The Shadow of Mordor games are a bad match for the LOTR license.

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

To my understanding their intent was less a "this is totally canon guys" and more a "fuck it. hold my beer" continuity where a possessed ranger invaded Mordor with his blackjack-and-hooker army of orcs so he could kill Sauron.

I could have gotten behind that, as a sort of "weird-LOTR" thing. But sadly Monolith (or WBs PR department anyway) went well out of their way to tell us just how seriously they treated book canon, how totes meshing their story was with canon and how it was all in the spirit of Tolkien and Middle Earth. Nevermind, as Shamus Young pointed out, that SoM basically shits all over Tolkien's themes.

Currently playing the game because I bought it on steam sale for $4. I'm having a decent amount of fun with it, but it really bothers me just how completely overpowered Talion is in it.

Yup. To put this in perspective for you, in a late game mission you get to fight your "biggest nemesis" again, scaled up to supposedly match you. For me, that was like the third Boss I fought, because I hadn't yet learned the combat system and got swarmed. So my biggest nemesis was some runty Orc that got a lucky hit on me and I had dispatched a few times (he had showed up several times after his initial defeat) some odd 20 hours ago. Talion is so overpowered that I didn't die a single time past my second hour of playing, which basically broke the Nemesis system that relies on Talion periodically dying to refresh itself and to level up the bosses.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

It's a very fun game, and I personally love the nemesis system - having that fluid evolution that you can then yourself take advantage of, interact with and craft stories out of really helped keep the game alive for me.

Because, fuck, the story of the game itself sure doesn't. It really does feel like it fits Warhammer more, since the exploration of the Orcs, while fascinating, doesn't... really feel LoTR-y? Then again, nothing in the game besides the visuals does - Talion is a physical god (which makes the opening scene where he dies hilarious), the elven-ghost guy does so much shit neither elves or ghosts have the power to do in lore and the whole 'lets make more rings' thing is just... strange as hell. It's all so... comically fantastical, which just doesn't fit with the grounded nature of LoTR.

Now, if Talion was a Space Viking and he was charging in against Da Boyz, then, maybe, but as it is... well, not like I play Shadow of Mordor for the story and characters anyway.

[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]I like reboot Trek too. Come at me, bros.[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

You sick monster.

[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]actually I like the 3rd one, and the 1st one was... ok. 2nd one sucked arse though.[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I agree with everything you said. I really wish they would have made it straight up alternate "history" instead of still trying to tie it into the trilogy. I can already imagine the horrible ending this series will have.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I agree with everything you said. I really wish they would have made it straight up alternate "history" instead of still trying to tie it into the trilogy. I can already imagine the horrible ending this series will have.

Why did they even bother tying it into the trilogy if they then went ahead and called the sequel Wolfenstein 2? It's so stupid.

I played it twice, but I don't remember exactly how the guns felt. The dual wielding felt kind of pointless. I found the game good, not great. 3/5. Not excited for the sequel.

Huh? Did you get this mixed up with Zhukov's other thread?

 

[shrekfan246]

[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]I like reboot Trek too. Come at me, bros.[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

You sick monster.

[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]actually I like the 3rd one, and the 1st one was... ok. 2nd one sucked arse though.[/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

[sub][sub][sub][sub][sub]As far as Trek-themed Hollywood action romps go, I like all three of them. But then, I'm also an unapologetic fan of the Star Wars prequels, and I didn't think Mass Effect 3 ruined anything, and I think Diablo III is a great game, and I think DmC was a really good game. [/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Fireaxe]

Tend to think that while they mismatch a little, the outcome is good enough that it's not a big deal to me. I don't think they really match with Warhammer either.

Worth noting the contest between Gimli and Legolas at helms deep or even the Battle of Five Armies outcome makes the large number of kills by a 'hero' type character not totally misplaced in my opinion.

Warhammer isn't allowed to have good games.

Shadow of the Horned Rat was excellent though.

