The Portrayal of Male Characters in Video Games.

[aestu]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[That_Sneaky_Camper]

That list is stupid. People like 30 something year old brown haired heroes? Their appearance has nothing to do with how good or bad their character traits are, Big Boss for example from the Metal Gear Solid series (2nd on the first row) is an extremely dynamic character that goes through a ton of character development. Sure Big Boss is a 30-something brown haired character but that is superficial and says nothing about the quality of his character. In the Metal Gear games we learn about Big Boss's thoughts and feelings through many character conversations and many meaningful Political-Military themes are delved into during his character arc. The way a character looks says very little about how they are inside.

Also I don't care about any of that nonsense where people say that a character being too macho or powerful just invokes a power fantasy. It doesn't matter if a character is powerful and capable of defeating enemies in ways that a real human being would find difficult or even impossible, so long as that character is well-written and understandable to the audience then that is all I care about.

The only problem we are actually seeing in our games is that we don't have enough characters and too many avatars, too many of these character models we are playing as in our games have very little personality and aren't written well making them lifeless and not true characters in a story. We should be seeking better writing in order to create better characters.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

That male design isn't sexist, it just boring and lazy. If it was sexist it would be Edward for twilight

 

[Grygor]

snip
So... the overwhelming majority of JRPG protagonists, then?

Also, Leon Kennedy was 21 in Resident Evil 2 - there are no doubt many other examples (see also the above-mentioned Alex Shepherd, and Michael Thorton with the recruit background pretty much has to be in his early 20s as well), this was just the first one that came to mind.

That's right, it's like a big factory.

If the protagonist is produced at a young age they ship him to Japan for Angst training but if he is in his late 20's he must be a shooty soldier man.

Yes, that is how it works.

Also, it is true. There is only 1 kind of naive and it's shit-tons of angst. There is no spectrum.

Boy am I learning a lot.

You said nothing of genre or nation of origin. You simply stated a desire for younger, more naive protagonists. You don't get to complain for any reason when I point out that they exist in droves.

But hey, you did succeed in providing another piece of evidence for the argument that young people should just be ignored, so there's that.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I don't want to derail this thread with women's issues frankly but I would be more than glad to take it to PM if you would like

So the main theme is that male characters are bland. Is that because dev's think that men like to project onto blank canvases perhaps.

Are they maybe just not getting what some guys want with that? I'd be interested to hear.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

So the main theme is that male characters are bland. Is that because dev's think that men like to project onto blank canvases perhaps.

Are they maybe just not getting what some guys want with that? I'd be interested to hear.

Define what you mean by "blank canvas" and "project onto" more specifically, please.

 

[aestu]

stereotype rather than how women are often hyper-sexualised

These bits are the key to understanding this whole issue.

Hypersexualized? According to whose standards? The standards of most women? Or a few women who try to speak for all, who perhaps don't even understand themselves?

Women define themselves through their gender identity more than men. This is why women and feminist movements always associate themselves with flowers and the color pink. This is why women spend enormous time and effort in making themselves appear physically attractive - much more so than men.

In answer to your question, the issues with male role models is that they have been perverted by trying to force a false equality between men and women, and in doing so, completely lost touch with the reality of what either gender wants.

Women and men must be equally driven by drives for power, sex, social prestige, self-image, etc, and the result is characters that are cliche, unconvincing, unreal, and contribute to the shallow irrelevance that plagues modern video gaming.

Of course society plays a major role too, as young men and women are so out-of-touch with themselves and the general human experience that they don't even know who they are or what they want, something attributable to poor parenting, poor education, and the noise and omnipresence of contemporary media.

So in effect, we have a vicious cycle that can be described most simply as bad taste. This "bad taste" (to answer the OP directly) means male characters who lack manly qualities such as courage, honor, and decency. Characters that appeal to boys and girls who have no idea nor respect for what a real man is - something directly attributable to the factors described above.

I don't want to derail this thread with women's issues frankly

It's not a derailment. I have established that those issues are relevant to this topic and to dismiss my argument without engaging it is disrespectful.

If you think my argument is in some way faulty, then go ahead - point out the faults - but you don't get to dismiss an argument "just cuz".

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

stereotype rather than how women are often hyper-sexualised

These bits are the key to understanding this whole issue.

Hypersexualized? According to whose standards? The standards of most women? Or a few women who try to speak for all, who perhaps don't even understand themselves?

Women define themselves through their gender identity more than men. This is why women and feminist movements always associate themselves with flowers and the color pink. This is why women spend enormous time and effort in making themselves appear physically attractive - much more so than men.

In answer to your question, the issues with male role models is that they have been perverted by trying to force a false equality between men and women, and in doing so, completely lost touch with the reality of what either gender wants.

Women and men must be equally driven by drives for power, sex, social prestige, self-image, etc, and the result is characters that are cliche, unconvincing, unreal, and contribute to the shallow irrelevance that plagues modern video gaming.

Of course society plays a major role too, as young men and women are so out-of-touch with themselves and the general human experience that they don't even know who they are or what they want, something attributable to poor parenting, poor education, and the noise and omnipresence of contemporary media.

So in effect, we have a vicious cycle that can be described most simply as bad taste. This "bad taste" (to answer the OP directly) means male characters who lack manly qualities such as courage, honor, and decency. Characters that appeal to boys and girls who have no idea nor respect for what a real man is - something directly attributable to the factors described above.

I don't want to derail this thread with women's issues frankly

It's not a derailment. I have established that those issues are relevant to this topic and to dismiss my argument without engaging it is disrespectful.

If you think my argument is in some way faulty, then go ahead - point out the faults - but you don't get to dismiss an argument "just cuz".

