The PC Version of Dark Souls 2 is lazy as hell

[Chris Tian]

Well was it a borderline reskin of a game that released a year ago that had about 1000 people working on it, cause thats how triple A works.

Thats not a particularly good argument either, because it basically was. It is almost the exact same game as its predecessor, just more of everything. Dont get me wrong since its predecessor was a pretty good game that ist not a bad thing.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Well was it a borderline reskin of a game that released a year ago that had about 1000 people working on it, cause thats how triple A works.

Thats not a particularly good argument either, because it basically was. It is almost the exact same game as its predecessor, just more of everything. Dont get me wrong since its predecessor was a pretty good game that ist not a bad thing.

Isn't that what pretty much all game sequels are? Basically the same thing as the previous game, but with new stuff?

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Souls 2 has a completely new map (no levels reused from the original), completely new enemies and enemy models, new weapons, new armor sets, new characters, new music, and some new mechanics. No no, you're right, it's the exact same game as the original.

 

[Vault101]

I do get what you said, you're just being a stubborn child. It is completely irrelevant whether or not the game works with the mouse and keyboard, the simple fact is every single third person ARPG will play better with a controller than a mouse and keyboard. Some games play a bit better in terms of mouse and keyboard than others with mouse and keyboard, some play a bit worse, but one simple fact is that a controller will always provide you a greater experience. You come on here and ***** about a subpar control scheme that no one with a brain uses and you will be met with posts such as the first few.

thats not entirly true

Fallout 3/NV, Tomb Raider or even DMC I prefer on a K/M because its my prefered controll option, the only game thats felt problematic has been sleeping dogs

 

[Augustine]

As for me, I am 120(exactly!) hours in, and happily continuing playing the game. Nearing my third full playthrough, and almost got every achievement(except the last 3, realistically achievable only in the NG++).
Loved the first one, despite it being rough around the edges.
Was afraid about the fate of the sequel - but my fears have been laid to rest by now. I love just about everything about this game.
As a piece of art or fiction, the original is better, but as a video game - DS2 is a superior experience to my taste. Never cared much to do NG+ in the first one(still put in over 200 hours, I think), but in the second game, I am already finishing my second playthrough.

Expecting devs to create keyboard controls for this game to rival the controller is... Unrealistic, to put in mildly.
Just like FPS M&KB users will always tear controller users a new one, so will controller users rip a new one to KB&M in DS.
Sure you can be stubborn about it, and hammer in nails with a wooden spoon, but why?

As for durability - system is great! Durability actually matters now - in the last game it only became an issue if you spam sword magic attacks. This time, any hit of the walls/floors gives a big hit of durability. You actually have to have a backup weapon now. Some of the very powerful weapons in DS2 are balanced by limited durability(looking at you, Great Club!). This makes you aware where and how you swing. Early on, I had to call off my expedition into a zone, because I had low durability and never thought about making back ups - which is a good lesson. You may even have some uber weapon early on, somehow - but now you have to be mindful of when you want to use it, and when to hold it back.
Further it balances piercing/lunge attacks, with wide sweeps. Lunges rarely hit walls so they make such weapons last longer.
And don't get me started on the DS1's repair mechanics! It was the most annoying thing in the game - every time I rest, I'd have to go through a bunch of menus to repair EVERY single piece of gear. What a bloody waste of time!
I had to spend an attunement slot just so I always have Repair spell - otherwise I'd snap and shoot myself/monitor, rather than go through repair process AGAIN.

Durability damage is also now an occasionally useful PvP thing. You can even build a char around wrecking gear - which is neat.

 

[Chris Tian]

Expecting devs to create keyboard controls for this game to rival the controller is... Unrealistic, to put in mildly.
Just like FPS M&KB users will always tear controller users a new one, so will controller users rip a new one to KB&M in DS.
Sure you can be stubborn about it, and hammer in nails with a wooden spoon, but why?

People telling me stuff like this, as if it is inherintely impossible to make perfectly fine M+KB controls for a game like Dark souls 2 really confuse me. You are somehow ignoring that the vast majority part of other games get it right and Dark Soul 1 itslef has perfectly fine M+KB controls by no. How is it still unreasonable to expect the same thing of DS2?

