The Philosophy of Infinity.

[Arkhangelsk]

I believe in God, but I don't think that the universe is infinite. I believe it goes in a loop. Travel far enough towards one end and you'll end up where you started. Granted, it's gonna take veeeeeeeery long time.

 

[OtherAlex]

I personally believe the universe itself is infinite, but the things within it are not. Like a Fish bowl I suppose, every so often new water and new fish are required. As regards to god, he probably isnt even our god to begin with.

 

[Arachon]

As others have mentioned, an infinite universe does not imply infinite possibilities. However, if we imagine that there are an infinite number of parallel universes, there will be an infinite number of possibilities, and thus there can be a God, however, according to the natural laws of this universe, it appears unlikely that a God would exist here.

 

[rossatdi]

This is only a brief post, but I was pondering.

And if you subscribe to the infinite universe model, then you invariably have to subscribe to God. Because, arguably, within an infinite universe there are also infinite possibilities, basically if it can exist it does. Hence, God as we understand him or her or it, would also exist?

I am an un zealous atheist, I am just curious what the world thinks on this matter.

Do you mean infinite universes? The argument would follow:

1. An omnipotent God may exist
2. There are an infinite number of universes
3. In one of them he must exist
4. He therefore exists

-I understand that logic but I don't believe it would give this omnipotent God power over the universes he does not exist within.

 

[Zacharine]

As quoted : "given that the universe is infinite, and that god is also infinite, would you like any toast?".

I do not believe the universe if infinite or rather It cannot be both infinite and expanding for it to be infinite it must have just come into existence and surrounded everything that was there before.
The universe is about balance everything is balanced, if it was simply created or is infinite the black holes would have destroyed everything by now or sucked enough energy in to stabilise them selves but if the universe was expanding it would cause an Exponential growth and thus the universe is still creating matter.
But i'm down with quantum physics, that every state isn't going to happen, but rather has already happen is happening and will continue to happen simultaneously until it is observed (Schrödinger's cat) and therefore God both exists and doesn't exist until he is seen and the universe is both expanding and infinite until it is seen.

So what is it... a white hole?

I tried pursuing your path. What I found pissed others off and blew my mind. It's good, but wow.

Once you grasp the concepts QP is actually rather simple, because everything has already happened, even me typing this reply you can some what use it to "predict the future" (see minority report when he rolls the ball across the table) from our point of view something WILL happen and something MIGHT happen, I WILL click post when I'm done, and the world MIGHT end tomorrow, but until both have been observed the statements are both TURE and FALSE. When you read this post it will come TRUE but in another universe the lack of observation will come up FALSE. But the QP point of view is that everything has already happend, so if you could see that view, you could see all of time.

Actually while we can hold that to be correct for quantum level phenomenon, we find that on molecular-scale and larger that is pretty much impossible. Why? Because all particles and/or energy waves would have to be in that same state of superposition simultaneously.

You writing the post that replies to mine has not yet happened, because the state of electrons and hard drive data within the servers that host these messages are not in state of superposition of the message existing AND not existing. Indeed, as electrons within a functioning electrical system, they cannot be, and as hard drives as physical mediums of macroscopic scale, neither can the server HDD be in superposition. Even then the individual particles that comprise the HDD would have to be in exactly the same superposition as every other particle.

I find it far easier to think of the quantum world as nothing but propabilities. There is 95% chance an electron is within this area, the chances of the spin of this quark being up or down is 50/50 etc... and until observation is made, the propability dispersion remains wide. Observation makes it discreet, collapsing the wave-function as it were, making it possible for us to say 'it is here, and nowhere else. This particular 10% propability panned out in this case.'

OT: I do not think the universe is infinite as such. I'm also agnostic atheist.

 

[Darth Caelum]

This is only a brief post, but I was pondering.

And if you subscribe to the infinite universe model, then you invariably have to subscribe to God. Because, arguably, within an infinite universe there are also infinite possibilities, basically if it can exist it does. Hence, God as we understand him or her or it, would also exist?

I am an un zealous atheist, I am just curious what the world thinks on this matter.

hmmm...Me (who's philosophy consists of a mix of Andrew Ryan's, Darth Caedus'(Look it up), Atheism and belief in bacon) this does not really apply to me but....heck! i'll play ball!

An Universe that is Infinite and, as you say, has infinite possibilities, would indeed have a God-Like being But only if it can be supported by fact!
Since we know that the laws of Physics and Relativity CANNOT be broken (from what little knowledge we have). It means that in all the Possibilities, that law is still present.
If there is a WAY, that a creature like god can exist, then he will, of course HAVE to exist in at least SOME possibilities.
But if there IS NO law to support it, then there is NO god in any of those possibilities.
Basically, God or Bust from my Perspective.

