well i think blacklist is worse. atleast conviction feel like im playing as sam fisher. blacklist butchered sam character and turn him into generic war hero.Samtemdo8 said:
The Splinter Cell Franchise
- Thread starter Xprimentyl
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in 2010 back in GT. I was right about splinter cell series. now 7 years later it appears that im still right. still right that chaos theory was last good splinter cell game.BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yeah I misunderstood.Xprimentyl said:
Yes the cardboard box in MGS is silly but not really comparable. It's just a fun mechanic for a game that doesn't take itself too seriously, that you also can skip using if you want. Just because you want certain things to act realistically doesn't mean you need everything to be realistic.
Uh huh.B-Cell said:
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
And therein lies the rub; Metal Gear appears to want to be taken seriously when clearly it doesn?t, and that dissonance makes it difficult for it to click with me. I prefer at the very least a consistent tone in one direction or the other: if you wanna be silly, be silly; if you wanna be gritty, be gritty, but if I?m performing emergency open-gut surgery one minute, then hiding under a cardboard box whilst wearing a chicken head mask the next, my interest thrusters will disengage automatically.Ezekiel said:
And let?s be fair: the light/dark mechanic IS Splinter Cell, just as driving IS Forza, shooting IS Call of Duty, flying IS Ace Combat, football-ing IS Madden/FIFA, yet none of those titles adhere 100% realistically to their real-world analogue, but they each do their take on it well enough [fairly objectively] for good, escapist entertainment. So if Ezekiel (or anyone) feels Splinter Cell overuses shadow mechanics, that?s fine; Splinter Cell just fundamentally isn?t for him.
As to the pacing, that?s one thing they addressed in Blacklist. I mentioned that they have three playstyles (Ghost, Panther and Assault) each allowing a certain level of lethality and each rewarded if you commit to it for a given mission, so the player really does get to dictate the pacing. I, for one, obviously like the slow and methodical Ghost style; it?s fun and more interesting for me, but I can see how it might be boring for someone who wants to plan less and act more. I?m the same way with RTSs; I can?t for the life of me understand why anyone in their right mind would want to play a micromanagement simulator, but there are those that do, so meh; more power to ?em.
Double Agent on the PS2 and original Xbox was basically Chaos Theory 2.0 but most people aren't aware of that version.B-Cell said:
I like Splinter Cell. I didn't like what Ubisoft did with Xbox 360/PC version of Double Agent. It was a good game, but I preferred the old gen version. Even the story was much better. I didn't like Conviction, but no one did so no surprises there, but Blacklist was a pretty good game IMO. Can't say that I was a fan of Sam Fisher without Michael Ironside, but storytelling was never really the selling point of these games.
I could never really get into the Splinter Cell series. I think because it tried to be too realistic with certain design decisions regarding gameplay mechanics and seemed to forget it's supposed to still be a game. The newer ones were apparently less simulation, but then fail next to MGS imo anyways because the simulation design is what set it apart.
Maybe I'll reinstall Chaos Theory and see if I feel differently now after so many years away from it.
Maybe I'll reinstall Chaos Theory and see if I feel differently now after so many years away from it.
Yeah, I felt the same. Also, wasn't there some bullshit forced action part right at the end of the first game? I don't think I ever finished it because that part sucked balls and it takes him forever to aim that stupid gun. At least when Metal Gear and Hitman force you out of stealth, the mechanics don't suck.Phoenixmgs said:
I loved the first three games and even enjoyed conviction even though it was the worst one of the four I played. Admittedly I've always been more of a fan of the story and action stealth gameplay of the MGS series, but I still really enjoyed the more realistic gameplay and story of the splinter cell games. I really should give Blacklist a try but for some reason I never really got over Ubisoft replacing Ironside which is weird because I never made much of a fuss when Kojima replaced Hayter with Sutherland.
The first one? not really. At the end you have to assassinate someone and that will put the entire place on alert but it's not hard to avoid them. There is a part shortly before where you surrounded by guards and your allies kill the power in building to give you a fighting chance. However, I don't think you have to fight them and even if you choose to it's not very hard. There are some points in the Splinter Cell games (1-3) where you do have eliminate the opposition, but it rarely, if ever, puts you in a situation where the enemy knows your exact location which gives you the opportunity to pick them off from the shadows one by one if your careful enough. Though granted Splinter Cell is definitely far less forgiving than MGS if you mess up.Major_Tom said:
I remember enjoying Pandora Tomorrow more than Chaos Theory, although I'm not even sure I got very far into CT. Conviction was horrible and I gave up on the series after that.
I played the original one when it came out but didn't really enjoy it so didn't bother playing any of the others. Then one day I was looking for an new game and found a new copy of Conviction on 360 pretty cheap, decided to give it a shot and actually quite liked it. I especially enjoyed the co-op story which me and my brother played together.
