The PC Western RPG Revival

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

Got to ask, what was so bad about Shadowrun? Picked it up last week and have really enjoyed it as far as I've got.

Well, there are several aspects of it I didn't like. For example:

- Lacking sidequests. The few that are there can usually be completed very quickly.
- Inability to backtrack. Missed something? Tough luck.
- Highly linear. Objectives can usually only be completed in one way. Sure, some encounters can be avoided, but after that, it's back onto the railroad.
- Weapons are all really samey, incremental improvements with no unique characteristics. Best shotgun is the first one with bigger numbers. Same goes for every other weapon type.
- Character upgrades in general felt like they mattered little. With some exceptions, specializing in one thing didn't really make you that much more effective at it than a non-specialist.
- Bleh characters for the most part. I only liked Cherry and Mr. Kluwe.
- Way too obvious villains. I could pick out the who the big bads were from the moment they turned up.

 

[Xaryn Mar]

Got to ask, what was so bad about Shadowrun? Picked it up last week and have really enjoyed it as far as I've got.

Well, there are several aspects of it I didn't like. For example:

- Lacking sidequests. The few that are there can usually be completed very quickly.
- Inability to backtrack. Missed something? Tough luck.
- Highly linear. Objectives can usually only be completed in one way. Sure, some encounters can be avoided, but after that, it's back onto the railroad.
- Weapons are all really samey, incremental improvements with no unique characteristics. Best shotgun is the first one with bigger numbers. Same goes for every other weapon type.
- Character upgrades in general felt like they mattered little. With some exceptions, specializing in one thing didn't really make you that much more effective at it than a non-specialist.
- Bleh characters for the most part. I only liked Cherry and Mr. Kluwe.
- Way too obvious villains. I could pick out the who the big bads were from the moment they turned up.

Remember that the campaign in Shadowrun returns was not meant to be the be all-end all of the game.
What they made was an engine that players could make modules for and the stock campagn was just made to show some of what could be done.
There are quite a lot of modules on steam workshop at the moment although I haven't had the time to try any of them yet.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

What they made was an engine that players could make modules for and the stock campagn was just made to show some of what could be done.

I know, but I think they failed at that. If their goal was to show off the possibilities of their engine and the setting, the blandness that is the main campaign is IMO a poor showing indeed. It didn't leave me excited for more and better. What I've played of the user-generated content has done little to change my mind.

Mind you, I am extremely biased. I used to play the tabletop rpg and we had an incredibly good DM, so my standards for anything Shadowrun are pretty much impossibly high.

 

[Madman123456]

you have a grossly negative view of that time period.
I suggest you read a bit more about it. The conditions you speak of sound like 30 year war germanies and believe me when i say that that time is not representative of medieval times in general.
And your contempt of the population is also vexing: yes, they could not fckn shower every morning and yes you tend to get dirty doing WORK but they did not fckn walk around in their own filth.

The conditions where quite bad at times and some places. "big" towns had no sewer system and people where indeed throwing out their waste, sometimes using special alcoves in the upper floors of the houses. In some cases you did your business directly over a hole in the floor above a back alley. There where gutters made to have all that crap float away but they got clogged quickly because people threw all their waste in there, like spoiled food and occasionally dead animals.

The Streets where literally overflowing with crap, among other things and of course they where still used. Sometimes they accumulated a 34 centimeter thick layer of dark brown material on top of the cobblestone leftover from the construction of some of the houses.
I doubt they had a river of crap flowing through the town, it was more likely that people laid down a crappy stones to make a half decent road that later became a "dirt" road over the centuries.

 

[GonzoGamer]

I actually kind of prefer the JRPGs of that era more; like the Phantasy Star games. Now I would say I prefer WRPGs; Fallout 3 is probably my favorite from this past generation.

Uhhheeaaghmmmaybe.

If nothing else, after being spoiled by years of pretty graphics and voiced characters it's going to be a struggle for me to enjoy isometric graphics, entirely text-based dialogue and whatnot.

Yea, I kind of have a hard time going back to old games for this reason. It's one thing if your playing it on your phone or a portable but if I'm at home I want to play something a bit more spectacular on the big screen.
The purists would probably have my head for this but I would like to see some of the old rpgs rebooted with current engines and graphics. Like I'm really surprised that someone hasn't taken the GECK from the new Fallout games and re-made the original Fallout games. That could be really cool. Same thing with Phantasy Star; I'm not a huge fan of PSO but if they took that mechanic and put it in a huge diverse open world like the originals, it would be a lot of fun.

