The 'Provocative Clothing' Rape Defense

[Abomination]

And both are dependent upon your fun little "If I was a rapist" thought exercise, which - in case you were wondering - still holds about as much water as a sieve.

Explain how.

Because it's based on anecdotal evidence.

Which is another logical fallacy, just like the burden of proof issue that boots has already raised.

The burden of proof is on the less likely of situations. To state that no man ever has raped someone because of what they wore is far more extreme than to state it has happened.

The presence of a mind such as my own could not be said to be unique either.

The logical fallacy doesn't apply to the claim that aliens exist either, simply due to the billions of stars and the sheer possibility outweighing any potential probability.

Of course how many that would be required to cause a statistical trend is up in the air as methods of detection have not been devised.

 

[Thaluikhain]

THREAD INTERVAL

Ladies and gentlemen, the thread will recommence in approximately five minutes. Please take your seats.

Spoiler

BONUS:

Heh. Was just going to post:

Spoiler

Seemed appropriate

 

[Boris Goodenough]

THREAD INTERVAL

I kinda find it weird because men are just as likely to get assaulted as women (and in some countries even more so) yet it is only seen as women suffering because of it.
Men don't fear being assaulted as women, it then stands to reason women don't get assaulted as much as men is because they avoid dangerous areas more due to the fear, or well at least one of the contributing factors.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I kinda find it weird because men are just as likely to get assaulted as women (and in some countries even more so) yet it is only seen as women suffering because of it.

Men don't get sexually assaulted simply for being men nearly as much as women are.

Men don't fear being assaulted as women, it then stands to reason women don't get assaulted as much as men is because they avoid dangerous areas more due to the fear, or well at least one of the contributing factors.

...

If I'm understanding you correctly...no.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Men don't get sexually assaulted simply for being men nearly as much as women are.

Was talking about the fear of going outside and being assaulted in general, not "only" rape.

Because men get assaulted more often than women, so the issue Tatsuya is raising seems to make it look like women are being singled out for violence, or is it that women fear rape more? I mean otherwise saying feminist in front of Utopia seems redundant, I mean we all wish we wouldn't have to think about ever being assaulted.

No.

Bah, "...as much as..." otherwise it makes little sense. Why wouldn't it make sense to some degree? If men walk around shady areas/times more often than women doesn't it mean statistically they are more likely to encounter wrong-doing?
So why do men get assaulted more often(legitimate question not actually a baiting one)? Is it because the assailants enjoy the battle more than the victory (assuming none-rape)? Is it because men often deal in more shady business than women? All of the above?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Was talking about the fear of going outside and being assaulted in general, not "only" rape.

Because men get assaulted more often than women, so the issue Tatsuya is raising seems to make it look like women are being singled out for violence, or is it that women fear rape more? I mean otherwise saying feminist in front of Utopia seems redundant, I mean we all wish we wouldn't have to think about ever being assaulted.

Singled out for violence simply due to their sex, yes. Men aren't generally attacked simply for being men. Notable exception of active long term warzones, where mass killings of military aged men is carried out.

If men walk around shady areas/times more often than women doesn't it mean statistically they are more likely to encounter wrong-doing?

Providing that assaults are caused by walking round the wrong place. This isn't the case with assaults on women, can't speak for men off the top of my head.

So why do men get assaulted more often(legitimate question not actually a baiting one)? Is it because the assailants enjoy the battle more than the victory (assuming none-rape)? Is it because men often deal in more shady business than women? All of the above?

IMHO, there's a lot of testosterone poisoning going on there, though I've not got figures to hand.

 

[Smeatza]

snip

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Does anyone have any links to scientific studies that show that rape is never anything to do with sexual attraction?

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Singled out for violence simply due to their sex, yes. Men aren't generally attacked simply for being men.

So, it makes it better to be assault for just violence rather than ones gender/sex? (This is the issue I have with the term "hate crimes", it makes random senseless violence better than specified senseless violence.)
The argument would then be women would hardly be assaulted if there was no sexism but why do they get assaulted less in a sexist world then if they are being singled out for being women? And about rape, if there was no sexism there would still be a fraction left, I think it was 1 in 33 men I saw when last looking through some articles who had been sexually assaulted (I assume there is a overrepresentation of "man on man rape" over "woman on man rape" and that "man on man rape" has little ground in feminism in terms of victim targeting).

Notable exception of active long term warzones, where mass killings of military aged men is carried out.

I don't think warzones are on our minds when we talk about/record assault statistics, other than rape of course.

IMHO, there's a lot of testosterone poisoning going on there, though I've not got figures to hand.

Well, woman doing violence has been on rise as of late, so we might see equality there...

 

[Phasmal]

Spoiler

BONUS:

That's bullshit, or that comic was made by a dude.
If women actually thought like that , the book wouldn't sell 50 million copies.

Women can only have ONE opinion!
Oh my.
Palm, meet Face.

 

[Phasmal]

Spoiler

BONUS:

That's bullshit, or that comic was made by a dude.
If women actually thought like that , the book wouldn't sell 50 million copies.

Women can only have ONE opinion!
Oh my.
Palm, meet Face.

Yup they do, and that is:
"Taking everything said as literal, without interpretation".

Sorry for replying to what you actually said.
Next time, try writing what you mean, and maybe it won't sound so silly.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm sorry you don't understand subtext and need everything explained. Life must be hard

It's easier with super helpful people like yourself to tell me about women.
Anywwwwwaaaaaay, we could probably snark at each other all day but I'm gonna call it here.
It's been fun though.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

Actually, I have thought of one clothing choice that could prevent rape.

What if we got everyone to wear bomb suits? It'd be impossible to bone in one of these.

 

[Smeatza]

Guess you didn't get the memo about "proving a negative", huh?

Not relevant to my question. You seem to be maintaining the position that sexual attraction is never anything to do with a sexual act (rape).
In fact evidence of absence is much more relevant to your position here.

We've already provided links to plenty of studies that looked at rape statistics and things that rapists target (no, I'm not posting them again, go back and read through the thread).

12 pages? Not my idea of fun.

We've already given evidence to show that stranger rape is the rarest form of rape in the first place, and that the primary thing that opportunistic rapists look for in a target is opportunity and vulnerability. The only connection that's ever been found between the victim's perceived personality and the rapist's decision to target them is an air of shyness or fearfulness, which is part of the "vulnerability" aspect of targeting and actually runs completely contrary to the idea that rapists target victims who look sexually confident or outgoing.

I have already agreed to all of this, and I remember having wrote that before. I've seen nothing that indicates that sexual attraction is never anything to do with any rape anywhere.

All I disagree with are the sensational, blanket statements. "Rape is nothing to do with sexual attraction" for example.

You do realize you're shifting the goal posts with that question, don't you? It's quite dishonest. The argument was about clothing, not sexual attraction.

As far as I'm concerned our part of the discussion is over. I don't see how asking an unrelated question, like 6 pages on is moving the goal posts. I only quoted you three in as you seemed to be quite well informed.