case in one of the most ridiculous scenes in the movie).
If you're talking about...
The MUTO on the train track, then that wasn't ridiculous at all. It's a fairly commonly used trope in movies (there's probably a TV tropes page for it) where characters realise that the rock they're standing on/something in the background is actually a giant monster that's been lying still. It's to emphasise the fact that the monster is so big that you don't even see it when it's up close.

That scene takes place at night, so it's dark as fuck, the MUTO is sitting completely still and the characters have their backs to it anyway. Three very good reasons to explain why they didn't see it.
Fair enough, but

When did the MUTO attack the train? How come it's suddenly in flames? Why didn't Ford or the audience hear anything?
 

Draconalis

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Is it a spoiler if I tell you Godzilla is barely in his own movie? The movie lasts 123 minutes and Godzilla shows up for the final 30, maybe 35 minutes. Like, properly show up. There're some seconds of "fake stock footage" in the intro, and then he spends the majority of the movie underwater, swimming uneventfully towards the plot for 90 minutes. I'm not even kidding. The real conflict comes from the destruction two other kaiju wreak during the movie. Godzilla is a freaking deus ex machina in his own movie.

Is it a spoiler if I'm denouncing false advertising? I don't think so. I'm not asking anyone to boycott the movie or anything silly like that, but just so you know, Godzilla's barely in it. He's awesome and yadda yadda, but I still feel ripped off. There's no good reason for doing this other than somehow filling out a two hour long movie.
Do you honestly believe that was 35 minutes?!

I mean... maybe it you count all the shots were he's on TV fighting in the back ground... but seriouly... that movie was a terrible dissapointment.

I expected a human element to be present... like... 65-35. The monsters don't usually take up alot of screen time in these sorts of movies... but fuck! Everything happened in the background! And what didn't happen in the background happened in like... slow motion.

Also... it really bothers me that they retconed Godzilla's radiation breath to be fire. Since these things all feed on radiation, if they hadn't retconned it, the finale would have been like a momma bird feeding her baby.


Can the Japanese just please stop giving others the chance with Godzilla?

Edit:

Don't mind me, I'm just quoting this, because it points out everything that was wrong, and is fairly spoiler free.

spacemutant IV said:
Just saw it, and I think it's mediocre.

I had heard about the directors previous big movie, Monsters, and avoided it. I knew exactly what the reviews and opinions about that movie were referring to, that it was about hinting at these creatures more than giving them a lot of screen time, and I knew I had no interest in seeing that, so I didn't. But this is Godzilla, I did want to see that, and here I see the same thing happening that I had previously avoided subjecting myself to. I don't think it works for this movie. You can tell that this is something that the guy is treating as an artform, he prides himself in his skill (and I think it really does take skill), to underwhelm the audience ever so little, in an attempt to break out of the race for ever bigger spectacle, and to give more weight to that which ends up being seen. But this is not what I want to see in a Godzilla movie.

The final battle happens at night, and I think this was a bad choice. The thing about these creatures is that they are huge, but when you can't see a lot of the city around them that the battle is happening in, then you lose your sense of scale, and I think the monsters were a bit wasted here. The scene before the battle, where Godzilla shows up in the Bay, and the one after the battle is over, where he is again seen in broad daylight, are much better, because you do get a sense of how huge he is. Unfortunately, the first of these scenes is very short, and the latter only shows him leaving for the ocean again.

I did not like his design all that much, though that will be subject to taste. I thought that his face was a bit too expressive/overanimated, and I guess I expect big things to be slower and all around more rigid, so this made him a bit less believable, or so I felt. Maybe I also wasn't quite convinced by the CGI. Same thing applies to his chest, which was bulking a lot with his breathing, and I thought was a bit too much.

The story barely even exists. The frame is all coincidence, making these creatures show up wherever our main character happens to be, or where his family happens to be, and everything else that happens is completely pointless. The human plan for dealing with the situation doesn't factor in at all, which, if you insist on making the movie about the humans more than the creatures, it should.

