The Sexualization of Women in Comic Books

[kidd25]

sex sell, why did it become so hard to say this without people thinking your a dick-troll-douchebag. really comic book use them cause men like women and we love boobs and we love action and the word 'and' in a bad sentence. expect grammar nazi they would kill me for what i been posting. Also it sad that people would see this stuff made for teens and get all angry, but then again it would be sad if we din't have people like that.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

Uh, Dr Manhattan is completely nude for half of Watchmen. This is my argument to all debates regarding the sexuality of women in superhero stories.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Uh, Dr Manhattan is completely nude for half of Watchmen. This is my argument to all debates regarding the sexuality of women in superhero stories.

Naked =/= sexualized. Does Despair from Sandman strike you as a sexualized character?

 

[Kahunaburger]

sex sell, why did it become so hard to say this without people thinking your a dick-troll-douchebag. really comic book use them cause men like women and we love boobs and we love action and the word 'and' in a bad sentence. expect grammar nazi they would kill me for what i been posting. Also it sad that people would see this stuff made for teens and get all angry, but then again it would be sad if we din't have people like that.

Grammatik macht frei! (Lol j/k).

The issue is that women don't have to be portrayed as cheesecake to be sexy or sexual.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

It's about how male characters are sexualized as a side-effect of portraying them as powerful and female characters are portrayed as powerless* as a side-effect of sexualizing them.

*or as a dominatrix.

I'm going to just ask this...

As a dominant male who has found nothing but respect in dominant women, what is wrong with a dominatrix? Hell, the ones I knew were cool because they weren't insecure. They knew they had it and didn't need to put heel to your neck to prove it.

Nothing. My issue (and the issue of this article) is mainly about how the way women in comic books are sexualized tends to portray them as powerless as a side effect. That asterisk was mostly just there because Wonder Woman etc. are a notable exception to this rule.

I wouldn't call any of the women depicted as powerless... Black Cat, Cat Woman, Power Girl, Rogue, Mystique, Phoenix, Angela or any of the Spawn Angels, etc etc...

I am not catching the powerlessness vibe at all. They're hot, they're titillating, and most of them have twelve methods to kill you without messing their hair.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Well to be fair, few women find a Rob Liefeld proportioned musclebound man sexy. =p They're more into athletic fit (generally speaking).

If not anatomically correct.

 

[Kahunaburger]

snip

It's about how male characters are sexualized as a side-effect of portraying them as powerful and female characters are portrayed as powerless* as a side-effect of sexualizing them.

*or as a dominatrix.

I'm going to just ask this...

As a dominant male who has found nothing but respect in dominant women, what is wrong with a dominatrix? Hell, the ones I knew were cool because they weren't insecure. They knew they had it and didn't need to put heel to your neck to prove it.

Nothing. My issue (and the issue of this article) is mainly about how the way women in comic books are sexualized tends to portray them as powerless as a side effect. That asterisk was mostly just there because Wonder Woman etc. are a notable exception to this rule.

I wouldn't call any of the women depicted as powerless... Black Cat, Cat Woman, Power Girl, Rogue, Mystique, Phoenix, Angela or any of the Spawn Angels, etc etc...

I am not catching the powerlessness vibe at all. They're hot, they're titillating, and most of them have twelve methods to kill you without messing their hair.

Yeah, but the "twelve methods to kill you" is undermined by the "hot, titillating, and without messing their hair." Kushana's about 10x more credible as a powerful person than Mystique, for instance.

Male equivalent: is John McClane or Jacob from twilight more credible as a hero?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

snip

It's about how male characters are sexualized as a side-effect of portraying them as powerful and female characters are portrayed as powerless* as a side-effect of sexualizing them.

*or as a dominatrix.

I'm going to just ask this...

As a dominant male who has found nothing but respect in dominant women, what is wrong with a dominatrix? Hell, the ones I knew were cool because they weren't insecure. They knew they had it and didn't need to put heel to your neck to prove it.

Nothing. My issue (and the issue of this article) is mainly about how the way women in comic books are sexualized tends to portray them as powerless as a side effect. That asterisk was mostly just there because Wonder Woman etc. are a notable exception to this rule.

I wouldn't call any of the women depicted as powerless... Black Cat, Cat Woman, Power Girl, Rogue, Mystique, Phoenix, Angela or any of the Spawn Angels, etc etc...

I am not catching the powerlessness vibe at all. They're hot, they're titillating, and most of them have twelve methods to kill you without messing their hair.

Yeah, but the "twelve methods to kill you" is undermined by the "hot, titillating, and without messing their hair." Kushana's about 10x more credible as a powerful person than Mystique, for instance.

Male equivalent: is John McClane or Jacob from twilight more credible as a hero?

John is a machismo stereotype and Jacob is a pedophile. Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

So you're comparing apples and assholes. So yea, I have to say John because that is what he is supposed to be.

Here is the thing. Why does revealing clothes undermine their power? Why does sex make them powerless? I don't recall that ever being canon. So why are you interpreting it that way? Why is she? That sounds more of projection than fact. After all, twelve methods to kill you still kills you dead. Btw, the hair thing was a snide remark regarding the ease of killing you.

