The Price of Games is TOO DAMN HIGH

[Starke]

First of all, people do work for min wage in the US and they aren't just kids. Fast food employees, retail employees, etc...

And, remember what I said? That Wal-Mart doesn't even pretend minimum wage is a living wage.

Secondly, comparing the min wage is a very fair way of doing this.

Not really, comparing average costs of living might be better.

GDP Per Cap PPP is an acceptable alternative. For Australia last year it was 40.8k AUD. For the US it was 48.1k USD. Again, for your arugment to have weight, Austraila's would need to be around 80k or the US's in the 20s. (The conversion from AUD to USD is ~ .95:1 at the moment.)

In the US people will be making $7.25 or more while in Australia they can make no less than double that amount. Third, an example price of $98 was given so that was the comparison price. Now if games in Australia are standard $120 (no one has said that)

In Australia, 120 new AAA titles is standard.

Right...

then we would be paying the same price and still they would have no ground to stand on when they come whining about our small $60 price tag.

Sure they would. An Australian Dollar is worth ninety-five cents. So even if you're arguing they're making more money, they're still being charged over twice as much.

I am frankly sick of someone from Australia dismissing complaints about the price of games in the US because they THINK they pay more. At a basic level, they are getting games for cheaper than we are.

And I'm sick of people pretending to understand economics. But, hey, what can you do, right?

Also, Food stamps don't buy games and food stamps have no bearing on my estimate that it takes a min wage employee 8 hours to pay for a new game and only 6 hours for someone in Australia making min wage. I mean if you wanna start talking about government benefits, US employees who have health care have to pay for it through their employer, automatic deductions. In Australia they have universal health care. Of course, government benefits don't matter when we are talking about how many hours one needs to work at min wage to buy a new game.

Which, again, only works if they're generating disposable income at minimum wage. The EBT comment earlier was meant to illustrate this. Australians working minimum wage are more likely to be generating disposable income at some point in the week. Americans working minimum wage are far less likely to do the same.

 

[Epona]

First of all, people do work for min wage in the US and they aren't just kids. Fast food employees, retail employees, etc...

And, remember what I said? That Wal-Mart doesn't even pretend minimum wage is a living wage.

Secondly, comparing the min wage is a very fair way of doing this.

Not really, comparing average costs of living might be better.

GDP Per Cap PPP is an acceptable alternative. For Australia last year it was 40.8k AUD. For the US it was 48.1k USD. Again, for your arugment to have weight, Austraila's would need to be around 80k or the US's in the 20s. (The conversion from AUD to USD is ~ .95:1 at the moment.)

In the US people will be making $7.25 or more while in Australia they can make no less than double that amount. Third, an example price of $98 was given so that was the comparison price. Now if games in Australia are standard $120 (no one has said that)

In Australia, 120 new AAA titles is standard.

Right...

then we would be paying the same price and still they would have no ground to stand on when they come whining about our small $60 price tag.

Sure they would. An Australian Dollar is worth ninety-five cents. So even if you're arguing they're making more money, they're still being charged over twice as much.

I am frankly sick of someone from Australia dismissing complaints about the price of games in the US because they THINK they pay more. At a basic level, they are getting games for cheaper than we are.

And I'm sick of people pretending to understand economics. But, hey, what can you do, right?

Also, Food stamps don't buy games and food stamps have no bearing on my estimate that it takes a min wage employee 8 hours to pay for a new game and only 6 hours for someone in Australia making min wage. I mean if you wanna start talking about government benefits, US employees who have health care have to pay for it through their employer, automatic deductions. In Australia they have universal health care. Of course, government benefits don't matter when we are talking about how many hours one needs to work at min wage to buy a new game.

Which, again, only works if they're generating disposable income at minimum wage. The EBT comment earlier was meant to illustrate this. Australians working minimum wage are more likely to be generating disposable income at some point in the week. Americans working minimum wage are far less likely to do the same.

All that nonsense doesn't change my comparison but whatever, people can form their own opinions.

 

[Starke]

All that nonsense doesn't change my comparison but whatever, people can form their own opinions.

Okay, here's a way of putting it you can understand. Comparing Minimum Wage is the wrong metric to use. It's like comparing the difference between miles and kilometers and saying because of that European Cars go faster.

 

[Epona]

All that nonsense doesn't change my comparison but whatever, people can form their own opinions.

