The point of Avatar, why empathy is important and why humans are like cancer

[Casual Shinji]

Yes, I'm sure James Cameron was really empathetic during the 15 years he sat around wasting between 237-472 millon dollars on fancy special effects, that's how important his message to us was.

"That's right, CONSUMER, I, HOLLYWOOD DIRECTER, say YOU are greedy and evil, NOT I."

Fuck you, James Cameron.

I felt the excact same way after seeing the directors cut of The Abyss.
That disgustng "We benevolent aliens won't flood the Earth and kill humanity, because these two people love eachother" scene, ugh.

I think Spoony summed up my opinion about Avatar to the letter.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

Equating the mutilation and death of a person to chopping a tree down? Really? So if one were to preen roses, would it be like cutting off someone's fingers?

Totally.

And you don't want to know what will get chopped of from your body if you touch a cactus!

 

[Soluncreed]

You act as if you are suprised that humans care more about themselves than they do others. Why would any species care more about another if theirs was the one that was in danger?

 

[Typhusoid]

I only have one thing to saw to this: Speak for your fucking self. You may not have cried when Bambi's mum died, but I sure did. Don't tell me I haven't got any empathy when you have never met me and know nothing about me.

 

[Doug]

go hug a tree
btw the movies plot was basically a remake of Pocahontas oly with more aliens and some interspecies sex thrown into the mix

I haven't seen it yet. Does it potray the humans (aka Europeans) with a very limited view of value purely based on gold and absolutely NOTHING else? And does [insert name of female love interest] stand around posing alot?

 

[Casual Shinji]

You act as if you are suprised that humans care more about themselves than they do others. Why would any species care more about another if theirs was the one that was in danger?

Yeah, I always love those wildlife documentairies were waterbuffalo nuture and raise lioncubs................... Oh no wait, they stomp them into the ground, don't they?

Nature is just as vile and destructive as mankind. The only difference is that humans have a conscience and nature doesn't.
There are animals that eat and even rape their own young, but you never hear David Attenborough talk about that, do you?

 

[Skeleon]

I haven't seen it yet. Does it potray the humans (aka Europeans) with a very limited view of value purely based on gold and absolutely NOTHING else? And does [insert name of female love interest] stand around posing alot?

Yep, on both accounts.
Except for the main human protagonist and a few scientists, they value their research and peaceful coexistence.
Oh, and [female love interest] also jumps around a lot and scowls.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

-Brutal snip-

I came into this thread expecting to disagree with the first post. I am glad to say that you pleaded your case well enough to convince me that you have a point, and one I can agree with too. Great post! Thank you for putting it forth.

 

[Captain Pancake]

That's one of things I hate about Avatar. The connection between the Navi and nature is completley unrealistic.

It doesn't have to be realistic, it's a bloody film. Jesus, it's like everywhere I look there are people picking holes in the smallest aspect of the film. I swear to god, it's as if it's the cool thing to hate Avatar, so many people are following this trend.

 

[Doug]

I haven't seen it yet. Does it potray the humans (aka Europeans) with a very limited view of value purely based on gold and absolutely NOTHING else? And does [insert name of female love interest] stand around posing alot?

Yep, on both accounts.
Except for the main human protagonist and a few scientists, they value their research and peaceful coexistence.
Oh, and [female love interest] also jumps around a lot and scowls.

Ah, so they have several clones of John Smith (the European protagonist in Pokey I think) instead of just the one?

Oh, almost forgot - is there also at least one sidekick per full character, if not more?

 

[MercurySteam]

It's true that the basic moral of Avatar is "Humans are fags". That probably why...

Spoiler

...the main character goes permanently Na'vi at the end of the movie.

 

[Gitsnik]

Isn't the internet a rather significant part of this so-called decadent lifestyle and thus a kind of silly medium to be using to make any point of this matter.

I will say here to what I say to everyone else - give up your clothes, food, knives, blankets, cars, games, alcohol, etc. Go live in the forest and survive on nothing but what you can find and make yourself (that is not human made).

Come back to me in 5 years. Or 10.

If you can...

 

[Nomad]

I would say we are more like a parasite, we take what we can and give nothing in return.