An anecdote if you'll excuse me. On Sacred 2, the Seraphim, a race of powerful, apparently all women angels who are created by the nebulous creator god to protect the Great Machine. They command angelic magic, powerful warrior skills, and revered technology. They brought knowledge of magical technology to the high elves, etc etc. Still with me? Sorry but it needed back story.

Anyway... They dress... Wow... worse than any comic book. This is what my wife had to say when I brought up their clothing. "Well, they are powerful. Who's going to fuck with them? They have needs since that one mentioned wanting to stay sexy and slim. So... They are flaunting. I'd dress like that if I figured I could get away with it and looked like that."

Obviously, that is just my wife but it is another perspective. Feeling sexy is fun and only projection says it makes them "less powerful." Suspending disbelief and assuming these women were real and managed to make the clothing work, would you give Power Girl shit about her tit window? Would you have the gall to treat her like a "little lady" when she could snap your damn neck?

Let's be realistic here, as much as we can be... These are powerful women despite whatever they are wearing. It only undermines them as much as you, the reader, assume it does. They are still going to kick ass, punch through walls, and lift shit with their mind.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hello All,

I stumbled upon this very interesting take on the difference between the way men are portrayed in comic books vs. the way women are portrayed in comic books. This is a very good counterpoint to the usual argument: "But men are drawn unrealistically too--we don't all have all those muscles!"

Bonus: exciting photos.

Spoiler

Check it out and then I'd be interested to read y'all's commentary.

http://rosalarian.tumblr.com/post/6288675810/megan-rosalarian-gedris-dressed-to-kill

Oh, good find. I'd never really noticed how it was the poses, not just the outfits.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Hell, let's look at this a different way. She wants to talk powerless?

Okay... Princess stories where they are the prize. How are they dressed? Demure and conservative as hell. Powerless women in the middle east. Burka, fucking burkas. Princess Peach, Zelda, hell Zelda has to disguise herself as a damn man to pretend to be badass. All pretty conservative dress. Snow White, Rapunzel, Cinderella, etc etc... Stories upon stories about powerless women dressed damn near like nuns by comic book comparison.

So really, don't try to sell me that dressing to titillate makes them less powerful. Their personality and ability gives them power, not what they are wearing. Unless it is magic underwear or slutty power armor, haven't read in a while.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

You missed the entire point where I asked you to point why sexy = powerless. I really would like to read that answer.

Btw, Jacob is female wank material but still can turn into a wolf and probably lift a small truck. Just isn't a hero.

EDIT: Btw, your analogy was as accurate as comparing the heroism of Ron Jeremy to Wonder Woman. One is wank material (for somebody) and one is a heroine. Compare two heroes if you want to do the analogy right. A hero is based on their motivations and actions, not their chest size.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

You missed the entire point where I asked you to point why sexy = powerless. I really would like to read that answer.

Btw, Jacob is female wank material but still can turn into a wolf and probably lift a small truck. Just isn't a hero.

No, I'm not saying sexy = weaker. I'm saying wank material = weaker. Because energy spent on making a character wank material is not being spent on characterization.

(Btw, the in-universe abilities of characters have nothing to do with how credible they are as heroes/heroines. Jacob Black would kick John McClane's ass in a fight, but John McClane is a much better hero.)

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

The picture fails to make its point because men and women are culturally sexualised differently. A guy being sexualised does look unrealistic, but doesn't look like that.

Yeah, I just see a pretty woman and an overweight drag queen in that picture. I think maybe doing a side-by-side of that woman and, say, Captain America or the Green Lantern (with their melon sized biceps and washboard abs) would have been more effective.

Also, I think the main reason people raise a stink about women getting oversexualized is because of the amount of skin the costumes show. Sure, Superman's tights may leave little to the imagination as to what's down there, but he's pretty much covered head to toe most of the time. You don't see him flying around in a Speedo, so why are the women required to have either leg or cleavage showing at all times?

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

You missed the entire point where I asked you to point why sexy = powerless. I really would like to read that answer.

Btw, Jacob is female wank material but still can turn into a wolf and probably lift a small truck. Just isn't a hero.

No, I'm not saying sexy = weaker. I'm saying wank material = weaker.

(Btw, the in-universe abilities of characters have nothing to do with how credible they are as heroes/heroines. Jacob Black would kick John McClane's ass in a fight, but John McClane is a much better hero.)

You missed the actions and personality part, actually. Also, Catwoman isn't a hero because she is an antihero. Hard to be a thief and be a hero, but yea.

Technically, you'd want to use somebody like Storm. Then you compare actions, not clothing, since that makes the hero. You're relegating them to wank material based on clothing and ignoring their actions. So yea, I can't agree with your assertion that risque clothing makes them powerless. Their animus gives them power, like I said.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

You missed the entire point where I asked you to point why sexy = powerless. I really would like to read that answer.

Btw, Jacob is female wank material but still can turn into a wolf and probably lift a small truck. Just isn't a hero.

