Enthuril said:
Ha, this kind of relates to the conclusion I came to in one of the threads about women in games. The stereotypes exist for literally everyone involved, and quite honestly they suck for everyone. Men don't want to be stuck between brown-haired 30-something white males and extremely effeminate boys, women don't want to be used as something that's just there to be looked at and have no real character representation, black people don't want to just be stuck with the black stereotype... I could go on, but the point is there.
More than anything, I feel the issue that we have now is not one of discrimination but one of poor writing. The writers seem to see it as a kind of "why should I put effort into coming up with a character when there are already pre-established character types I can work with?". You see this attitude a lot in games, and it's actually clear to me that the effort usually just isn't made. There are some exceptions though, like in the Persona series which actually seems to handle minorities fairly well in some ways. The female characters in those games seem really well made, and their dealing with issues of sexuality and such in Persona 4 is apparently really good though I'm yet to actually play it.
To repeat myself for a bit, I think in most cases it is a matter of playing it safe, or being forced by marketing to play it safe, as most of the typical male character problems are mostly present in the protagonist, and less so in the supporting cast. So I agree that the issue here is often is just poor writing.
Off-topic: Taking a step back and looking at the broader picture, I am actually kind of wordering if I haven't spotted the reason for why we keep having these "Female character vs. male character: Whose got it worse?"-debates.
Bear with me being a bit lazy and let me quote another poster out of context from a different thread.
evilthecat said:
There's a word the Nostalgia Chick used which I think I'm going to borrow here. The word is linets.
Love interest, non-essential to story.
Okay, so in the typical male-targeted narrative the hero saves the world and gets the girl, but in many cases other than maybe needing her to take a few plot-advancing actions which aren't driven by anything unique about her character and could be performed by any minor character with roughly the same effect, the girl doesn't really need to be there most of the time. She is often literally just there to get some boobies and a perfunctory kiss on screen.
And even if the character isn't a linets, it's often just because she's there to provide secondary motivation. "Oh no, the villain has kidnapped my girl! I mean I was going to fight him anyway because he's a dick and he's building a giant death ray to destroy the moon, but this just gives me even more motivation because now it's personal!" It's like having a support character die, it's a cheap way of ratcheting up the tension by showing that shit just got real.
Ignoring the context of which the quoted post was made in and strictly focusing on just the content what just quoted, I see this as a description of a very prevalent stock female
supporting character. Again, note that it is
supporting character. A supporting character that is very often derided for reasons you most likely already have heard of.
With the above in mind (and my reasoning for why male main characters tend to be bad) as context, I will present my hypothesis here:
When a discussion about the poor quality of female characters pops up, you will usually see somebody replying that the quality of male characters is just as bad, if not worse. Then cue the fighting where no one can find a middle ground and opinion polarization galore. And I think the reason for this predicament is that the debating parties are arguing from different perspectives.
See, if you approach this from a writer´s perspective you would a dull and uncompelling protagonist, in the case of video games mostly a male one, a bigger problem than a dull and uncompelling supporting character (which these "linets" often make for).
However, if you look at this from a "portrayal-of-women" perspective, you would find the fact that
even female
supporting characters (remember that supporting characters are supposedly where writers have some leeway to take more risk with) are portrayed dully a greater cause for alarm, especially when you consider the lack of female protagonists.
The two sides will never reach the aforemention middle ground or agree what to focus on first because of this.
I probably didn't articulate myself properly here, but such are my thoughts.