The Playstation Loses.. To the Playstation

[Xangi]

I know I said I wouldn't post again but... The PS3 has 256MB of VRAM and 256MB of RAM. The average gaming PC has 3GB of RAM and 512MB of VRAM. This means that you could (if you had a PS3 emulator) run any PS3 game that exists and ever will exist. Also, the Cell processor (which would have been your logical counterargument) is roughly equivalent in UTILIZED (not potential, utilized) power to an AMD Athlon 4800+. Also (again), the Xbox 360 is pretty much equivalent (512MB shared memory between VRAM and RAM) to a ps3 in every aspect except the processor.

What the hell are you talking about.

Wow where to start?

1). Using RAM and VRam to find comparatives between consoles and PC is stupidly flawed. You can't even use the core hardware to find a comparative, Here's an example why. If you take a 1.4L engine and stick it in a ton and a half of family hatchback then the car will be fairly slow and have a limited top speed (PC). Now take that 1.4L engine and stick it in a motorbike chassis and suddenly you have something that will kick the ass out of most modern super cars (Console.) Exactly the same hardware but applied differently.

2). The PS3 doesn't even use the same instruction set architecture for it's CPU and GPU. A PC will use the X86 instruction set the PS3 uses what is sexily called the SPU Instructtion set. So right from the off you can determine that the PS3 operates in a different way to a standard PC. Remember the 1.4L engine in the Car vs Bike.

3). The GPU on a PC usually uses the Directx API. On the other hand the PS3 uses the Opengl API. So once again same 'engine' being used in a different 'chassis'

4).This is the biggy. The games / software for the PS3 are designed to be run on a system that has 7 CPU cores. Now to my knowledge their is only a few select PC systems out there that have anywhere near that many cores, we're talking Skulltrail and serious cash here. So assuming that the majority of PC gamers don't have 4 grand PCs lying about you would need to develop an emulator that is capable of taking a program that is designed to run on 7 threads and get it to combine the work load in to 2 threads. You would also then require the program to do the on fly conversion of the graphics API and the on fly conversion of the instruction set. Now you see why their isn't any PS3 emulators out there.

This means that you could run a lot (most) ps3 games on a 360 if you cut down on the processor-heavy calculations (physics, volumetrics etc). And, FYI, you probably could play STALKER on a Ps2 if you cut down on the graphics and installed half the game onto a hard drive (like the Ps3 does with its games).

5). You could fly to the moon if you stuck a rocket up your arse and wished hard enough but chances are all you would end up with is a badly burnt anus. Saying what you could do if.... does not mean you should or for that matter actually could.

Finally

Examples of good PC games include:
-Crysis (can't be run by ps3)

Actually Crytek have said that they could get Crysis to run on BOTH current gen consoles.

http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/10480/Crytek_Says_Crysis_Next-Gen_Ports_are_Possible.html

Agreed, sorta. I did not mention the difference in OS and Engines but using VRAM and RAM is still a good way to compare systems. My points are valid though, because, even as efficiently as a PS3 Engine uses 256MB of RAM, a PC with 3GB could still do it better. Your 4th point is BS because most PS3 games don't even use all the cells on the chip. And... If you gave me a PS2, dev team and some time I would gladly give you a nerfed version of STALKER to play on your PS2.

And if you ran Crysis on a PS3 or 360 it would be so cut down it would barely be the same game (but *sigh* the PS3 version would be closer because it could install most of the data for the maps on the hard drive).

Now I have to go play a PC FPS before I descend into fanboyism and go buy a PS3 even though most of my friends have one I could use...

 

[Xangi]

I hope the PS3 gets bad enough to lose InFamous as an exclusive.

...Want...

Lose it to what? If the Ps3 goes, then that means inFAMOUS goes, as its the only console that can run it. Same with pretty much every Ps3 exclusive.

My 4 year old PC can run EVERY SINGLE ONE. But that said, downgrade the graphics a hair and the 360 can run it.

Yes, in the same way a pocket calculator can run Snow Leapord.

The PC doesn't have Metal Gear Solid 4, so you can't really say it has better games.

I lol'ed so very hard at this statement.

Here's a concept you may find revolutionary. To say a platform has better games, it actually has to have better games, of which no-one who says that ever seems to be able to produce beyond Starcraft II.

Wait, can't you play MGS4 on a PC if you have a blu-ray drive? At least, I recall being informed you could.