No, I'm not saying sexy = weaker. I'm saying wank material = weaker.

(Btw, the in-universe abilities of characters have nothing to do with how credible they are as heroes/heroines. Jacob Black would kick John McClane's ass in a fight, but John McClane is a much better hero.)

You missed the actions and personality part, actually. Also, Catwoman isn't a hero because she is an antihero. Hard to be a thief and be a hero, but yea.

Technically, you'd want to use somebody like Storm. Then you compare actions, not clothing, since that makes the hero. You're relegating them to wank material based on clothing and ignoring their actions. So yea, I can't agree with your assertion that risque clothing makes them powerless. Their animus gives them power, like I said.

Time and energy spent on making a character wank material is time and energy not spent on characterization. Once again, compare Jacob and John McClane.

Or, since we're on a video game board, compare Garrus from ME1 and Fenris from DA2. One was clearly designed with the wank material factor in mind, one was clearly designed simply as a character. Guess who works better as a character?*

*And, to lay the cheese/beefcake=sexy myth to rest, guess who has more fangirls?

 

[Fappy]

While most of the points I would attempt to make have already been stated I will mention that there are tons of female characters in comic books (even super hero comics) that are not overly-sexualized. Some of them happen to be the better female characters in those books.

Just a quick example (unless women in power-armor turns you on):

Spoiler

(BTW, that's some pretty neat fan art )

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

The picture fails to make its point because men and women are culturally sexualised differently. A guy being sexualised does look unrealistic, but doesn't look like that.

Now THAT was a quick thread.

Some men are made to look like hulking tanks of masculine brawn. Some women are made to look like brooms wearing a black leather outfit ten sizes too small. That's what we are as a people -- shallow, lol.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Jacob is intended to be female wank material, not a hero.

And that, boys and girls, is why Kushana is more credible as a heroine than Catwoman.

(And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, a character doesn't have to be cheesecake or beefcake to be sexy or sexual.)

You missed the entire point where I asked you to point why sexy = powerless. I really would like to read that answer.

Btw, Jacob is female wank material but still can turn into a wolf and probably lift a small truck. Just isn't a hero.

No, I'm not saying sexy = weaker. I'm saying wank material = weaker.

(Btw, the in-universe abilities of characters have nothing to do with how credible they are as heroes/heroines. Jacob Black would kick John McClane's ass in a fight, but John McClane is a much better hero.)

You missed the actions and personality part, actually. Also, Catwoman isn't a hero because she is an antihero. Hard to be a thief and be a hero, but yea.

Technically, you'd want to use somebody like Storm. Then you compare actions, not clothing, since that makes the hero. You're relegating them to wank material based on clothing and ignoring their actions. So yea, I can't agree with your assertion that risque clothing makes them powerless. Their animus gives them power, like I said.

Time and energy spent on making a character wank material is time and energy not spent on characterization. Once again, compare Jacob and John McClane.

Or, since we're on a video game board, compare Garrus from ME1 and Fenris from DA2. One was clearly designed with the wank material factor in mind, one was clearly designed simply as a character. Guess who works better as a character?*

*And, to lay the cheese/beefcake=sexy myth to rest, guess who has more fangirls?

Exactly how long do you think it takes to draw a sexy outfit and put up a pose? Like seriously, it isn't that long or time consuming. Do you know anything about the comic industry and how they are made? Seriously, they steal poses from each other all the time. Hell, even if you take into account original pose work, you have to realize these are talented artists dealing with established material. They aren't reinventing the fucking wheel and probably not writing the script. If they are writing the script, the look probably comes easy as it already formed in their head as they conceived the character. The only time they agonize over it is if they have some sort of creative block, which happens to artists of all stripes.

Fenris is a slave warrior and Garrus is space Batman. They are both angsty and gravelly characters. You're not taking context, environment, or backstory into it. Fenris is a good looking (to some, I don't dig their elves) slave put in magic armor, a piece of property meant to look as good as he fought. IE, his "wank" status as you put it was part of his backstory. Garrus is wearing a variation of the same fucking armor everybody else wears in combat and has his motivation ripped from old cop movies and Batman. Don't preach to me with characters that easy to figure out.

So don't insult artists and say they can't multitask. Also, judge the characters by their actions and personality. If you're going to say "Nothing. My issue (and the issue of this article) is mainly about how the way women in comic books are sexualized tends to portray them as powerless as a side effect." Your words, see above.

Again, why does sexualization make them powerless? You've backpedaled once but still seem to believe that sexualization equates to a powerless woman. You're also talking about credibility when we are talking about people who fly and crush things with their mind, so I really don't get your angle there. It has no meaning to what we are talking about. We are talking about sexualization and why it undermines their power. If she can still punch through a wall and save the day with some sense of relatability that garners a fandom thus revenue, I am not seeing the problem. They aren't tied up wallflowers, they move and shake the plot. Men and women being equally ridiculous. Period.

EDIT: If the Bioware forums are to be believed, Garrus is considered more fuckable than Fenris. He was also demanded as a sex companion in 2. So hmm, where was your sexualization argument again?