The right to bear arms / Do we really need a survey to tell us this?
- Thread starter thebrainiac1
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This.Thamous said:
If your willing to commit a crime your going to do so even if guns arent legal, come on guys.
Out of curiosity, if you had to weight out gun crime vs non-gun crime, which would you chose?. More to the point, which one gives you the greatest chance of surviving if you were the victim?xnickx5757 said:
I bet if this were a discussion about the first amendment and the dangers of misinformation, everyone here would be arguing that a right to total free speech is better than having no first amendment, even if it means people getting hurt.
You're missing the basic point here, Hardcore.Hardcore_gamer said:
I have the right to defend myself and my property. He has no such right to kill me, or rob me. He gave it up when he tried to mug me. In essence, regardless of how wise the course of action may be, I still have the right to defend myself. If that leads to me being shot in the face, well, that's him murdering me, and both our problems. If it leads to me shooting him, then that's another mugger dead. No real loss, though surely an unpleasant experience.
What I'm trying to say is, yes, it may be stupid to try and defend yourself. But it's still an invioable right, and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise!
Well they might not care, but they'll have a much harder time procuring them, while many crimes like bank robberies and murders will be carried out by professionals with connections and money. The majority of crimes such as muggings and burglaries will still be committed by the poor and desperate who will not be able to get guns easily or legally, I'm much happier in the UK knowing some junkie can't get hold of a gun by stealing it/buying it and then shooting me for my money. Also criminals will not feel the need to risk carrying a gun if they know it can A. get them arrested and B. know that no-one else will be carrying one. Sure crimes may still occur but there's less chance of someone getting there head blown off due to itchy fingers.Thamous said:
Wow, all the bad logic on both sides. But this particular ludicrous response made me laugh more than the others:
The culture is different here in the US. Most of our criminals don't hesitate to carry or use guns because they are seen as symbols of power or wealth. Most violent shooting deaths in the US are not exactly done for profit or possessions, but for gang-related or pride related reasons. Gun violence will always exist at a fairly moderate level because there are other issues at play (underfunded police units, a large market for illegal weapons, elevated drug trade, etc.)
If you look at the culture in Britain, Japan and Canada, the cultural differences work in favor of gun control, and thus, it is a viable option. As long as the criminal culture in those countries don't make a step to increase the illegal gun trade and see guns as a power icon. People from other countries need to observe the culture in other countries to understand why gun control works or doesn't work before criticizing it.
How do you propose to take the guns off the streets? We tried gun bans, we have the DEA preventing as many gun sales - especially over state lines - as possible and we also use various methods of detecting people carrying guns into sensitive areas. Yet, criminals still get and use guns in the United States on an increasing basis, regardless of whether or not states allow citizens to carry guns. It has nothing to do with citizens carrying legal, licensed guns. Criminals intending to use guns can get guns easily.Dragonearl said:
The culture is different here in the US. Most of our criminals don't hesitate to carry or use guns because they are seen as symbols of power or wealth. Most violent shooting deaths in the US are not exactly done for profit or possessions, but for gang-related or pride related reasons. Gun violence will always exist at a fairly moderate level because there are other issues at play (underfunded police units, a large market for illegal weapons, elevated drug trade, etc.)
If you look at the culture in Britain, Japan and Canada, the cultural differences work in favor of gun control, and thus, it is a viable option. As long as the criminal culture in those countries don't make a step to increase the illegal gun trade and see guns as a power icon. People from other countries need to observe the culture in other countries to understand why gun control works or doesn't work before criticizing it.
If we can't defend ourselves, what gives the police the right to?
You are talking about gun control. Contrary to some of opinions out there, gun control does not control guns. It controls who LEGALLY can carry a gun.
Here are some facts you should consider before banning guns.
1. Criminals would not be affected by banning guns, they already have access to guns, they already have guns, and they will always be able to get guns. Banning guns would only affect people's ability to buy them LEGALLY.
2. If you ban guns, then you effecively put the use of guns into the hands of either the government or criminals, as they would be the only people with access. I am not an anti-government freak, but I also do not trust the government with that kind of power. The government already has enough power, and the people have to little. The entire reason America was founded was to give power to the people, and yet here we are, all to willing to give it back.
3. When a criminal act is forced upon you, your chances of survival actually INCREASE, when you are armed. The theory that a criminal would have no reason to kill you if you aren't armed is ridiculous. The criminal has a gun going into the act, and is prepared to use it. But, when the criminal is faced with his/her own mortality, they usually run away. This is not just my opinion either, it is a fact backed up by statistics.
4. The people who would be most affected by banning guns, are law abiding citizens. These people buy guns for sport, protection, or simply because they like guns. They have no interest in killing people, they have no interest in criminal acts. The reality that a few people who buy guns legally, go on to commit criminal acts, does not even compare to the overwhelming amount of people who buy guns, and never use them violently.