 

[Laughing Man]

If an additional story must be made to coexist with an already existing one then the way to do it is to narrow the focus down to something small and personal, something that would plausibly have gone unmentioned in the wider narrative. But no, that won't fly in the video game world. Everything must be "EPIC". (Anyone else remember when that word actually meant something?)

The way I see it is the events of Shadow Of Mordor are clearly set before the first LOTR book / movie. The events are also meant to be taking place in the lands in and around Mordor prior to Sauron's tower being built and him becoming the all seeing eye. So given what we know happens to Mordor and the lands that surround them, they basically become a wasteland filled with places were Orks are trained and Uroks are created then I am going with the story that what Talion is doing is a lost history. Yup he fought the Orcs as they tried to reclaim the lands in and around Mordor and yes he managed to kill and raise an armour but in the end it was for nothing Sauron's power was too much in the end and he and his actions ended up getting forgotten about.

It would work to a degree if they hadn't pulled Golam in to the story, that alone makes the time frame between the evnts of SOM and the first LOTR movie much smaller than it should, then again we don't really know how old Golam is meant to be, in the game we get told that he has just lost the ring to Bilbo and when we see Bilbo in the first movie he is 111 years old so we are looking at a good 60+ years between. SOM and LOTR.

I'm having a decent amount of fun with it, but it really bothers me just how completely overpowered Talion is in it.

yeah but have you seen how big some of the Orc Hordes get in the game, at one point in the late game I had 1 Warchief, plus his bodyguards 2, 3 captains and a whatever hordes were running in because someone had raised the stronghold alarm, it can get a bit frantic in the late game.

On the other hand, when you have some random ranger killing a dozen Orcs without breaking a sweat it feels like bullshit because Boromir, this supposedly great hero, got his shit completely pushed in doing that exact same thing. Every orc is supposed to be a threat but instead they're barely even a speed-bump

He isn't some random Ranger though is he, he's trapped between life and death and is linked to the guy who made the original rings, who just happens to be an Elf and as we saw Elves are not only quick and nimble they kill Orcs without much issue, the Orc Kill count between Gimli and Legolas in the movies? Yeah some of the powers are a bit OTT, teleporting and such but you know what it's a god damn load of fun so does it really matter?

 

[DrownedAmmet]

I think they could have worked in the IP a bit better. Instead of the Nemisis system being about Orcs they could have through in human tribes that you had to recruit and ally with to take on the evil forces of Mordor. Giving personality and allowing you to mentally dominate Orcs always seemed a little out of place

 

[RaikuFA]

LotR was a bunch of boring books/movies about elves walking for hours. I'd rather get this then whatever they could have made with the movies.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I agree. When the first game was announced I thought that it should be a new IP because with all the LOTR baggage there's only so much that they can do creatively. Not to mention that they're butchering the lore. I don't really care about LOTR but many people do.

 

[jademunky]

I can see one reason to use the LOTR license: Not having to frontload a movie's worth of exposition into the beginning of the game to understand it all.

Who is the main character? A ranger.

Who are the villains? Orcs

Where is this happening? Morridor

Why? War of the one-ring

Now, I agree with the OP that LOTR is a bad fit as the setting for their "Grand Theft Orc" trilogy but I do understand why they did it and why they did not use a more obscure fantasy license instead or, God forbid, write their own.

 

[DoPo]

I can see one reason to use the LOTR license: Not having to frontload a movie's worth of exposition into the beginning of the game to understand it all.

Who is the main character? A ranger.

Who are the villains? Orcs

Where is this happening? Morridor

Why? War of the one-ring

Now, I agree with the OP that LOTR is a bad fit as the setting for their "Grand Theft Orc" trilogy but I do understand why they did it and why they did not use a more obscure fantasy license instead or, God forbid, write their own.

So, let's see how the thing would change if they did use an "original IP":

Who is the main character? A human. Maybe even a ranger.

Who are the villains? Orcs

Where is this happening? Land conquered by orcs.

Why? Prevent a bigger war.