Okay, here's a way of putting it you can understand. Comparing Minimum Wage is the wrong metric to use. It's like comparing the difference between miles and kilometers and saying because of that European Cars go faster.

Comparing USD (min wage) to USD (game prices) and comparing the same to each other in AUD is comparable.

You work for 8 hours in the US at min wage and you can buy a game.
You work for 6 hours in Australia at min wage and you can buy a game.

There is no big conspiracy to overcharge Australians.

 

[Starke]

All that nonsense doesn't change my comparison but whatever, people can form their own opinions.

Okay, here's a way of putting it you can understand. Comparing Minimum Wage is the wrong metric to use. It's like comparing the difference between miles and kilometers and saying because of that European Cars go faster.

Comparing USD (min wage) to USD (game prices) and comparing the same to each other in AUD is comparable.

It really isn't. Minimum Wage is not set by any market factor whatsoever. It's a policy generated number. While comparing Minimum Wage figures can yield you useful information, what it won't yield is overall market health or strength. It will tell you how much or little a nation values it's citizens, as will other social welfare programs. But it won't tell you if making 1k a month is enough to squeak by.

If you want to compare the price of a good in two countries, you need to use other statistics, statistics like cost of living, currency exchange rates, Purchase Power Parity. Hell, you can fake cost of living expenses if you have average rent cost statistics, or even just food pricing statistics.

But, since you insist on using that ridiculous metric, let's do some quick math. The Australian economy is about 84% as strong as the US on an individual basis (again, using GDPCapPPP).

Just accounting for the exchange rate, Australians make $16.24 an hour, once you adjust to account for their economy, and you get a relative amount of $19.14. That is, to make Australian minimum wage in the United States you need to pull down nearly 20/hr.

So, unless you're assuming American minimum wage is 20 bucks an hour, in which case it takes about 3 hours to get a game, vs 6 hours in Australia where it costs twice as much... huh, funny that...

Again, in case this is too complex for you to understand, Minimum Wage has nothing to do with cost of living, or relative economic impact, and everything to do with the level of a government's social welfare commitment.

Given your fondness for wiki: Here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_vs._nominal_in_economics].

You work for 8 hours in the US at min wage and you can buy a game.
You work for 6 hours in Australia at min wage and you can buy a game.

There is no big conspiracy to overcharge Australians.

Of course there isn't. It isn't a conspiracy in the slightest. It's a protectionist government policy regarding import tariffs, yes, this has all been discussed before. The funniest part is, the party who is actually at fault here is the Australian Government. Not some shadowy conspiracy of American publishers.

 

[J Tyran]

No. No, the price is not too high. No one forces you to buy the DLC, 60$ is less than games costed on NES and you don't have to resort to big titles only. My best gaming expiriences of the last years came for a big part from <20? titles.

NES games were $50 and there was no DLC. Now maybe you do math differently than I do but I do believe that $60+ is more than $50.

Back in the NES days $50 was a great expenditure than $60 is today.

I just love how many times inflation gets brought up in threads like this. Ok so, how much do you want to be paying for games?

The current prices for games are fine imo (in my country at least)If I want a brand new AAA release I know its going to set me back £30-40, if its a game I can wait it will pop up on Steam in a sale in a few months, for console releases they soon drop in price at online retailers.

Even £35 or so isn't a great expense, compared to the cost of a Blu Ray that lasts two hours even short linear games usually last 6-10 hours. Sometimes a game sucks but that happens with any form of entertainment, countless times I have paid £8 or so at the cinema and the films turned out to be awful.

 

[distortedreality]

All that nonsense doesn't change my comparison but whatever, people can form their own opinions.

Amazingly, what you call "nonsense" was much more informative than anything you've said in this thread, and i'll form my opinion on that.

captcha - that's enough.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

You got that many bugs because you accepted them. The game being unplayable on the PS3 for many is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Bethesda thought they could get away with it though because people were accepting of so many bugs in their past games. So, have they fixed alot of the bugs by now? If so, they should have done that BEFORE release.

I don't even want to imagine how much money they put into Skyrim but an unplayable game (PS3) isn't worth $10 much less $60.

