The point of Avatar, why empathy is important and why humans are like cancer

[userwhoquitthesite]

What I'm really confused about is why everyone is making such a big deal about these forest things on pandora. Go to another continent and there are shit-tons of guns and things!

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I guess humanity really is terrible because they take what they have in their environment and use it to better their lives. Damn, I'm sorry.

No. Humanity is terrible because it destroys what exists around it in order to better the lives of those who are on top of the humanity pile.

I really don't get why people seem to think that modern living is so much better than the old ways. Sure, life could be tough, violent, cruel, painful, and unforgiving. But you didn't have to drive home to a run-down council estate, driving past huge mansions where rich people live because having more money makes them "better". Modern life is unjust, can be just as cruel, can be just as violent, just as tough. The only difference is that people convince themselves that it has "purpose" when it doesn't. Life is considerably less colourful and beautiful too. In the old days, each day was spent hunting, traveling, or running from giant sabre-toothed cats. These days, for a lot of people, their time is spent on the same chair in front of the same flashing screen. Or in the same factory screwing on the same bolt over and over.

Maybe my own profession (park ranger) has coloured my perception somewhat. But I doubt it.

And please, nobody come back at me with modern medicine. The modern age is what created the need for modern medicine. How often do diseases wipe out massive populations of wild animals? Rarely. The reason humans are so effected is because we back ourselves into buildings like so many lab rats, circulating the same air all over said building. Our teeth wear to the gums in record time because we eat sugary shit. We get strokes and heart attacks because we eat fatty shit and don't spend enough time chasing deers with spears.

 

[Lurchibald]

People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?

i think it would more be more accurate to say that (at least with the main giant tree that was cut down) would more be like say "the white house" being leveled by a foreign power.

 

[MasterKirov]

My opinion on Avatar is this - go see it for visuals. That's it.

The Humans and the Na'vi are done to an almost cartoonish level. You can guess this film and it's charecters from start to finish and get just about every guess right. The Humans that weren't Na'vi goody two shoes hardly had any real charecterisation beyond thier primary personalities being cardboard cutouts. The only reason this travesty and shame is piling up $100,000,000 (number exaggerated) is because of two words - James Cameroon. If this was someone else, it would have failed hook, line and sinker.

The message in this film is basically dropped on the audiances head relentlessly. I can recommend a fair few things that have the same message without being so Anvilicious.

 

[Spitfire]

I haven't seen Avatar as of yet (and I have no intention to), but I have to address some of the things you're saying.

People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

Trees don't experience pain, feelings, or thoughts of any kind, so cutting one down certainly isn't on par with murdering an animal or a human. Deforestation, on the other hand, is indeed malicious, as it's destroying the natural environment of countless species, and it facilitates pollution. There's quite a difference between the two.

The only opposition for killing plants is the environmental impact and the fact that many plants are pretty, which is good, but a different point entirely.

Judging by your logic, that should be the equivalent of decapitation.

Some people say that eating a dog is horrible (some cultures do that). When I ask them why, they simply answer "because it's a dog". Eating a dog is no worse than eating a pig or a cow.

That may be so, but there's more to it than that. In some places where dog meat is consumed, most notably China, the dogs sometimes undergo live "processing" (skinning, basically), a practice that is currently not prohibited by any regulations there. In that instance at least, eating a dog is definitely worse than eating a pig or cow.

 

[Valiance]

I guess humanity really is terrible because they take what they have in their environment and use it to better their lives. Damn, I'm sorry.

No. Humanity is terrible because it destroys what exists around it in order to better the lives of those who are on top of the humanity pile.

I really don't get why people seem to think that modern living is so much better than the old ways. Sure, life could be tough, violent, cruel, painful, and unforgiving. But you didn't have to drive home to a run-down council estate, driving past huge mansions where rich people live because having more money makes them "better". Modern life is unjust, can be just as cruel, can be just as violent, just as tough. The only difference is that people convince themselves that it has "purpose" when it doesn't. Life is considerably less colourful and beautiful too. In the old days, each day was spent hunting, traveling, or running from giant sabre-toothed cats. These days, for a lot of people, their time is spent on the same chair in front of the same flashing screen. Or in the same factory screwing on the same bolt over and over.