As for durability - system is great! Durability actually matters now

I had the exact opposite experience. I was literally just once, in 100+ hours of gameplay, confronted with a "careful your weapon will break soon" warning. I never carried backup weapons or botherd to even look how much durability a weapon has. I never held back any weapon because of fear of it breaking oder anything the like. I just thought "the other repair system workes finde, every now and then you had to take a bit of care of your equipment, seems realistic enough, why waste recourses on changing that". In the end it wasnt a big issue for me either way, it just made me wonder.

Isn't that what pretty much all game sequels are? Basically the same thing as the previous game, but with new stuff?

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Souls 2 has a completely new map (no levels reused from the original), completely new enemies and enemy models, new weapons, new armor sets, new characters, new music, and some new mechanics. No no, you're right, it's the exact same game as the original.

Like I said its more of everything Dark Souls and that is not a bad thing. They just didn't try to improve on anything major, the story is litterally exactly the same and most level, while not a litteral copy and paste, still look very very similar to the ones from DS1.

Again, I liked both games so I am not trying to say all this is bad, its just that Eve Charm was trying to tell me the big difference between DS and triple AAA title is that there is a bigger difference between prequel and sequel than in the yearly AC releases or the like and thats, well, just not completly true.

 

[Augustine]

People telling me stuff like this, as if it is inherintely impossible to make perfectly fine M+KB controls for a game like Dark souls 2 really confuse me. You are somehow ignoring that the vast majority part of other games get it right and Dark Soul 1 itslef has perfectly fine M+KB controls by no. How is it still unreasonable to expect the same thing of DS2?

I'll just come out and say it, then: "Yes. It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls games and their like."
This is the same thing as realistic flight sims - you CAN, theoretically, play them with KB&M, but if you are serious about the game, you would invest in a flight-stick (at least).

And by the way, early on, I did play Dark Souls with KB&M with some success(after heavily customizing them on my own). But I quickly learned that the controller is 100% way to go - bought it, and never regretted it. Besides, there are HUNDREDS of games on Steam designed specifically for controllers. Dark Souls is hardly an exception.

 

[Chris Tian]

I'll just come out and say it, then: "Yes. It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls games and their like."

The thing is, that statement is 100% subjective. I dont like controlers and I could never ever get used to them, even with games that are suposed to be sooo much better with a controller. I like the precision and quick reaction of a mouse and I like having dozends of keys at my fingertips.

I have played the last DS and other games with KB+M and those controls didn't only rival the controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for me, it outshadowed it by far.

The flaws in the controls of DS2 are not some inherent difference or gap between worlds or some other thing that no developer could overcome. The KB+M crontrols of DS2 have two very specific and very deep flaws, they don't exist in other games, they don't even exist in the first DS, so why are you trying to tell me that "It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls" when I have seen end experienced otherwise?

 

[Bombiz]

The thing is this whole thing is subjective. I when dark souls 2 came out on pc everyone and there mother was complaining about the Mouse and keyboard controls while I was sitting here having a grand old time using them. Though it is the general consensus that using a controller is the way to play.

 

[Tortilla the Hun]

Congrats OP, you may be the only person in the entire world who would even attempt to play a Dark Souls game with a mouse and keyboard. Seriously I would not be mad if you had made an "Am I The Only One..." thread because you may in fact be the only one.

Uhh...erm...ah...

I may have attempted...

But I quickly realized how ineffective it was and quickly got myself a controller and it vastly improved my experience with the game thus far. The only thing I have to master now is not surpassing the death quota on a regular basis.

 

[Chris Tian]

The only thing I have to master now is not surpassing the death quota on a regular basis.

Does this mean you struggle with dying to often? and did you play DS1?

 

[Rattja]

*Snip*

Right.. I just want to give this a shot, even though many have tried already.
See, about the m/kb thing, it's kinda like playing a RTS game with a controller and complaining that they did not make is so you could do ctrl groups 1-10.
Sure there may be a way to do this, but it may turn out to be really weird to play with.

Another thing is that if you know for a fact that about 90% or more will use a controller, it's just logical to focus on that right? Why spend a lot of time and money on a input method that hardly anyone will use?

I get where you are coming from, but the sad part is that you are in the 10% group, and you won't get the same attention.

Also, I'm getting a bit fed up of this "PC=m/kb and consoles=controller" They have both been able to handle both forms for input for years now, both should be considered "standard".

All that being said, this is PC we are talking about, who cares if they didn't make the m/kb work perfectly, I'm sure there is a mod out there that fixes that for you. Or a mod that changes the key instructions or something.
If no such mod exist that may be an indicator of either how few people actually care about this, or how hard it is to do.