When Blacklist came out I picked it up on Wii U (got it cheap again) and absolutely loved it. I loved the fact that you had different playstyles and played the story multiple times to try them out. I even did a no kill ghost run on the highest difficulty which is something I never do (usually a medium difficulty man). Only problem with the Wii U version was the multiplayer was absolutely dead so I traded it in for a 360 copy so I could play it(got the collectors edition for the neat Sam statue and SC graphic novel)
Only other game in the series I played was Double Agent which was ok but having played it after Blacklist it didn't feel great, kinda clunky I suppose.
To be honest as I was never invested in the series Michael Ironside being replaced didn't bother me at all but I can understand long time fans being annoyed by it. I thought the guy in Blacklist did a pretty good job though.
I'd welcome another game in the franchise as long as it's like Blacklist again
When Blacklist came out I picked it up on Wii U (got it cheap again) and absolutely loved it. I loved the fact that you had different playstyles and played the story multiple times to try them out. I even did a no kill ghost run on the highest difficulty which is something I never do (usually a medium difficulty man). Only problem with the Wii U version was the multiplayer was absolutely dead so I traded it in for a 360 copy so I could play it(got the collectors edition for the neat Sam statue and SC graphic novel)
Only other game in the series I played was Double Agent which was ok but having played it after Blacklist it didn't feel great, kinda clunky I suppose.
To be honest as I was never invested in the series Michael Ironside being replaced didn't bother me at all but I can understand long time fans being annoyed by it. I thought the guy in Blacklist did a pretty good job though.
I'd welcome another game in the franchise as long as it's like Blacklist again
Michael Ironside?s voice as Sam Fisher is as iconic as the green trifocal goggles, so yeah, it was hard to believe when they announced he wasn?t doing Blacklist; after Double Agent and Conviction?s lesser-than showing, it was an extra hard kick in the teeth for we fans which is why I think Blacklist went largely under appreciated.MetalDooley said:
I don?t normally get ?attached? to voice actors or various other franchise staples, but in 2002, when the first Splinter Cell came out, there were no protagonists like Sam Fisher (graying, white male in the twilight of his spec ops military career,) and Michael Ironside?s sardonic, grizzled voice captured (captures) the character perfectly. The franchise grew with him through thick and thin, so when they decided to oust him, it?s was like they took the ONE constant from us, and it felt personal. I didn?t play Blacklist for a year after it launched because I just knew it was going to suck (jaded,) I finally caved an bought it on the cheap and loved every minute of it.
A game can be serious while still maintaining a comical undertone to it. That's what makes it so great and why a lot of people love the MGS series. The games have serious enough characters (With rich and deep back stories) and story so they can be taken seriously. Games don't have to exclusively stick to a serious/comical/silly theme, a lot of great games don't. My favorite games/movies/tv-series are those that can make you laugh at first and then the next minute make you almost cry.Xprimentyl said:
I love me some Splinter Cell, and do very much want a new one. But as I understand it, my perspective on the series is a little different from the norm, due to my entry point.
I played Conviction first, because this one time I happened to be stuck at my parents' place for a while, and all they had was one of those "Mac" things. So I was browsing Steam to see if it played anything, and lo and behold, there was SC: Conviction. I wasn't familiar with the series beyond general awareness, but since there seemed to be a limited selection and I was in the mood for some AAA production values, I picked it up. And I really enjoyed it a lot, thought it was a great shooter with robust stealth elements. And eventually I came to play it on all three platforms it was available on (I think). I mean, I had to pick up the 360 version to solo the split screen co-op on two controllers, since it was only in that one.
After that I went back and played Double Agent and found it OK but not great (on 360, I hear the older gen version is very different and superior), and eventually Chaos Theory. Which I could absolutely recognize as a true classic, only I could never get very deep into it, for the annoying reason that it gave me nasty motion sickness. So I didn't bother with the first one, and Pandora Tomorrow isn't even readily available.
So what this means is that I never had the abiding, sentimental love for the purer stealth approach that all those OG Splinter Cell fans have, though I can certainly respect that and understand why they find the more recent games "dumbed down for the masses" or something along those lines. Still, I liked how Blacklist seemed to take a step back towards greater emphasis on stealth, and overall found it an enjoyable experience, although there were some puzzling decisions made there (like a freaking FPS section, that was just... eugh). And of course, WHERE'S MUH IRONSIDE, DAMN IT?! Now that really flattened the character.