Wow, you really think it's that easy to play-test a game like Skyrim completely? As to the PS3 having a game breaking bug, I don't know what went on there and neither do you but do you really think Bethesda was hoping no one would notice? Are you stupid? I can think of an innumerable amount of reasons why a bug of that size could slip past play-testing. Further, the game is fine on every other platform and even all the bugs with the game aren't really as bad as people make it. I play it on the 360 and it's somewhat rare that I'll come across any bug at all. And even on the PS3 version of Skyrim, the game-breaking bugs don't start until 20+ hours in and even THEN, it's definitely not a guarantee that you'll even see the bug at all.

Even FURTHER, you do realize they only have so much time to make this game, right? They can only play-test for so long before they HAVE to ship, PERIOD.

Nevertheless, I completely understand you not wanting to pay money for the game when it's really bugged for the PS3 however, to base your whole opinion of the game on that, even when it's now all fixed is downright ridiculous.

 

[Lordmarkus]

It very much depend on what you get for said price you pay.

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 for 45 ? on release. Played the 5-hour SP and has since laid sulky in my steam library. Not worth it
Battlefield: Bad Company 2 - Ultimate Edition for 25 ?. Already owned it for PC but wanted to try out Battlefield 1943. Found it a couple of days later for 10 ?. Have played it for less than an hour and my Live-subscription expires in July and I have no intention of renewing it. Not worth it

Mass Effect 3: Collector's Edition for 70 ? on release. Have finished it 2,5 times and planning on at least 2 more. Worth it
Medal of Honor with Battlefield 3 beta for 7 ? a year after release. Couple of hours maybe plus early Battlefield 3 beta. Worth it
Assassin's Creed 2 for 5 ? half a year after PC release. One playthrough on something 15-20 hours. Loved the game to bits. Worth it
Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition for maybe 30 ?, found it a week later for 15 ?. Still got 90+ h of a single playthrough with all DLC left. Worth it

 

[Starke]

Mass Effect 3: Collector's Edition for 70 ? on release. Have finished it 2,5 times and planning on at least 2 more. Worth it

Oddly, I burned out after my third play through. It's not bad, but it is... I don't know, tactically unsatisfying? It wasn't even the ending. That offended me enough to loathe the story, but somehow after three trips through, even that didn't satisfy, and the whole thing retroactively gained a kind of meh quality.

Anyway, sorry, slightly off topic and musing...

 

[Lordmarkus]

Mass Effect 3: Collector's Edition for 70 ? on release. Have finished it 2,5 times and planning on at least 2 more. Worth it

Oddly, I burned out after my third play through. It's not bad, but it is... I don't know, tactically unsatisfying? It wasn't even the ending. That offended me enough to loathe the story, but somehow after three trips through, even that didn't satisfy, and the whole thing retroactively gained a kind of meh quality.

Anyway, sorry, slightly off topic and musing...

Well I still loved the game, despite the ending. Hell, for me the ending fits if I choose the red cut-scene. Sure, I would take the rumored Suicide mission style ending any day of the week but for the moment, the current one works.

I was able to fire of two playthroughs and one where I started mid-through to try out different choices and romances. This was before BioWare fixed the fucking import-bug so I'm just replaying Mass Effect 2 so I can finally get my proper Mass Effect 3 experience.

As a side note, I don't find the game a chore, maybe it will after my third play through but the character interaction and the M-99 Saber is enough for me to keep playing.

 

[Starke]

Mass Effect 3: Collector's Edition for 70 ? on release. Have finished it 2,5 times and planning on at least 2 more. Worth it

Oddly, I burned out after my third play through. It's not bad, but it is... I don't know, tactically unsatisfying? It wasn't even the ending. That offended me enough to loathe the story, but somehow after three trips through, even that didn't satisfy, and the whole thing retroactively gained a kind of meh quality.

Anyway, sorry, slightly off topic and musing...

Well I still loved the game, despite the ending. Hell, for me the ending fits if I choose the red cut-scene. Sure, I would take the rumored Suicide mission style ending any day of the week but for the moment, the current one works.

I was able to fire of two playthroughs and one where I started mid-through to try out different choices and romances. This was before BioWare fixed the fucking import-bug so I'm just replaying Mass Effect 2 so I can finally get my proper Mass Effect 3 experience.

As a side note, I don't find the game a chore, maybe it will after my third play through but the character interaction and the M-99 Saber is enough for me to keep playing.

Yeah, for me the M-98 Indra was the one that kicked over into gleeful psychotic laughter. The Saber never seemed like a good loadout choice, simply because of the weight.