I'm not dismissing it.. I simply want this thread to be about male issues. Like I said we can take it to PM if you like

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So the main theme is that male characters are bland. Is that because dev's think that men like to project onto blank canvases perhaps.

Are they maybe just not getting what some guys want with that? I'd be interested to hear.

Define what you mean by "blank canvas" and "project onto" more specifically, please.

Well a lot of guys in this thread are saying that the male protagonist is almost a bland copy paste (please correct me if I'm mistaken). You yourself pointed out the fact that they try and spray him with bursts of emotion to make him more real.

Do you think that the devs want the protagonist to be a 'non person' to be able to almost replace the protagonist with themselves? Do you think that's effective or that it just makes the character worse?

 

[aestu]

I'm not dismissing it.. I simply want this thread to be about male issues.

And so it is. Feminism and its nefarious influence on media and education is a male issue. If you aren't willing to engage all relevant aspects of topic then don't post.

You are being disrespectful by loudly expressing your own views and interpretations as valid while making a point of dismissing others.

Devaluing the validity of others' views is bigotry and you are proving my point by doing so.

 

[aestu]

So the main theme is that male characters are bland. Is that because dev's think that men like to project onto blank canvases perhaps.

Are they maybe just not getting what some guys want with that? I'd be interested to hear.

Define what you mean by "blank canvas" and "project onto" more specifically, please.

Well a lot of guys in this thread are saying that the male protagonist is almost a bland copy paste (please correct me if I'm mistaken). You yourself pointed out the fact that they try and spray him with bursts of emotion to make him more real.

Do you think that the devs want the protagonist to be a 'non person' to be able to almost replace the protagonist with themselves? Do you think that's effective or that it just makes the character worse?

None of this is relevant. Clearly you do not understand the issue.

If you believe that you do, then establish the basis for your understanding.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

So the main theme is that male characters are bland. Is that because dev's think that men like to project onto blank canvases perhaps.

Are they maybe just not getting what some guys want with that? I'd be interested to hear.

Define what you mean by "blank canvas" and "project onto" more specifically, please.

Well a lot of guys in this thread are saying that the male protagonist is almost a bland copy paste (please correct me if I'm mistaken). You yourself pointed out the fact that they try and spray him with bursts of emotion to make him more real.

Do you think that the devs want the protagonist to be a 'non person' to be able to almost replace the protagonist with themselves? Do you think that's effective or that it just makes the character worse?

None of this is relevant. Clearly you do not understand the issue.

If you believe that you do, then establish the basis for your understanding.

I am taking it from what people have said in this thread. If I have misunderstood then please enlighten me.

I have no intention of devaluing other peoples statements I made this thread to find out what the issues are in the first place and I have read every post.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Well a lot of guys in this thread are saying that the male protagonist is almost a bland copy paste (please correct me if I'm mistaken). You yourself pointed out the fact that they try and spray him with bursts of emotion to make him more real.

Do you think that the devs want the protagonist to be a 'non person' to be able to almost replace the protagonist with themselves? Do you think that's effective or that it just makes the character worse?

It could seen as one those "safe bets", yes. Its effectiveness is more often than not questionable though. Thinking a bit more my "bursts of emotion" comment, I wonder if this sort of thing isn't an attempt by the developers at making the protagonist seem more human (and therefore more interesting), but that instead ends up being a mere caricature. This leads to a scenario where a caricature is acting out things that are intended to seen as human, but falls very flat or even rubs the player wrong way.

It is also important to point out that in a lot of cases it will more or less be near impossible project yourself into the story, given the extrordinary, fantastical, and oftentimes absurd situations you would find yourself in a lot of video games.

I would like to point out again that a character being intersting to watch often trumps being a blank slate to project yourself onto. I have made this point earlier in this thread, but in case you have missed it I will quote it right here:

On the other hand I would also question the need to actually relate to a character. I know I sure didn't really care or relate much about most main characters I have played as, but I am also not convinced that I would necessairly hold it against them.

I know he keeps popping up in these debates from time to time, but let's use Kratos as an example (again) here. Now I haven't played the God of War games so I am very much speaking from a position of ignorance here, but in any case, Kratos is very, very often described as a typical male power fantasy. And I would actually challenge that idea, to a degree a least. There may very well be kids and man-children who would really like to be him, but for myself (and what little I know of him) I could only really bring myself to care about playing further out of some kind of morbid curiosity to see what new brutality he is going to perform next.

It is for the same reason I kept reading on in Therèse Raquin. I didn't relate at all to the two main characters nor did I care about them as people (in both cases same as how I'd likely see Kratos), but because I wanted to see what boundaries they were going to overstep next. They were just simply fascinating to watch. Same with the Boss in Saints Row 2. In both these cases what the characters do is far more interesting to watch or perform.

Sidenote: While recently playing Dragon VI´s remake on the DS I am kind of starting to wonder if silent protagonists aren't a blessing in disguise, when I consider my own point about pandering main characters.

Finally, I will say one more thing about relating to characters. I do not see why men can only really relate to men or women can only really relate to women. There are some things that only men will experience and something only women will experience, but in most other cases, we share the experiences and feelings. To think that you can only truly relate to someone of your own gender seems like a very pointless, artifical wall between the sexes, and I think everyone needs to take a long hard look at themselves to if there is something they can do to tear that wall down as much as possible.

Hoo boy, that was long. Time to eat!

Well, that is all for now. Hopefully I have made some sense of this. By the way, did you catch my analysis of Kyle Hyde, one of my favorite male characters?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Yep, there is hardly much variety when it comes to guys in games, it's a shame. At least Mario is fat, he has that going for him.

He's also got a bitching mustache. Pretty hot <3