 

[In Search of Username]

Have you guys played Age of Decadence? Definitely seems to fit the bill of what you're talking about here, very hardcore, old-school RPG currently in early access. It's great.

And I am SUPER-excited for Project Eternity. Still holding out for an enhanced Planescape too.

 

[The Madman]

If even half the games being released next year live up to their potential, then 2014 is going to be an amazing year to be a PC gamer. I'm really looking forward to it!

Kind of off topic, but could I mention since Dreamfall's naming scheme has gone
The Longest Journey
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
Dreamfall: Chapters

and now Torment's is going
Planescape: Torment
Torment: Tides of Numeria

I really hope the next Dreamfall game is called The Chronicles: Chapters
And the next Torment game should be called Tides of Numeria: Eternity

Ragnar Tornquist has already said what the next game in the series will be should Chapters prove successful enough, it'll be called The Longest Journey: Home. If you've played the series then the naming scheme alone should give away what its plot will be.

 

[deathbydeath]

This guy had the right idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6KxCSWGRu4

Ah, Razorfist. I love that guy. Not only is he relatively eloquent and has a voice well suited for the types of videos he produces, but he's (usually) completely fucking wrong every single time. He uploaded that video 2-3 months after the Kickstarter ended yet only mentions about a fifth of the total raised by the Kickstarter alone, not counting the additional Paypal funds. He ignores the numerous statements by Obsidian employees claiming fault for the end products. Chris Avellone said he regretted not making sure their 6-month extension for KotOR 2 was signed, but he also said his vision of the game was too wide and he should cut the cast down and removed some of the minigame expansions. New Vegas was playtested by the same people that QA'd Fallout 3 (and we all know how that went down) while simultaneously pushing bits of the code harder than F3 did and being programmed by people who had no hands in the creation of the engine. Feargus Urquhart, the CEO(?) of Obsidian Entertainment, said that Alpha Protocol had no design document. Razorfist also ignored the fact that the people who put money into P:E would have enjoyed the game and miscellaneous extras at the price they gave despite the expected technical problems.

Also, his math is wrong. He said people will pay for P:E twice, but I only paid about one half of a time (at the level I backed, I got a boxed copy and a Steam key).

 

[Tom_green_day]

I came here for Western RPGs as in cowboys and cactuses and stuff. Are there any of these?

 

[Meinos Kaen]

This guy had the right idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6KxCSWGRu4

Ah, Razorfist. I love that guy. Not only is he relatively eloquent and has a voice well suited for the types of videos he produces, but he's (usually) completely fucking wrong every single time. He uploaded that video 2-3 months after the Kickstarter ended yet only mentions about a fifth of the total raised by the Kickstarter alone, not counting the additional Paypal funds. He ignores the numerous statements by Obsidian employees claiming fault for the end products. Chris Avellone said he regretted not making sure their 6-month extension for KotOR 2 was signed, but he also said his vision of the game was too wide and he should cut the cast down and removed some of the minigame expansions. New Vegas was playtested by the same people that QA'd Fallout 3 (and we all know how that went down) while simultaneously pushing bits of the code harder than F3 did and being programmed by people who had no hands in the creation of the engine. Feargus Urquhart, the CEO(?) of Obsidian Entertainment, said that Alpha Protocol had no design document. Razorfist also ignored the fact that the people who put money into P:E would have enjoyed the game and miscellaneous extras at the price they gave despite the expected technical problems.

Also, his math is wrong. He said people will pay for P:E twice, but I only paid about one half of a time (at the level I backed, I got a boxed copy and a Steam key).

I think you messed up your quoting friend, I posted the link not Zhukov, might wanna edit that or is it just displayed wrongly at my end?

Wrong or not, this guy is freaking entertaining! Sub!

Anyway, returning to in-topic, I've been welcoming this return of Western RPGs if only for the fact that it's been so, so, so long since they put writing and story before anything else in an RPG. I thought the tide would turn after Dragon Age Origins -I freaking loved that game-, but alas, Bioware decided that DA needed to become Mass Effect with chainmail. So, when Wasteland 2, and then Torment, and Project Eternity, and Project Phoenix, and others started appearing... Call me a kid in the toy store.

Seriously, though, it's very evident that most RPG developers have lost their way. Back when graphics could only do so much, writing took about 70% of the merit for turning what was once a nice genre in one of the most famous and popular. Then, when computers and consoles started pulling out shiny baubles at will, it's like they punched writing in the stomach and left it to die of clamyidia in a filthy bathroom.