Maybe my own profession (park ranger) has coloured my perception somewhat. But I doubt it.

And please, nobody come back at me with modern medicine. The modern age is what created the need for modern medicine. How often do diseases wipe out massive populations of wild animals? Rarely. The reason humans are so effected is because we back ourselves into buildings like so many lab rats, circulating the same air all over said building. Our teeth wear to the gums in record time because we eat sugary shit. We get strokes and heart attacks because we eat fatty shit and don't spend enough time chasing deers with spears.

Again, spend a couple weeks without indoor plumbing and come back to me.

I'm not saying every advancement made was good, or that a hammer is always used to build a house instead of smashing someone's head in. I'm saying that overall, I think most humans would rather have a nice warm bed instead of nearly being eaten in their sleep.

I don't know what your point about other people having more money than me was, because I'm relatively content with how things are for me.

Either way, because we have thumbs, and, you know, a brain, we create technology for the main purpose of bettering our lives. Where do you think we should have stopped? The wheel? Spear? Agriculture? All of it is technology in one way or another, all clothing, all weaponry, all communication tools, all shelter, etc. Where do you think we should have stopped?

 

[MagnetoHydroDynamics]

We are simpli killing ourselves indirectly, I see nothing wrong with that... Should I say something about it, I would like if we could speed it up so I would see apocalypse in my lifetime.

 

[Baby Tea]

Snip

I'm sorry, I'm just jumping in here because I just saw the movie last night.
First off, I really enjoyed the film. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Secondly, I don't think the movie was decrying technical advancement.
I think it was more talking about the understanding and preservation of the world around us.

It would be silly and a huge mistake to try and 'go back' to a simpler time. I'd rather not have to deal with multiple diseases without treatment, a low life expectancy, and watch my wife die in labor. But I would hate to see the eradication of all life but our own on this planet. In the movie, Jake talks about how all life on earth is pretty much dead (Except for humans), and that is a terribly scary thought.

So, again, I don't think the movie was saying 'We should all be living among the trees with bows and arrows', but rather that we should have a profound and very real respect for the world that we have, and the life that inhabits it.

 

[gamefreakbsp]

The plot may have been straightforward and predictable, but it was well done, so it balanced out to me.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Spoiler

I guess humanity really is terrible because they take what they have in their environment and use it to better their lives. Damn, I'm sorry.

No. Humanity is terrible because it destroys what exists around it in order to better the lives of those who are on top of the humanity pile.

I really don't get why people seem to think that modern living is so much better than the old ways. Sure, life could be tough, violent, cruel, painful, and unforgiving. But you didn't have to drive home to a run-down council estate, driving past huge mansions where rich people live because having more money makes them "better". Modern life is unjust, can be just as cruel, can be just as violent, just as tough. The only difference is that people convince themselves that it has "purpose" when it doesn't. Life is considerably less colourful and beautiful too. In the old days, each day was spent hunting, traveling, or running from giant sabre-toothed cats. These days, for a lot of people, their time is spent on the same chair in front of the same flashing screen. Or in the same factory screwing on the same bolt over and over.

Maybe my own profession (park ranger) has coloured my perception somewhat. But I doubt it.

And please, nobody come back at me with modern medicine. The modern age is what created the need for modern medicine. How often do diseases wipe out massive populations of wild animals? Rarely. The reason humans are so effected is because we back ourselves into buildings like so many lab rats, circulating the same air all over said building. Our teeth wear to the gums in record time because we eat sugary shit. We get strokes and heart attacks because we eat fatty shit and don't spend enough time chasing deers with spears.

Again, spend a couple weeks without indoor plumbing and come back to me.

I do on a more or less regular basis each year. Even without the actual "weeks" I try to get a few days at least during each season, whether blazing sun or freezing snow. Something of a pilgrimage to nature if you will. But that is a personal philosophy that I would not try to put on to others nor do I think it would fit with others.

I'm not saying every advancement made was good, or that a hammer is always used to build a house instead of smashing someone's head in. I'm saying that overall, I think most humans would rather have a nice warm bed instead of nearly being eaten in their sleep.