No, you can't. Just like you can't play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. on a Ps2.

I know I said I wouldn't post again but... The PS3 has 256MB of VRAM and 256MB of RAM. The average gaming PC has 3GB of RAM and 512MB of VRAM. This means that you could (if you had a PS3 emulator) run any PS3 game that exists and ever will exist. Also, the Cell processor (which would have been your logical counterargument) is roughly equivalent in UTILIZED (not potential, utilized) power to an AMD Athlon 4800+. Also (again), the Xbox 360 is pretty much equivalent (512MB shared memory between VRAM and RAM) to a ps3 in every aspect except the processor. This means that you could run a lot (most) ps3 games on a 360 if you cut down on the processor-heavy calculations (physics, volumetrics etc). And, FYI, you probably could play STALKER on a Ps2 if you cut down on the graphics and installed half the game onto a hard drive (like the Ps3 does with its games).

P.S.
Examples of good PC games include:
-Crysis (can't be run by ps3)
-Bioshock (ok, not exclusive but its on PC)
-The Orange Box (see above)
-Fallout 3 (not the cut down console version. the awesome, extremely moddable PC version which looks better in every way)
-Galactic Civilizations 2 (old, but good)
-Left 4 Dead
-Crysis Warhead
-Diablo 2
-Phun (sorta like LBP, but different, DL and try it)
-GTA4 (if you like the game, I personally do but many others don't)
-Sins of a Solar Empire
-AOE1-3
-AOE 1-3 Expansions
-COD4 (not exclusive, but good)
-Command and Conquer (all of them)
-S.T.A.L.K.E.R (both)
-UT (all of them)
-Red Alert 3
-Dead Space (if you like that kinda thing, I don't)
-Audiosurf
-GOW 1 (not really that bad actually)
-GMOD (is pretty awesome)
-SMOD (google it)
-Age of Mythology
-Dawn of War 1 and all its expansions
-any emulators

If you are wondering about the lack of exclusives, this is the reason. Most PC games get really good on PC and then get ported over to consoles. This rarely happens in the reverse order but has been known to occur (gta4 is a good example).

Also (I use that word to often, I need a synonym for it), If you post back a whole list of reasons why all these games suck, you have even less of a life than I though and will be made fun of by me and all my friends for a very long time

Actually, the multiple processors make the ps3 virtually impossible to emulate (and almost as hard to program for), just like the sega saturn. all multiprocessor machines are a ***** to emulate, even old, crappy ones like the jaguar. That's not to say pc isn't a superior platform, just that it cannot play ps3 games (at the moment, anyway.)

Yeah, I know it would be really difficult. I'm just saying IF you did have one, you could do it easily.

 

[Woe Is You]

Yeah, I know it would be really difficult. I'm just saying IF you did have one, you could do it easily.

Well, it isn't exactly easy even you had the exact specs (see the emulation of original Xbox games on the 360 and PS2 games on the PS3). Most of the guys who do emulators on the PC don't, so it'll take a lot of trial and error before they get your emulator to run any code, let alone full games. That's not to say we'll never see a PS3 emulator at some point but it'll probably take quite a while.

 

[Laughing Man]

Erm Nope...You are correct in assuming that the ps3 has 7 cores.

I didn't assume, I stated and the Cell actually has 8 cores or SPEs, I said it used 7 as one is left as a backup.

One runs the operating system and the other six run the games

Yeah not really. The Cell is split in to several components. The two main being the PPE and the eight SPEs. The PPE is a general purpose CPU and it's this part of the Cell that runs the OS. It is also the task of the PPE to oversee the data transfer to the SPEs. It is the 8 SPEs that deliver the Cells raw power and it's alse these 8 SPEs that get refered to as the 8 cores within the Cell.

(just to point out though an xbox 360 actually has 3 cores and its processor is based upon upgraded ps3 tech but obviously is not as powerful)

Uh no, they approached IBM and asked if they could get a developed version of the Cells PPE, that's the only part of the Cell that appears in the 360 but since the Cells power is delivered by the SPEs that doesn't really mean much.

but you compare cell and standard pc processing with no knowledge of how they actually work.

Two years of microcomputer architecture in my final two years of my Electronic Engineering Honours Degree. Just because I didn't mention the ins and outs of how the modern X86 Processors work or provide a detailed breakdown of every part of the Cells RISC architecure doesn't mean I don't know how they work.