 

[deathbydeath]

I think you messed up your quoting friend, I posted the link not Zhukov, might wanna edit that or is it just displayed wrongly at my end?

I don't even know how that happened. It's been edited accordingly, but that is one of the stranger mistakes I've seen/made.

 

[spartandude]

I came here for Western RPGs as in cowboys and cactuses and stuff. Are there any of these?

I think the closest you'll get (at least as far as i know) are the Fallout (not #3) and the Wasteland games.

 

[aozgolo]

Rather surprised by the hate levelled at Obsidian, I thought Fallout: New Vegas and KoTOR2 were great games, buggy perhaps, but they were certainly playable. Plus I think everyone is neglecting the talent involved at Obsidian is responsible for some of the greatest PC Role-playing games like the original Fallout series and Icewind Dale series. Whether or not they are good at the modern genre of CRPGs is a rather moot point I would think as they have a proven track record with the exact type of RPG they are currently making with Project Eternity.

As for all you western lovers, yes that would be amazing, but I don't recall there ever being a lot of western RPGs in the past, so the "revival" portion of the title should have given that part away

Still a bit surprised nobody has any thoughts on Shroud of the Avatar yet.

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I am pessimistic as always. All these kick-starter games mean nothing. It wont start claiming victory till we get our first AAA CRPG which isn't going to happen because the big companies aren't going to make a game that is leaves out the console market. I already know, from a few games that monitor player choices, what kind of people the console kids are. Sadly, games are being made with them in mind and I don't see that ever changing.

 

[The Madman]

Rather surprised by the hate levelled at Obsidian, I thought Fallout: New Vegas and KoTOR2 were great games, buggy perhaps, but they were certainly playable. Plus I think everyone is neglecting the talent involved at Obsidian is responsible for some of the greatest PC Role-playing games like the original Fallout series and Icewind Dale series. Whether or not they are good at the modern genre of CRPGs is a rather moot point I would think as they have a proven track record with the exact type of RPG they are currently making with Project Eternity.

It happens anytime someone mentions Obsidian in these forums, regular as clockwork. Zhukov will make a snarky comment and someone will link that stupid video. Pretty much every time. I usually just ignore it these days, although if it blows up I've got a notepad written up with my defense of Obsidian to be copy and pasted just in case.

Saves time and effort.

 

[nogitsune]

I'll be honest that I'm keeping a skeptical eye on these upcoming games. I have a feeling that while I loved the RPGs of yesteryear, my tastes seemed to have diverged from their target audience and while I love exploring; an RPG aspect that only Bethesda seems ready, willing and able to focus on; The fans seem to cry out for choices and consequences; something that I don't really care about, for they never were able to effect my heart. I do hope the games are good and would buy them if they prove to be, but I'm not sure if I can even trust word of mouth as it led me to games that I had very little enjoyment out of, Fallout: New Vegas, Neverwinter Nights 2 and VTM: Bloodlust. I just didn't like those games, really hated them for the most part, Especially NWN, every piece of that game pissed me the hell off. My tastes seemed to have diverged.

Of the new games that are coming, I know very little of any save for Wasteland 2, And Brian Fargo's interviews sorta soured me as they came off as very bitter and a cry of: Everybody else sucks! Buy my game! really turned me off. It does have giant robot scorpions and maybe might be more exploration focused since the first wasteland was exploration focused, more akin to Wizardry and Might and Magic than Fallout.

Shroud of the Avatar is something I have no idea what to expect, Lord British's only recent game is a failed MMO due to lack of content and so I don't have much to judge. Especially since Ultima is such a varied series in terms of quality. From excellent (Ultima 4 and 6) To Flawed gems (7) To pretty bad (8) to downright terrible (9). I do hope he can succeed but I'm really just going to have to wait until I have a complete game to judge.

Hell I have a ton of Spiderweb RPGs in my backlog to play when I have the classic WRPG itch that needs scratching. I really would recommend them to any fan of classic western RPGs.

 

[Verzin]

as far as I know there hasn't been a single AAA western RPG since DA origins.

Everything since then seems to have died off or been turned into some horrible action game with RPG elements. I wouldn't even call the sequels(included DA III) real sequels to DA origins. They're practically different genres.

Hype for the upcoming ones is ridiculous though. Don't expect them to great. Expect them to be like Shadowrun. Short, linear, and flawed. That way you won't be disappointed when they're terrible. Hype is always a terrible sign with games.