The Secret World

[Maeshone]

Again though, this is a question of optics and perception. It does not matter that the two cash shops are comparables, because the games are NOT. WoW was an established industry titan with an enormous and captive player base. TSW is a brand new game with a new IP and a developer with a reputation for shaky launches. It needs to ward off not only the larger and more heavily advertised GW2, but also MoP, in the months immediately following its release.

If you have a long time friend, who you've known for many years, and that friend asks to borrow money, you'd likely not think much of it. Now imagine you have a new friend you've known for only a day, and they are also asking to borrow money. This is TSW and the cash shop.

Funcom is in a very vulnerable position with TSW. They need to be doing every thing they can to marry subscribers to their product, because they face one of the most ugly lineups of competition I've ever seen a new MMO exposed to. The sub drop-off for new MMOs tends to be between 50-80% after the free month, WITHOUT competition. Games that have a Blizzard expansion dropped on them have lost up to 90%. TSW has that, and then some, to look forward to.

ANYTHING they do that puts people off buying or staying is playing with fire.

I see your point, and yeah, I actually agree with it. I do hope TSW does well though, since I haven't had this much fun in an MMO since I first played WoW back in vanilla.

 

[MDSnowman]

I love how the escapist hive mind hits again. EA is not publishing, it's just distributing. Funcom PAYS them just to have boxes on shelves and whatnot.

I love the game, it actually has originality for an mmo, although the pvp is really sub-par, which saddens me a bit (I do hope they will improve it in the future). Like someone said above, it is to pve what Guild Wars 2 will be to pvp, which will be a nice balance for me.

Also, yes, it is pricey, but I'd rather pay that than play any free to play at the moment with the only exception of guild wars 2. Seriously, free to play only block your brain from thinking the game is bad only because you don't spend money, even if the game itself will cheapen out at every corner (as it always has been the case). Plus it's a good filter for an acceptable community.

To be fair I think there's more venom over the retail price + subscription + micro transactions thing. EA hate is just the poorly informed frosting on top.

The IP looks interesting, but I have no real desire to pick up another MMO. I don't have the time, and I sure as hell can't afford another subscription fee every month. The truth is I would have likely bought this if it hadn't been a MMO.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I see your point, and yeah, I actually agree with it. I do hope TSW does well though, since I haven't had this much fun in an MMO since I first played WoW back in vanilla.

I hope it does well too. While I preferred GW2 of the two betas, more games I like is a better situation than one game I like and one disaster. I've been intrigued by TSW for a long time, and it'd be nice to have it as a fall back. I am legitimately worried about it though, it's in a really, really sketchy spot in terms of the competition it needs to deal with.

 

[Syzygy23]

Oh, no, I totally get what you're saying. F2P will invariably rely on microtransactions, which means the main game can end up feeling... incomplete.

Also, I did not know they offered that lifetime subscription thing. The ability to pay a larger up front sum for what is essentially as you described (Pricier Guild Wars) might sway me, depending on if that is a package deal with the initial purchase or not.

Unfortunately the game is not included in the lifetime subscription, so it'll cost you 250 dollars for that. What is included is one free name reservation and an additional character slot, as well as some experience potions.

*spits out drink violently* TWO HUNDRED AND FIF-

Yeah, no, FUCK that funcom. Your game may be good, but it isn't 250 dollars good. I don't know any game that is.

 

[shintakie10]

Oh, no, I totally get what you're saying. F2P will invariably rely on microtransactions, which means the main game can end up feeling... incomplete.

Also, I did not know they offered that lifetime subscription thing. The ability to pay a larger up front sum for what is essentially as you described (Pricier Guild Wars) might sway me, depending on if that is a package deal with the initial purchase or not.

Unfortunately the game is not included in the lifetime subscription, so it'll cost you 250 dollars for that. What is included is one free name reservation and an additional character slot, as well as some experience potions.