I never really cared about the story, ME2 killed that for me, with the giant space terminator baby boss. There was some great spectacle. So, I'm really not sure why I'm looking at the game now and thinking, meh, before I go back to an MMO of all things.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

That actually explains it; the Canadian dollar was a lot weaker at the time, and Canadian prices were higher than US prices. I remember books always having prices listed for both markets, and the Canadian price was always a lot more than the U.S. price. If Canadian videogames have come down to match U.S. videogames, you may honestly be paying less in that market, although maybe not so much adjusted by the current exchange rate (the two dollars have been neck and neck for years now.)

Edit: Although at $85, your local store was probably still ripping you off, just not as horribly as it would be if that was $85 USD.

Yeah, the two dollars are pretty close nowadays, but there was a pretty huge disparity back in the nineties. A lot of Americans from the northern States regularly crossed the border for the sole purpose of buying gas. Now I have Canadian acquaintances who do the reverse when it's time for them to hit Wal-Mart, which is rather pathetic and sad.

I'm pretty sure I was being ripped off but hey, I was in my early teens when Diablo II came out. I honestly couldn't care less about how unfair the price was, back at the time.

Customer sensibility and general wisdom tends to be something that comes into play much later. In the immediate, all I could think about was "DIABLO 2 NEED, NEED, WANT NAO!"

 

[Starke]

Australia has nearly double the minimal wage of the USA... so they aren't so bad off as people think. They even get to ride kangaroos to and from work!

*straight face

Research is da bomb, yo.

When you account for buying power, it's actually slightly under three times higher. But, Aussies are being "ripped off" by their own government... moving on...

 

[ResonanceSD]

Some might think other's would tire of hearing people complain how overpriced games are in the USA... Current prices are as follows for a generic AAA title... say, Skyrim.

Britain : 34.99 GBP = 56.91 USD.
USA : 59.99 USD = 59.99 USD.
Australia : 89.99 AUD = 94.26 USD.

Now put on a straight face, and complain again about the overpriced video games of your country. Did you actually do ANY kind of research before you complain? If not, and this was a poor attempt at humour, then 0/10.

Have a nice day.

Australia has nearly double the minimal wage of the USA... so they aren't so bad off as people think.

I think someone on minimum wage should not be buying games, regardless of which country they're in. How about working to get a job that isn't terrible being a bigger priority? Games are a luxury item. As an Aussie, I've stopped using Steam to buy games, given the ridiculous prices on there. I get my games from ozgameshop instead. Same games, 1/2 price.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Some might think other's would tire of hearing people complain how overpriced games are in the USA... Current prices are as follows for a generic AAA title... say, Skyrim.

Britain : 34.99 GBP = 56.91 USD.
USA : 59.99 USD = 59.99 USD.
Australia : 89.99 AUD = 94.26 USD.

Now put on a straight face, and complain again about the overpriced video games of your country. Did you actually do ANY kind of research before you complain? If not, and this was a poor attempt at humour, then 0/10.

Have a nice day.

Australia has nearly double the minimal wage of the USA... so they aren't so bad off as people think.

I think someone on minimum wage should not be buying games, regardless of which country they're in. How about working to get a job that isn't terrible being a bigger priority? Games are a luxury item. As an Aussie, I've stopped using Steam to buy games, given the ridiculous prices on there. I get my games from ozgameshop instead. Same games, 1/2 price.

I hear ya, but one day worth of work at minimum wage is enough to buy a game (maybe an hour or two more depending on taxes ect). Games are a luxury item, without a doubt. I make more than the minimum wage with two jobs working almost 60 hours a week, (pats self on back) but for anyone else: Is a days worth of work so unreasonable for the quality of games being made now?

If it's shovelware, send a message to the dev by NOT BUYING IT. Christ, how hard can it be?

 

[Robert Ewing]

True, games are waaay too pricey. I think they should be about double the price of films give or take. £60 for one game is a freaking steep deal. So let's do the math.

If you're a video game collector (like some people are) And you wanted a wealth of video games that you got at the stock price of £60 at the time of release. Let's take all the video games rated by PEGI. Which is a few, but nowhere near all of them.

9841

times that by 60.

9841 x 60 = £590 460!!!!

That is $958,419.67

I'm sorry, but until games get as cheap as books or films, fuck being a collector. waaaay over a million dollars for all the shitty games. Not including consoles and stuff.