 

[heyheysg]

I don't think that's what the infinite worlds theorem means.

If each action results in a different result and in each universe there are different actions and IF AND ONLY IF time doesn't end then you keep having infinite number of physically possible scenarios in this universe and the others.

If time does stop or the universes end, then there aren't infinite possibilities, just a really incomprehensiblely large number of possibilites.

 

[goldenheart323]

Yes, I think the OP mixed up the idea of a single, infinite universe, and a multi-verse where the universe splits off into different branches to allow all possible events to happen.

I happen to be watching a video of some professors discussing the ideas of a multi-verse. They do it in a way designed for the average person to be able to understand it. I'm up to part 4 where one guy explains how we might get multiple universes from just one big bang.
http://www.vimeo.com/7103324

I agree with Rossatdi. Yes, if you believe all possibilities exist in some universe somewhere, that means a god does exist. However, that argument doesn't necessarily mean he exists in our universe.

...but it's assuming that although the universe is constantly expanding, it does obey a set of rules, and these rules make it very difficult for an omnipotent, omnipresent deity to exist in it.

However, I already said that I don't subscribe to the infinite universe model, so what I'm saying is somewhat pointless, I suppose.

I disagree the existence of God would have a hard time not breaking the laws of physics in our universe. However, I would agree with he'd have a hard time not breaking the KNOWN laws of physics. We know a LOT about physics, but there's still a lot we don't know. All it would take for God to not violate the laws of physics is to use an extra dimension of space or 2. Heck, String Theory suggests there are up to 10 dimensions in our universe.
Imagine how god-like WE would be if we discovered a world of beings Carl Sagan called "Flat Landers" who only know about left/right, forward/backwards. Imagine the power we'd have over them, and imagine the "amazing" feats we could do since we can move up & down too. If Flat Landers tried to tell their friends about us, they may not be believed because we "break the laws of physics" and do the impossible. We could also know the impossible because we could see over barriers they can't.

 

[Captain Blackout]

This is only a brief post, but I was pondering.

And if you subscribe to the infinite universe model, then you invariably have to subscribe to God. Because, arguably, within an infinite universe there are also infinite possibilities, basically if it can exist it does. Hence, God as we understand him or her or it, would also exist?

I am an un zealous atheist, I am just curious what the world thinks on this matter.

You see? The best are appearing here, and even then absurdities creep in, and even the spark for a fight (I won't point it out, the sparks wouldn't like it).

If you chase the infinite, you will find something, maybe the infinite. It will likely do interesting things to your brain. I recommend finding someone who doesn't chase the infinite, who still has the choice of belief in them, love them enough to make it last and be fun for a lifetime. This approach makes all the lifetimes of awareness worth it. But hey, it's just a recommendation. If you don't like it, show this thread to sightless wisdom, that guy's a genius from a different path than mine.

The meaning of life: To be lived.
How do we live it? With compassion.

 

[Regiment]

Within an infinite universe there are infinite physically possible possibilities. This doesn't prove that there is a God- if you believe in God, then God is possible and there is a God, and if you believe that God is impossible, then there isn't.

I like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy argument that an infinitely large universe proves that the population of the universe is 0.

1) The universe is infinitely large.
2) There are an infinite number of planets, as there is an infinite amount of space for them to inhabit.
3) Some planets are uninhabited.
4) There is a finite number of inhabited planets.
5) The average population of any given planet in the universe is zero, as any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as to make no odds.
6) The population of the universe is zero, and any people you may meet are simply the products of a deranged imagination.

 

[TheMatt]

Just because a universe is infinite doesn't mean it has infinite possibilities.

Consider an infinite universe of custard. There is only custard in this universe, and it's laws of physics are such that this state is constant (so the custard won't compress or vary its density, or go off). The only possibility in this universe is custard.

I believe our universe, while not made of custard, is infinite, but like the universe of custard, there isn't necessarily the capacity for infinite possibilities.

Fucking awesome post, guy. Made my day.

ot - If you admit the existence of one God why not the others? Shiva and Vishnu would be so pissed.

 

[Cpt. Red]

Where your logic falter is that the reason that God/gods might exist is because we don't know if it is possible or not for it/them to exist. If we knew that it was possible then God/gods would almost surely exist.

Things that we know are possible will almost surely happen if the universe is infinite.
Things we don't know if they are possible or not we cannot conclude if they will happen or not.