So...yeah, not much different. Orcs are quite universal in being bad guys. Same with humans being the heroes. Call the protagonist a ranger, a fighter, whatever - it's usually a human and that human being well versed in combat is not out of place. The goal of most fiction in general is to prevent a major catastrophy - end of a country, or the world and so on. Thus there being a bigger war looming is quite normal. Especially if you set a land conquered by orcs as a backdrop - show what happened to one place and you can basically go "See this, the same can happen to everywhere". Or just have it be about liberation. Or have the world be at risk. Honestly there are so many motivations possible, that it's hard to pick a single one - "land conquered by orcs, you can stop them" is really all you need.

I'm not saying that's what the game should be about, I'd say that's what the game would have been about if it didn't use the LOTR license. Because, let's face it, even though it did, it hardly put much original thought in it. And it didn't even have much effect - if you search and replace any LOTR name mentions with something else, the game would not change that much. The only real difference is that relics you go and collect would be pointless. Well, to be precise, more pointless as currently, they don't have much of a purpose aside from namedropping some elements from LOTR.

 

[jademunky]

So, let's see how the thing would change if they did use an "original IP":

Who is the main character? A human. Maybe even a ranger.

Who are the villains? Orcs

Where is this happening? Land conquered by orcs.

Why? Prevent a bigger war.

So...yeah, not much different. Orcs are quite universal in being bad guys. Same with humans being the heroes. Call the protagonist a ranger, a fighter, whatever - it's usually a human and that human being well versed in combat is not out of place. The goal of most fiction in general is to prevent a major catastrophy - end of a country, or the world and so on. Thus there being a bigger war looming is quite normal. Especially if you set a land conquered by orcs as a backdrop - show what happened to one place and you can basically go "See this, the same can happen to everywhere". Or just have it be about liberation. Or have the world be at risk. Honestly there are so many motivations possible, that it's hard to pick a single one - "land conquered by orcs, you can stop them" is really all you need.

I'm not saying that's what the game should be about, I'd say that's what the game would have been about if it didn't use the LOTR license. Because, let's face it, even though it did, it hardly put much original thought in it. And it didn't even have much effect - if you search and replace any LOTR name mentions with something else, the game would not change that much. The only real difference is that relics you go and collect would be pointless. Well, to be precise, more pointless as currently, they don't have much of a purpose aside from namedropping some elements from LOTR.

No no! Now you are thinking rationally about it. If they used orcs and rangers without using the LOTR license then they would be a generic fantasy setting. This way, by attaching themselves lampraylike to an existing franchise that has already had it's story told, they become a legitimate totally "canonical" side-story in THE definitive fantasy setting.

 

[sXeth]

I think they should make their own IP instead, rather than attach to any existing one.

If worldbuilding isn't there strong suit (And the writing in SoM certainly seems to head that way), I'd suggest they just shift over to fellow WB property Mad Max. Mad Max even had its own open-worldy beat-em up thing shortly after. One man against the scorched wasteland fighting hordes of tribalistic enemies that hold grudges fits in so much better there.

Now if they wanted to keep the whole fantasy stuff going on, borrow from another WB studio and just make an Outworld-based game in the Mortal Kombat universe. That would prettymuch fit SoM's style like a glove.

 

[Saelune]

I think they should make their own IP instead, rather than attach to any existing one.

If worldbuilding isn't there strong suit (And the writing in SoM certainly seems to head that way), I'd suggest they just shift over to fellow WB property Mad Max. Mad Max even had its own open-worldy beat-em up thing shortly after. One man against the scorched wasteland fighting hordes of tribalistic enemies that hold grudges fits in so much better there.

Now if they wanted to keep the whole fantasy stuff going on, borrow from another WB studio and just make an Outworld-based game in the Mortal Kombat universe. That would prettymuch fit SoM's style like a glove.

They were constrained by the ultimately unfinished world of Lord of the Rings. Up until the end, it seemed they were intent on working within the established lore rather than making their own fan fic...until the ending anyways.