Undoubtedly. However, the fact remains that out of most of the people on this planet, most don't have a nice warm bed. Us in the developed world, we are the exceptions, not the rules. Even in our biggest cities there are black holes of squalor and misery. And if you look at most of Asia, Africa, South and Central America, and former Eastern-Bloc countries you will find the situation far worse. I do understand how someone without actually seeing this kind of poverty and misery caused by modern living would find my post somewhat mistifying, which explains this sentence...

I don't know what your point about other people having more money than me was, because I'm relatively content with how things are for me.

...because while I am relatively content with how things are for myself, I am less than content for how things are for the rest of the world. Whether human, animal, or green growing thingy.

Either way, because we have thumbs, and, you know, a brain, we create technology for the main purpose of bettering our lives. Where do you think we should have stopped? The wheel? Spear? Agriculture? All of it is technology in one way or another, all clothing, all weaponry, all communication tools, all shelter, etc. Where do you think we should have stopped?

I think humans should never have started. There isn't anything intrinsically wrong with technology, but there isn't anything right with it either. The problem is not technology but with those who weild it. Humans use any technology they create, and never ask the question "should I?". What they can do, they will do. If the pace of human expansion continues (thanks in large part to technology), and if the damage to the natural world continues (thanks to human hubris and thoughtlessness), there is a real danger of turning what was once a green and glorious self sustaining paradise into a spherical desert with a few pimples of iron and concrete dotting its face, with some hairless monkeys eking out a living in those little lumps which were once were cities.

 

[FactualSquirrel]

No the point of that goddamn awful movie is to make moneys. I hate it when people say this, as everything commercial is to make money, and there are absolutely no exceptions.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

I enjoyed Avatar for the pacing and visual design, but wasn't amazed at the story. I enjoyed Speaker for the Dead much more concerning plant/animal communication.

There are two things to know from watching this movie:
1.

Spoiler: Plot summary in 5 panels

[img="http://comixed.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/129053027903090394.jpg"]

2. Always listen to Sigourney Weaver concerning life forms from other worlds.

 

[zahr]

We feel no empathy whatsoever to other animals because we are not like them.

We feel some empathy towards them, but not as much as for humans

Depends. I usually feel more empathy towards animals than towards other people. Of course, being an aspie, what I feel isn't relevant to humanity as a whole. Still, just wanted to point that out.

 

[King Chronic]

People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?

dont forget without plants/trees were all dead, so why dont ya think about that?

the problem with us humans is that we just dont give a fuck what we do and find ourself to be superior race, but this is only due to our knowledge and what we can create, a man facing down a bear with a gun, the man would obviously win, but have the man back when no guns or nothing were around, my moneys on the bear..

 

[ribonuge]

Avatar has been getting a lot of hate here at the escapist for one big reason- the unoriginal plot. But, and I have said this in other threads, the plot isn't the point of the movie. The point of it is to get you immersed in an amazing world and use it to drive a point home.

Some people say that the message is exxagerated, with the humans being sadistic, nature-hating douchebags who put no value on life. They are wrong in many ways. Humans do the exact same thing in real life, but instead of killing the opposition, they ignore them completely. Also, what the humans were doing on Pandora has nothing on what people do in real life. We cut down practically whole forests every day and kill untold amounts of animal species so we can live a life of decadent luxery and excess. We kill any animal that poses a threat and save room only for the ones we think are cute.

The difference between real life and Avatar is that we don't SEE what we are doing to the planet and Earth isn't as majestic or beautiful as Pandora in the eyes of many people, although I believe it is. We are just jaded and think we've seen everything there is to see on Earth. We are like a cancer, a natural part of the system that has grown out of control and is beginning to kill the system that gave birth to it.

I believe I know why we do this too- we have no Empathy. Empathy is feeling connected emotionally to other things. We assume that because we have been more successful as a species and are smart that we are in a league of our own. We would kill hundreds of animals to save one human life, because we can relate to people. We know what it feels like to be human and identify with other humans. We feel empathy for them.

We feel no empathy whatsoever to other animals because we are not like them. Think about it- if you felt as much sadness for the death of any living thing as the death of a person, what would the world be like. Also people feel even less empathy for plants because they can't move or emote and have no faces. People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death. The only opposition for killing plants is the environmental impact and the fact that many plants are pretty, which is good, but a different point entirely.