Gun control is only popular because of the reasonablly small amount of people who buy guns legally and then use the gun to commit a criminal act. I am not against background checks, or tighter restrictions on who can carry a gun. I think a psycological test might be a good idea before allowing someone to buy a gun.
You are talking about gun control. Contrary to some of opinions out there, gun control does not control guns. It controls who LEGALLY can carry a gun.
Here are some facts you should consider before banning guns.
1. Criminals would not be affected by banning guns, they already have access to guns, they already have guns, and they will always be able to get guns. Banning guns would only affect people's ability to buy them LEGALLY.
2. If you ban guns, then you effecively put the use of guns into the hands of either the government or criminals, as they would be the only people with access. I am not an anti-government freak, but I also do not trust the government with that kind of power. The government already has enough power, and the people have to little. The entire reason America was founded was to give power to the people, and yet here we are, all to willing to give it back.
3. When a criminal act is forced upon you, your chances of survival actually INCREASE, when you are armed. The theory that a criminal would have no reason to kill you if you aren't armed is ridiculous. The criminal has a gun going into the act, and is prepared to use it. But, when the criminal is faced with his/her own mortality, they usually run away. This is not just my opinion either, it is a fact backed up by statistics.
4. The people who would be most affected by banning guns, are law abiding citizens. These people buy guns for sport, protection, or simply because they like guns. They have no interest in killing people, they have no interest in criminal acts. The reality that a few people who buy guns legally, go on to commit criminal acts, does not even compare to the overwhelming amount of people who buy guns, and never use them violently.
Gun control is only popular because of the reasonablly small amount of people who buy guns legally and then use the gun to commit a criminal act. I am not against background checks, or tighter restrictions on who can carry a gun. I think a psycological test might be a good idea before allowing someone to buy a gun.
Finally, a person from the UK who understands.Insanum said:
That's why I said this (and I'll re-emphasize):
Which apparently some people are doing, but the bias towards criticizing a culture profusely hasn't let up since I took a break from these forums.McClaud said:
So how can removing guns be a bad move?.xnickx5757 said:
Clearly the US haven't tried a more affective means of removing the weapons from the owners. The problem in truth is not that guns can't be taken of the street, because they can. It is that most people don't want to give up their guns because they see it as a threat to a very old right that they have but never really use for it's intended purpose, called the second amendment. That plus people also go hunting. They see any attempt to remove guns as a problem and politicians don't like to upset their voting puppets.McClaud said:
Think about, hypothetically, if the guns were taken off the streets or even regulated there will be a massive reduction in crime. There wouldn't even be all those high school shootings. The problem clearly is that people have got carried away with their rights to bear arms. It was originally intended for civilians to protect the state and freedom from attack all those years ago. Now though, with no less than 25 different US armed forces groups in existence there is little need for a civilian armada. People just abuse the right to go down the street and shoot rusty bean cans and other people.
Britain and Japan don't have guns for public use (I don't know about Canada) and their gun related crimes are no where near the US reports. There clearly is an issue here but no one will do anything about it.
Funny how this issue goes and comes.
I will just set my thoughs straight:
I think guns are bad;
I think civilians shouldn't be allowed to have guns unless extremely necessary (like living into the wild);
I think a lot of tragedies would be avoided if only the military could carry gun;
No one is prepared to be mugged, so the thief will have the surprise element over you anyway.
About the article, the study is only beggining. Initial statistics, although important, can't assure nothing.
But as I stated above, I don't like guns. We would be better without them.
I will just set my thoughs straight:
I think guns are bad;
I think civilians shouldn't be allowed to have guns unless extremely necessary (like living into the wild);
I think a lot of tragedies would be avoided if only the military could carry gun;
No one is prepared to be mugged, so the thief will have the surprise element over you anyway.
About the article, the study is only beggining. Initial statistics, although important, can't assure nothing.
But as I stated above, I don't like guns. We would be better without them.
Hey guys, why not ban cars? They kill thousands of people every year, we know for a fact that some people drive recklessly and with little to no concern for the safety of others (I live in Atlanta, ladies and gentlemen, don't tell me any place on Earth has crazier drivers), and there's no amendment protecting one's right to a car.
While we're at it, let's ban violent video games! There's plenty of biased, sketchy, self-congratulating studies suggesting that teen violence is linked to violent video games, let's make the world a safer place!
oh god not annother one of these damn ban all gunz tey kill us all!!! nonsence.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Weather that makes any sence with the discusion it doesnt matter, this is what im going to say when someone quotes me so im just saying it now.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Weather that makes any sence with the discusion it doesnt matter, this is what im going to say when someone quotes me so im just saying it now.