*spits out drink violently* TWO HUNDRED AND FIF-

Yeah, no, FUCK that funcom. Your game may be good, but it isn't 250 dollars good. I don't know any game that is.

Most lifetime subs are in that range. I think that might actually be considered cheap

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Personally, I prefer P2P games myself. It's just a feeling, but to me P2P games just feel more complete. You know what the game holds and you know exactly what you are getting for your money. Without the pressure to buy additions.

I agree, I am playing TSW and I think the sub is more than justified and yeah, P2P is better imo.

Whilst I still do play LOTRO I don't really like what the Turbine store has done to that game. Thankfully, TSW so far is doing a good job with the cash shop, it's extremely optional and doesn't give gameplay enhancements.

f2p is an oxymoron (funny that everyone always claims they never buy stuff in those games yet the average spend per user tends to be higher than a subscription charge) and, ultimately, I think f2p is going to ruin MMOs eventually.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Whilst I still do play LOTRO I don't really like what the Turbine store has done to that game. Thankfully, TSW so far is doing a good job with the cash shop, it's extremely optional and doesn't give gameplay enhancements.

f2p is an oxymoron (funny that everyone always claims they never buy stuff in those games yet the average spend per user tends to be higher than a subscription charge) and, ultimately, I think f2p is going to ruin MMOs eventually.

I'm wary of cash shops too, but Turbine is a terrible example of the worst excesses imaginable. LOTRO's cash shop is God's punishment for an evil world. The cash shop in GW2 is completely tame and arguably no more essential or high impact than the one in TSW...which also carries a sub fee.

 

[Tayh]

...And published by EA, so they still end up with some of the money.

So buy the frigging digital version.
Damnit!
Whatever man, I don't care anymore - go be paranoid all you want, I'm too tired of this ignorance.

 

[lord.jeff]

I never liked the monthly fee in games it just doesn't work for my schedule and play style, sometimes I only get one weekend or two a month to play games and whenever I had a subscription I'd feel I'd have to use that weekend to get my moneys worth instead of just playing whatever I wanted.

 

[Schadrach]

Doesn't it cost 60 dollars in retail? And a subscription fee to play? AND you have to pay money if you want to have more than 3 characters?

Yeah, fuck that.

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons. Imagine (from a WoW perspective) that all tanks wore the same basic gear, all healers wore the same basic gear, and all DPS wore the same basic gear. Now imagine you could, for free at any time and place you are out of combat, respec your Protection Warrior into a Fire Mage, or maybe an Affliction Warlock, or a Subtlety Rogue, or how about a Restoration Druid, maybe a Ret/Prot Paladin hybrid build for soloing? Once you pay the AP to learn the abilities (which come faster than you think, and the basic abilities for each weapon are dirt cheap, and the passives are really good cross-weapon, and the advanced abilities aren't generically more powerful, they are more specialized), you can switch when you feel like it. There's even a mechanic that let's you save your favorite specs along with the gear you are using them with, and keep a fairly arbitrary number of such setups.

Who wants to bet that they will eventually release a raid fight with phases where you drop OOC in between phases and are expected to reconfigure the raid?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons.

Technically there's no real reason to have less than 3 either, except that the company saw an opportunity to make money.

Anyone who likes aesthetically different characters is going to be up against the wall. 3 slots is extremely low for a game charging a sub.

 

[Thandran]

No reason to have more than three, except for RP reasons.

Technically there's no real reason to have less than 3 either, except that the company saw an opportunity to make money.

Anyone who likes aesthetically different characters is going to be up against the wall. 3 slots is extremely low for a game charging a sub.

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

8 per server, and no limitation on how many servers you can join. So...uh...how many servers are in WoW? Let's say 200. 1600 slots.

Now, a WoW character =/= a TSW character as established, but that does not mean that 3 slots isn't still a ludicrously stingy restriction with the clear intention of driving cash shop sales for extra slots. Which is FINE. If you don't charge a SUB FEE.

 

[Syzygy23]

Because I don't know ... how many slots were you given in WoW? It's been ages since I've played. To compare.