We love dogs and cats as pets because they like us and (for the most part) won't hurt us. Some people say that eating a dog is horrible (some cultures do that). When I ask them why, they simply answer "because it's a dog". Eating a dog is no worse than eating a pig or a cow. They are all living creatures. If we felt empathy for every living thing, our world would be so much better and people would get the damn point when watching Avatar. Jesus christ....

You have my absolute agreement on this. On every point, except perhaps, Jesus Christ But thats a detail. Your view on the message's (albeit basic) correspondance with real life almost resounds with my beliefs fully. Empathy is extremely important and I think alot of people lack that emotion. It is perhaps the most complex and important emotion of all . It's disappointing to know that all these things are happening and people just sit down, watch the news and see a war in Iraq. They say "that's terrible" without any real idea of what it's about and go about their days. I honestly can't understand how any human could do that. Their the sort of things that take up my time. Thinking about all the crap the human race has brought upon the Earth. It pisses me off.

 

[B Goy]

The only problem with feeling bad for the natives that I had was the fact that the film cost 250 million dollars. I mean couldn't the money be used for a REAL cause like helping 3rd world countries or feed starving African children or maybe using the money to establish charities to do that work for you instead of making a film with pretty CGI while we fight about whether we should give a flying crap. Its like eating a mountain of chocolate cakes in front of strapped in African children with their eyes stuck open then making a film about the plight of the giant Smurfs with tails who ride dragons going back and rubbing the money on their corpses

 

[Internet Kraken]

People say that chopping down a tree isn't bad because it has no emotions. I say that chopping a tree down is just as bad as chopping a human's legs off and leaving him/her to bleed to death.

I'm sorry, but are you serious? This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. I mean really, you think it's wrong to chop down trees? What the hell?

dont forget without plants/trees were all dead, so why dont ya think about that?

You seem to be thinking that just because I said that cutting down trees is not wrong that I have no respect for any part of nature.

I understand the importance of plants for both industrial and environmental purposes. And it's because I understand how important a tree is that I don't think it's wrong to cut them down. Cutting down excessive amounts of trees is obviously wrong, but clear cutting isn't nearly as prevalent as it used to be. Trees do grow back.

the problem with us humans is that we just dont give a fuck what we do and find ourself to be superior race

But we are the superior race because of

but this is only due to our knowledge and what we can create

that. Our brain power is what allows us to be the dominant species. The ability to create tools to adapt and survive in new environments is far more valuable than being able to run fast or being incredibly strong.

a man facing down a bear with a gun, the man would obviously win, but have the man back when no guns or nothing were around, my moneys on the bear..

Taking away a human's weapons is like taking away a bear's claws. What exactly are you trying to prove with that point?

 

[SextusMaximus]

I'm afraid that that is just stupid. The reason humans are hostile is because they have learned from empathy.

On day, caveman Bob walked out of his cave and met a tarantula, he petted it and fed it, only to get bitten by it and become seriously ill.

Empathy gone, hostile humanity.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

I'm doing the *arms crossed, meaning slight disaggreement* right now.
I'm fairly certain that any other omnivorous species that evolved to our level instead of us would do just about the same. Although you do make a good point with "ooh let's just throw away our clohtes and embrace mother nature" etcetra. (heh, yeah, I'm cynical, what did you expect)
I honestly couldn't care less about thousands of animals ruthlessly (and probably pointlessly) butchered every day. Or about those people who die every day, because I don't know them. I don't see them live, die, or do anything else. I'm having enough problems trying to fit into society as it is (and to finally get the nerve to ask that girl out...).
So basically, I'm self-absorbed, anger-inducing freak of nature. Right.

 

[itstimeforpie]

I feel bad for the countless animals slaughtered to keep me fed for the past twenty-odd years. However, the will to survive is far stronger than the remorse I feel for their death. Their sacrifice was necessary for my survival or betterment, and I have since rationalized this in order to sooth my regrets.

Humans aren't cancer (okay, some are), we're just self-serving, just like every other creature on the planet. Don't think for a second that your faithful dog wouldn't eat you in a second if its survival came into question.

Well put.