Now stop trying to play golf with a baseball bat and be glad they made it so that you could play the game on a PC at all.

 

[Jandau]

I'm torn over this thread...

On one hand, I want to slap all the apologists saying "Porting is hard", "What did you expect?" and such, as this is bullshit. Porting isn't THAT big of a deal, tons of companies don't seem to have that much trouble with it. And while "It's their first time!" was a kind of a reasonable excuse, this time around it's not. Admitting that a studio dropped the ball in one aspect doesn't mean everything sucks now, it just means they fucked up one aspect.

But on the other hand, the OP is being overly dramatic. While the port is kinda shoddy, it's miles ahead of the first game. I tried the first DS with K&M and it took me around two minutes before I straight up Alt-F4 out of there. This time around, the controls are serviceable. Yes, clumsy in some aspects, but not atrocious. It's still poor work, but it's the difference between getting a sandwitch with slightly stale bread and getting one with poop and cocroaches - it's not very good, but you sure don't miss the roaches.

All in all, it's a poor port, but at least it's not an unmitigated disaster like the first one. I do wish they'd included button prompts for K&M, though. That was just lazy...

 

[Augustine]

I'll just come out and say it, then: "Yes. It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls games and their like."

The thing is, that statement is 100% subjective. I dont like controlers and I could never ever get used to them, even with games that are suposed to be sooo much better with a controller. I like the precision and quick reaction of a mouse and I like having dozends of keys at my fingertips.

I have played the last DS and other games with KB+M and those controls didn't only rival the controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for me, it outshadowed it by far.

The flaws in the controls of DS2 are not some inherent difference or gap between worlds or some other thing that no developer could overcome. The KB+M crontrols of DS2 have two very specific and very deep flaws, they don't exist in other games, they don't even exist in the first DS, so why are you trying to tell me that "It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls" when I have seen end experienced otherwise?

I disagree. It is an objective statement when I say the game was designed for a controller. Fundamentally. Controls were largely the same since Demon's Souls. This is part of the design of the game.

KB&M lends itself naturally to things like MMO, RTS, FPS. Sure, you can play those with a controller, but it would be an inferior means of control. Reverse it true for some other games/genres.
KB&M, as the matter of fact, were not designed as gaming peripherals - it should be obvious. That's the role they took on as computers developed... But I digress.

Is it absolutely impossible? No, hypothetically not. It is improbable, however.
You said it again and again - you loathe controllers for some reason. That's a bias. We can't help you with that. You are making a choice and you have to live with the consequences. The game's not at fault.

FYI, I just checked the official system requirements for the game - it lists controller as "recommended" hardware. That's a clue. In light of that, its the same argument if someone tried to run the game on system below recommended minimum specs, then turned around to criticize the game that it doesn't run properly.

 

[Kukakkau]

Just because they sold me an unacceptable product before its in no way ok for them to sell me a "only somewhat acceptable" product now, especially if the first product was fixed.

Okay, I was trying to follow your argument here but you would never have finished an "unacceptable product", this is getting too dramatic.

Now you mentioned the first game which means you must have known what the pc controls might be like, you should have been prepared for xbox controller prompts and the like and known it's a game that really works well on a gamepad.

I won't demand you use a gamepad but calling the whole version "lazy" and an "unacceptable product" for these reasons is just too much.

 

[A-D.]

I never understand why everyone is hammering on the game for having to be played with a controller, or how the keyboard/mouse controls are terrible. I have a controller, one im rather used to, mind you its a third-party product but its essentially the same as the old playstation dualshock controllers. Here's the thing, certain actions might be more..easy or faster to pull off, since your fingers and thumbs are all close to the relevant buttons to press for specific actions.

What it doesnt have is a third thumb to allow you to adjust camera beyond whatever you locked onto or move it with any kind of fine-control a mouse would allow you. I have so far played Dark Souls for 130 hours, finished it twice. I have had no problem or lack of comfort from playing with mouse and keyboard, mind you i had to rebind some keys, interact being q, use item being e, lock-on being r and even switching the left and right attacks to the opposite mouse-buttons (index finger > middle finger). Point being i have not experienced this "input delay" mainly because no build i have had so far had an attack-speed over what i could click, as well as the ability to just spam the mousebutton until the finger broke given you have to dodge, block and backstep to avoid being hit.