I actually thought those blue aliens seemed a bit parasitic to me. They only exploited their surroundings without adding anything positive to the ones they exploited. Their mounts, for example. They just forcibly stuck their appendages inside them after a vicious struggle, and then imposed their will on the creature without it getting a say. And then they just called on the mounts whenever they needed them, without the mounts getting anything in return. As for the trees, they rebuilt them to suit their own needs as habitats, again without giving anything in return.

The Navi were flawless and lived in perfect harmony with their environment. It's just not fair to compare our species to one that is nearly perfect.

I honestly can't see in what way they lived in "harmony" with the environment as such. They were parasitic. I would understand if it had been a symbiotic relationship, but all they did was take... Not to mention that they had a very warlike approach to interspecies relations, a very strict and oppressive social hierarchy, and were very superficial. Everyone forgived the main character just because he came flying with a brand new car dragon-thingy... Something that had absolutely nothing to do with why they were angry with him in the first place. And when he became one of them, he got to "choose a woman". We gave up that kind of nonsense 100 years ago in western society.

The blue guys had a primitive, warlike, unequal and parasitic relationship towards everyone and everything - including themselves. I honestly didn't see what made them the good guys of the movie. I thought everyone was equally evil.

 

[Skeleon]

Ah, so they have several clones of John Smith (the European protagonist in Pokey I think) instead of just the one?

Nah, only one of them is really heroic, the main protagonist/ex-marine.
Remember, the others are scientists with good intentions and little else.

Oh! Wait, there's this chopper pilot, she's heroic, too. But she's part of the army and also dies.

Oh, almost forgot - is there also at least one sidekick per full character, if not more?

Hm... no, not really. But we do have "tame the mustang"-clichés as a substitute.

 

[House_Vet]

Isn't the internet a rather significant part of this so-called decadent lifestyle and thus a kind of silly medium to be using to make any point of this matter.

I will say here to what I say to everyone else - give up your clothes, food, knives, blankets, cars, games, alcohol, etc. Go live in the forest and survive on nothing but what you can find and make yourself (that is not human made).

Come back to me in 5 years. Or 10.

If you can...

You need a knife at least. Otherwise you're more than a little screwed. But you're right, this whole debate is more than a little ironic.

 

[PhiMed]

I also enjoyed Avatar, but please don't waste any more time trying to convince Asimov that human beings are good. He believes he invented Transcendentalism. Let him think that for a bit longer until he decides to actually pick up a book and discovers he's almost 200 years late.

 

[Kevvers]

What the film fails to consider is that if a giant meteor were to crash into Pandora then the only thing the Na'vi could do would be to try to survive and rebuild -- which might not be possible. This idea of harmony with nature is pretty silly as nature isn't intelligent, even if it was (e.g. on Pandora) it isn't like the planet is able to move out of the way of an asteroid or do anything to prevent it. If they make a sequel, they should make one where a meteor is heading for Pandora and is likely to completely wipe out the life on the planet. They can make it so the corporate guys are rubbing their hands because they can then go down afterwards to get the unobtainium guilt-free, but the scientists want to prevent the catastrophe because they think the unique nature of the life on Pandora should be preserved. Sort of like Armageddon but it isn't our planet, and the natives are blissfully unaware... A good reply to the slightly misanthropic anti-progressive message of avatar.

The blue guys had a primitive, warlike, unequal and parasitic relationship towards everyone and everything - including themselves. I honestly didn't see what made them the good guys of the movie. I thought everyone was equally evil.

Yes, good point, you've put your finger on something that was nagging at me -- the only reason they were considered virtuous in the film is because they had a anti-scientific neo-luddite 'noble savage' world view. But there are some problems that this is woefully ill-equipped to address.

 

[SnipErlite]

Just, say we found a new planet rich with resources, it would not surprise me if we went in, took everything useful (thereby draining it) and left.

But maybe I'm just a massive cynic

If we found a planet full of resources, we would utilize it. No point in letting those resources go to waste. However, that's not a bad thing. And I guarantee we would make attempts to renew all possible resources.

Even though a big faceless bastard corporation would probably get in charge of the extraction process?

Why does everyone assume that anything corporate is big and scary and faceless and will rape the environment and not buy it breakfast the next morning? Definitely not all corporations are like that.

Because from a purely business-sense perspective that's the best thing to do (ie. the thing that generates the most profit). And 'cause a lot of humans who have power have massive potential to be bastards