Then there is the blatant fan service, which directly contradicts earlier claims that this movie would treat Godzilla as a force of nature. It does not; it treats him as an overgrown Raptor Jesus. Godzilla is our saviour, his only purpose is to kill the bad bad monsters which do us harm. Why? They could have made it that he eats them after he kills them, but he doesn't. It doesn't make a lot of sense, although there was a scene of boring exposition which I used to go take a piss, maybe there they explained that he hunts and kills these creatures out of some reflex, as some animals instinctively kill each other, because they compete for the same resources, or to protect their young. But even if that was the case, when his reasons are only talked of, and not shown, then they are simply justification for a script that was already written and had holes in it, rather than an actual plot point.

There was too much goodwill for Godzilla, and too much empathy was asked of the audience to bring to the table, without justification in the movie itself. This is also fan service, done in a bad way. He is a giant lizard that happens to fight other giant creatures, and preferrably in our puny little human cities. There is absolutely no reason for trying to make it so emotional when he goes down one moment, and rises up again in the next. It is embarassing, actually. After he finished his opponents, a caption on the news read, "Has the king of monsters saved our city?" After some gentle stroking and buildup, I guess this is the moment where we the audience are supposed to cum in our pants.

The music was a mess of unrelated tunes.
Edit x2:

spacemutant IV said:
Comparing the screen time G gets in this movie to what he got in the first movie just doesn't work. You can't make the original Godzilla in our times, and if you did, it would be an indie endavour. This movie does NOT even try to mimick the original Godzilla. The original was about something; this is about nothing.
I'd also like to add, that the original Godzilla was a horror. This movie is not.

Godzilla hasn't really been a horror since Godzilla 1985.

And he certainly isn't horror in any movie with a monster he fights. He's even more than the lesser of two evils, he's the hero.
 

Zontar

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Sounds to me like it's Godzilla 85 (the original, not the Dr. Pepper one) only without the Cold War part and with other monsters. Honestly, of the reviews I've seen this is the only one which has been generally negative, and given the past movies in the franchise there's nothing in it which screams "fans won't like it" to me.

What'll really be interesting is when Toho makes its own again(and lets face it there's always going to be another one ahead of us) if they're going to try and weld this movie into the overall cannon like they did with American Godzilla in the 90s, just ignore it completely or use it as the jumping off point for a new cannon.
 

Bertylicious

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Yeah, it was pretty terrible. Whenever Godzilla and the MUTOs would be getting down to it the scene would cut away to some kid lying on a couch or a dude catching a train. When they finally did show the fight it was shrouded in darkness and brief.

This film is not a Godzilla movie, it is a disaster movie that features Godzilla. It's not even like the first movie, it has more in common with Gamera as the big G is cast as a hero rather than a walking disaster spawned of man's hubris.

My only hope is that Toho made some decent money out of this and will now make some proper films.
 

LostCrusader

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I think my admission price was pretty much worth it when Godzilla barfs atomic fire down a MUTO's throat.
 

pearcinator

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The main thing I didn't like was;

That they killed off Bryan Cranston's character (in an unspectacular way, a crane or something fell on the walkway he was on) about half an hour in and he was the best character in the movie. The rest focused on Aaron Taylor-Johnson who had vacant stares most of the movie like he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing.

Godzilla being in only 30 minutes didn't bother me much but my mates didn't like it at all. I will admit, there were a lot of fake-outs where you see Godzilla and the MUTO about to fight and then it goes to another scene and we don't see Godzilla fight until the end of the movie. Kind of a cop-out in a way.
 

FPLOON

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Well... I wouldn't call myself a true Godzilla fan... (since, outside of watching James Rolfe's "Godzillathon", the closest I've seen to the movies were the 1954 original, the dumb 1998 version, and the one with DESTROYAH in it...) I actually enjoyed this version...

Granted, I didn't like what happened to Bryan's character or how no one really noticed that one "female" MUTO coming their way (let alone where it was to begin with, I guess), but for the most part it was a pretty decent movie overall... It's kinda weird hearing all of these "super" negative responses to the movie, but then again I forgot that we're SUPPOSE to always hate any American takes on anything non-American-related, anyway...

With that said, I still hope they do make a sequel to this movie, despite all of the pending negativity that's sure to follow regardless... *sighs* And to think at the theater I was at, everyone was applauding when the atomic breath (of fire) was unleashed... (I wonder how many of those people were just clapping to seem "polite" or something?)