Standard processor have numerous features which the cell lacks such as branch prediction etc...it gets v technical...that actually mean whilst not having as many cores as as a cell they are actually capable of much higher performance.

In order, wrong, yes, yes and no.

Wrong example. You had a multitude of X86 ISA examples to choose from and you select the one that can actually slow a CPU down.

Yes it does get v technical

Yes modern desktop CPUs don't have as many hardware cores as the Cell

No they do not have much higher performance. Well maybe not a simple NO rather it should be don't assume based on a flawed example of the X86 ISA. The Cell and an X86 CPU do different tasks in different ways. X86 are very good at multitasking and general tasking, the Cell is very good as number crunching. The Cell will take a Core I7 out the back and give it a damn good kicking when it comes to HD encoding the Core I7 will give The Cell a beating at out of order executions and multitasking.

Therefore mid to high spec dual core processors easily best the ps3 for power

Nope wrong, fail, incorrect, what do you want me to say? You're flat out wrong. You have generalized and given no examples and that's the flaw with every single PC Console comparative. Take a console assume the equivalent PC tech and then compare. Ignore the fact that the tech is different the code used to run the tech is different and that the type of tasks and how they handle the tasks is different and finally the core tasks that the user wants the tech to handle will usually be different as well.

Agreed, sorta. I did not mention the difference in OS and Engines but using VRAM and RAM is still a good way to compare systems.

No it isn't it's the comparative of the idiot who can't see beyond numbers. Bigger is better etc etc.

y points are valid though, because, even as efficiently as a PS3 Engine uses 256MB of RAM, a PC with 3GB could still do it better.

Could do what better, make toast, water plants, drive a golf buggy, perhaps a more definitive statement as to what it could do better would be in order.

Your 4th point is BS because most PS3 games don't even use all the cells on the chip.

Your whole post is BS since it is based around pure performance values and totally ignores the fact that the PS3 software and CPU works differently to that of a PC. The biggest step is and always will be the combination of the multi threads on the PS3 in to a code that can be run on a desktop CPU that has anywhere from one to four hardware cores. Raw power has nothing to do with it and that's before we look at the raw power the Cell can deliver in tasks such as HD encoding. Of course the best example is given just how mighty and how powerful PCs are why is there still no PS3 emulators out there.... Thank you I'll take the win.

And if you ran Crysis on a PS3 or 360 it would be so cut down it would barely be the same game

I assume you emailed Crytek and told them that it seems like something they should really be told about, you know what with you being the expert and all.

The guys banging on about PC power need to pull their head out of their collective arses. If you want to do a direct comparative then you've failed right from the off. If you still want to compare then use real world examples not 'I've decided this is what a PS3 / 360 would be if it was a PC and now I'll compare them.' If you still feel the need to bang on about how powerful your PC is then please do not be so stupid as to say it is more powerful because I say so and then move on without giving at least a decent example of why and please ensure that example is relevant to both things you are comparing.

 

[The Ruiner]

It's rather humorous how far this thread has mutated from the original topic.

 

[Jodah]

Holy necromancy batman!

 

[FURY_007]

OH NOESSSSS11111!!!!!1!1one!!lolwut!!11eleven!!

AN OPINION THAT DIFFERS FROM MINE, IT HAS TO BE WRONG!!

....

seriously, they all have their strong points, they all have their weaknesses, their good games, and their bad games, PS3's a little behind on their sales, to one of the, not if the biggest selling consoles of all time, whoopity fucking do

I myself don't own any of the consoles, besides my beloved PS2 + N64, I prefer PC gaming. Am I shedding tears that I can't play MGS4 or GoW3, no. Am I shoving HL2 and the barious Valve games down your throat or StarCraft and SCII (when it comes out). NO. saying that the PS3 is bad is saying that the lamborghini is better than the ferrari. IT'S ALL. FUCKING. PREFERENCE.
Doesn't matter about hardware, graphics, games, it's all preference.
I hate myself for even posting on this flamewar of a topic, but too late.

Now do I have everyone's attention?

Good.

Just let this failness of a thread die please, im looking at all fanboys, whether PC, Xbox, or Playstation. Just shut up, take a deep breath, and play games on your system of choice.

When I say fanboy, I don't mean fan. I am a Fan of PC gaming, but I know it's faults and i recognize the strengths of the consoles.

now end thread in 5...
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