I have yet to see anyone go into pvp or pve and stand in front of any mob and just exchange punches, that just doesnt happen. What i see is alot of in-and-out fights, close in quickly, hit and retreat to avoid the counter, even in PvE. Is it a "bad" port, well yes but thats because its a port. Any port, no matter how well it is ported, by definition is bad because it wasnt made for whatever platform its ported to. The question is whether the port is good enough that you can ignore that it is at the end of the day just a port. Dark Souls 2 allows that, the controls are rebindable (albeit you are limited in key-choices) and responsive enough to make the game work.

Everything else is a matter of what you are used to. Im very good with mouse and keyboard as such "terrible" doesnt apply for me because i am utterly used to both input-devices. If you play most games with a controller, well no shit sherlock, but you are going to be used to playing with a controller.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Think I'll stick to playing it with my pad on my PC, while enjoying a dark souls in 100th
best all round experience.

Btw, as you mentioned buttons. my mouse has 20 buttons and I can map them anyway I want for any game

 

[Chris Tian]

I disagree. It is an objective statement when I say the game was designed for a controller.

Well, its just you didn't say that. What you said was:

I'll just come out and say it, then: "Yes. It IS inherently impossible to create KB&M controls that would rival controller in terms of ease and effectiveness for Dark Souls games and their like."

Right.. I just want to give this a shot, even though many have tried already.
See, about the m/kb thing, it's kinda like playing a RTS game with a controller and complaining that they did not make is so you could do ctrl groups 1-10.
Sure there may be a way to do this, but it may turn out to be really weird to play with.

Hello user2374 trying to tell me it is inherently impossible to play Dark Souls comfortably with KB+M.

I have played Dark Souls for hundrets of hours with KB+M, the controls are tight, fast, responsive, precise, comfortable and all around pretty much perfect. That is one thing I absolutely love about DS's combat.

So why on earth keep people trying to tell me that this is absolutely and inherently impossible and I have to live with the flaws DS2 has now, WHEN FROM SOFTWARE THEMSELFS HAVE PROFEN BEFORE THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO!

I think that stems from the simple fact that 90% of the people here trying to tell me that, have never ever played any Dark Souls game or the like with KB+M and don't have the slightest clue about how they play for someone who is comfortable with that controll device.

That was just lazy...

Thats basically my whole point, the PC port is worse than it had to be because of lazyness.

 

[Tortilla the Hun]

The only thing I have to master now is not surpassing the death quota on a regular basis.

Does this mean you struggle with dying to often? and did you play DS1?

I don't struggle with dying often. It happens pretty easily.

And no, I haven't. I heard the PC port of DS1 was handled even more poorly than the DS2 port and figured i'd just jump straight to the 2nd, though now with a controller.

 

[Augustine]

Hello user2374 trying to tell me it is inherently impossible to play Dark Souls comfortably with KB+M.

I have played Dark Souls for hundrets of hours with KB+M, the controls are tight, fast, responsive, precise, comfortable and all around pretty much perfect. That is one thing I absolutely love about DS's combat.

Didn't I demonstrate that developers of both DS1 and DS2 put controller as a recommended hardware for the game? I don't know why you want to argue around that.
I'm tempted to challenge you to a duel in DS1 to illustrate in practice that controller beats KBnM, but frankly, I'm just not that vested in the subject (and I'd rather be doing other things right now).

 

[barbzilla]

I'm torn over this thread...

On one hand, I want to slap all the apologists saying "Porting is hard", "What did you expect?" and such, as this is bullshit. Porting isn't THAT big of a deal, tons of companies don't seem to have that much trouble with it. And while "It's their first time!" was a kind of a reasonable excuse, this time around it's not. Admitting that a studio dropped the ball in one aspect doesn't mean everything sucks now, it just means they fucked up one aspect.

But on the other hand, the OP is being overly dramatic. While the port is kinda shoddy, it's miles ahead of the first game. I tried the first DS with K&M and it took me around two minutes before I straight up Alt-F4 out of there. This time around, the controls are serviceable. Yes, clumsy in some aspects, but not atrocious. It's still poor work, but it's the difference between getting a sandwitch with slightly stale bread and getting one with poop and cocroaches - it's not very good, but you sure don't miss the roaches.

All in all, it's a poor port, but at least it's not an unmitigated disaster like the first one. I do wish they'd included button prompts for K&M, though. That was just lazy...

Thank you for saying this so I didn't have to. Sometimes people need to step back and find the middle ground. Did From drop the ball on the port a bit, sure, was it the end of the game, nope.