On topic:

Looks like an interesting game. Though I'm more waiting for GW2.

8 per server, and no limitation on how many servers you can join. So...uh...how many servers are in WoW? Let's say 200. 1600 slots.

Now, a WoW character =/= a TSW character as established, but that does not mean that 3 slots isn't still a ludicrously stingy restriction with the clear intention of driving cash shop sales for extra slots. Which is FINE. If you don't charge a SUB FEE.

And herein lies the problem.

There's an entry fee, a monthly fee (unless you just happen to have 250 smackaroos you can toss away) AND an item shop.

It feels like the game's development was so expensive that Funcom is lashing out in desperation, attempting to make a profit at any cost, even if it means putting microtransactions in a non-free-to-play game with cover charge.

 

[SweetShark]

Whaaatttt...
I though if you buy the game then you can paly it for free....
Just make it free to play when you buy the things like Guild Wars...

Anyway, being Secret World a new IP I don't think EA would allowed to give to us a "hollow" game.......so soon...

However, You should expect a lot of DLC for this games cause of the concept the game have.
Imagine how many different legends and myths the developers can use to expand the length of the game. I would love to see a map that invovled a mission in Greece ^^

Also about the DRM........yeeeaaahhhh.......if the game have, f*ck this game...I hate this kind of polishy...

...It is an MMO. Of COURSE it has DRM. What rock have you been living under?

....Damn, you are right...

Spoiler

I don't what I was thinking back then...I forgot about that.
Never was a MMO player. The only MMO I played is Path of Exile, but even then I play it only solo.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And herein lies the problem.

There's an entry fee, a monthly fee (unless you just happen to have 250 smackaroos you can toss away) AND an item shop.

It feels like the game's development was so expensive that Funcom is lashing out in desperation, attempting to make a profit at any cost, even if it means putting microtransactions in a non-free-to-play game with cover charge.

Exactly. Which is why I fear that the game is going to have its lunch served to it by GW2 and MoP when they come crashing out of the gate in August and September. TSW could be looking at staggering subscriber drop off after the first two months. If it hits a 90% drop I wouldn't be surprised at all.

And that's not an imprecation on the quality of the game, but a reality of what happens to sub based games after the free month expires. If I was Funcom I'd have been as generous as possible knowing I'd have to face the ultra-hyped GW2 and a goddam WoW expansion when my game was barely 2 months old. Instead they're almost daring people to leave. Character slots? Clothes? You don't really NEED that stuff. It's OPTIONAL. Pay up, whiners!

 

[Schadrach]

Imma be honest... I'm not interested... the MMo market is way overblown... honestly there's way too many... we just need to start letting them die now...<.<

TSW is reasonably unlike other MMOs, I hope it lives a long and happy life, for the same reason that I hope CoH continues to, and I wish Auto Assault had. There's a definite need for more breadth in the genre.

Again though, this is a question of optics and perception. It does not matter that the two cash shops are comparables, because the games are NOT. WoW was an established industry titan with an enormous and captive player base. TSW is a brand new game with a new IP and a developer with a reputation for shaky launches. It needs to ward off not only the larger and more heavily advertised GW2, but also MoP, in the months immediately following its release.

If you have a long time friend, who you've known for many years, and that friend asks to borrow money, you'd likely not think much of it. Now imagine you have a new friend you've known for only a day, and they are also asking to borrow money. This is TSW and the cash shop.

Funcom is in a very vulnerable position with TSW. They need to be doing every thing they can to marry subscribers to their product, because they face one of the most ugly lineups of competition I've ever seen a new MMO exposed to. The sub drop-off for new MMOs tends to be between 50-80% after the free month, WITHOUT competition. Games that have a Blizzard expansion dropped on them have lost up to 90%. TSW has that, and then some, to look forward to.

ANYTHING they do that puts people off buying or staying is playing with fire.