Anyway, yeah, bring on a new SC, please. Only I'm not quite sure what to wish for. Used to be I thought it should be much more open-worldy, but now I kind of have reservations about that approach, how it diffuses intensity and whatnot. And if they can't bring back Mr. Ironside, maybe they should consider going with a new character... or possibly a couple of them to choose from. (No obnoxious "Grrl Power!" cheerleading if female though, thx!) Storywise... eh, maybe keep it somewhat professional. I feel the whole "Let's make Sam Fisher moar human by introducing family members" thing kind of broke something. Someone can be human without going "Noooooo! Saaaaraaaaah!" at regular intervals if there's a personality there.
Edit: Just to clarify a bit, I found Double Agent "OK" (and merely that) in gameplay. The storyline, I think, was a huge misstep. And introducing a limited element of choice just seemed to create further complications for further developments.
I played Conviction first, because this one time I happened to be stuck at my parents' place for a while, and all they had was one of those "Mac" things. So I was browsing Steam to see if it played anything, and lo and behold, there was SC: Conviction. I wasn't familiar with the series beyond general awareness, but since there seemed to be a limited selection and I was in the mood for some AAA production values, I picked it up. And I really enjoyed it a lot, thought it was a great shooter with robust stealth elements. And eventually I came to play it on all three platforms it was available on (I think). I mean, I had to pick up the 360 version to solo the split screen co-op on two controllers, since it was only in that one.
After that I went back and played Double Agent and found it OK but not great (on 360, I hear the older gen version is very different and superior), and eventually Chaos Theory. Which I could absolutely recognize as a true classic, only I could never get very deep into it, for the annoying reason that it gave me nasty motion sickness. So I didn't bother with the first one, and Pandora Tomorrow isn't even readily available.
So what this means is that I never had the abiding, sentimental love for the purer stealth approach that all those OG Splinter Cell fans have, though I can certainly respect that and understand why they find the more recent games "dumbed down for the masses" or something along those lines. Still, I liked how Blacklist seemed to take a step back towards greater emphasis on stealth, and overall found it an enjoyable experience, although there were some puzzling decisions made there (like a freaking FPS section, that was just... eugh). And of course, WHERE'S MUH IRONSIDE, DAMN IT?! Now that really flattened the character.
Anyway, yeah, bring on a new SC, please. Only I'm not quite sure what to wish for. Used to be I thought it should be much more open-worldy, but now I kind of have reservations about that approach, how it diffuses intensity and whatnot. And if they can't bring back Mr. Ironside, maybe they should consider going with a new character... or possibly a couple of them to choose from. (No obnoxious "Grrl Power!" cheerleading if female though, thx!) Storywise... eh, maybe keep it somewhat professional. I feel the whole "Let's make Sam Fisher moar human by introducing family members" thing kind of broke something. Someone can be human without going "Noooooo! Saaaaraaaaah!" at regular intervals if there's a personality there.
Edit: Just to clarify a bit, I found Double Agent "OK" (and merely that) in gameplay. The storyline, I think, was a huge misstep. And introducing a limited element of choice just seemed to create further complications for further developments.
I?ve always been a stickler for playing franchises in the order they were released, e.g.: When Saints Row III came out, I wanted to play it, but forced myself to go back and slough through SR 1 and 2. Granted, it?s not always necessary, but I feel that to appreciate the iterative changes as more titles are released, it?s nice to have a frame of reference as to what changed and maybe even why.StatusNil said:
That being said Splinter Cell CERTAINLY is a franchise that benefits from playing them in the order they were released, particularly the first 3 as the franchise did what so few even today are able to do, and that?s that each subsequent title was superior to its predecessor in nearly every way. Chaos Theory perfected everything Splinter Cell was up to that point, which is why Double Agent was such a letdown; not that it was bad, but coming off the quintessential SC experience in Chaos Theory, Double Agent was too markedly different and the franchise lost steam. It was years before Conviction was announced and even it failed to recapture the essence of SC. I had no hopes for Blacklist, especially upon learning Ironside was out, but it showed me there was still plenty of hope.
Hopes for the next Splinter Cell? First and foremost, Ironside. We haven?t spent the past 15 years endearing ourselves to a grizzled and grey veteran badass just to have him ousted in lieu of Nathan Drake?s less sarcastic older brother. Other than that, I just want the beautiful and nuanced level design Splinter Cell has shown it?s capable of. I would REALLY like to see a Cell game set in environments like The Division; those city streets were gorgeous; shrink them down and make them organic for some lengthy infiltration missions, and oh boy, I?d be a happy camper. As far as the story goes, I dunno; I kinda liked it when it was Sam by himself with one or two handlers in his ear piece; this move to committee is kinda ?meh,? something about spreading the badass-ery around that waters it down and takes the spotlight off of the iconic green trifocal goggles and salt-n-pepper hair where it belongs. (Same complaint about Halo 5; Master Chief doesn?t need a squad; he saved humanity 4 times just fine without ever needing someone to ?revive? him.)