Thye don't draw too much attention to the item shop, other than the banner ad in the launcher, really. You can pretend it's not even there with no ill effects unless you had a preorder or bonus pack (Secret War, Initiate, Master, or Grand Master, or presumably the ARG rewards when they hand them out [I was number 60 on the top 200, so I get at least a Black Watchmen hoodie, I really want to win a Slaughterhouse 666 hoodie though]), in which case it's also where you claim your bonus goodies. Nothing in the shop effects game play in any fashion aside from preorder/bonus goodies (which are on the very top end QL1 blues).

*spits out drink violently* TWO HUNDRED AND FIF-

Yeah, no, FUCK that funcom. Your game may be good, but it isn't 250 dollars good. I don't know any game that is.

The Grand Master Pack, which includes the lifetime sub, a complete set of QL1 blue talismans (with similar weapons in the Initiate pack, and QL1 green weapons were in the Secret War), some XP pots, a 10% discount on the cash shop, and a special outfit is priced at 13 1/3 months of subscription time. That's not atypical for a lifetime subscription to an MMO. It's just the sticker shock of seeing 13 1/3 months of sub + box price of game all up front.

 

[WanderingFool]

Actually, yes, I've played pre-access and I've gotten a lifetime subscription. The setting and atmosphere are amazing and the missions are usually sculpted into amazing ice sculptures while most other MMO's just churn out ice cubes. Seriously, watch every cut-scene. You won't regret it.

The combat system is also very in depth when you look into it. On the outside, it looks like just normal button mashing with a bit of active dodging. However, the real gem of the system is found in creating many different synergies between two weapons and 14 out of over 500 abilities.

It is definitely not for everyone, it targets a niche crowd. However, that is because it IS different than most MMO's.
It doesn't hold your hand very much, however, and that could be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Personally, I had no trouble at all playing the game. But that is because I had already done my research and knew how to play.

Also, EA is only handling the physical distribution of the game. They have absolutely no control in the development process of the games past, present, or future.

For the cash shop? You'd be surprised at how well Funcom has managed to keep it strictly cosmetic with no affect on the gameplay. You cannot buy items or money and you cannot sell, disassemble, or trade anything you do buy. You may not like the fact that there even is a cash shop to begin with, neither do I, but I find the game to have made up for itself and more just because it is so different.

The launch has been the smoothest MMO launches I've ever experienced and so far I've not regretted my decision to get lifetime membership one bit!

All sounds good, but how long is a lifetime membership exactly, and how much is it?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

They don't draw too much attention to the item shop, other than the banner ad in the launcher, really. You can pretend it's not even there with no ill effects unless you had a preorder or bonus pack (Secret War, Initiate, Master, or Grand Master, or presumably the ARG rewards when they hand them out [I was number 60 on the top 200, so I get at least a Black Watchmen hoodie, I really want to win a Slaughterhouse 666 hoodie though]), in which case it's also where you claim your bonus goodies. Nothing in the shop effects game play in any fashion aside from preorder/bonus goodies (which are on the very top end QL1 blues).

I know all about the item shop. In terms of content, you're right, it's fairly non malicious, being limited entirely to cosmetic items. One could argue that cosmetic items are fairly significant in TSW, and I've heard mixed reports over the quality and quantity of the ones available for "free" via the sub, but for the sake of argument lets assume the "free" stuff is perfectly acceptable.

In terms of pricing it's straight up rude. Even proponents of the cash shop are snarking about the prices on the official forums.

In terms of optics it's terrible. Whether it's tucked away or not, people are aware of it, and it SEEMS greedy. And I'm just not sure Funcom can afford anything even remotely resembling negative perception with the hill they have to climb over the back half of this year. They're already going through the traditional "grace period was too short" fiasco at the moment, with physical copies slow drifting in thanks to July 4th and people getting locked out of the game they just dropped huge amounts of money on.

MMO players are fickle, demanding idiots. They will turn on your game in record speed if something rubs them wrong. And Cash Shop + Sub can and will rub many of them wrong.