The State of MMORPGs - End of an Era

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Davey Woo

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I've played a few MMO's. I started with Runescape which I played for a couple of years, then I moved onto Guild Wars which I played for 7 years.
The last MMO I played was Guild Wars 2, which I played yesterday, I'm not really looking forward to any other MMO's though I'm mildly interested in the Neverwinter one coming out soon because I loved the old Neverwinter games.
 

Vrach

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Ok, first and foremost:

4RM3D said:
The Elder Scrolls Online is coming, but IMO it doesn't look that great. Just a multiplayer version of Skyrim.
No. If that was the case, it'd be the single most promising and innovative MMO in history. No, TES online isn't an MP version of Skyrim, it's a shitty cliched MMO set in the TES universe.

4RM3D said:
What do you think of the state of MMORPGs these days?
Everyone's doing the same thing and sticking with the hotkey system. Few developers are trying something a tad different with combat, but no one's really trying to get it up to a level where it's an actual (singleplayer-like, if you will) game with MMO properties (massive, multiplayer, online, persistent world, continuously added content etc.)

4RM3D said:
And while on the subject:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
- Are you still playing it?
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
- Does beta count? If so, Firefall. Seemed fun and a step in the right direction, but could still do better. If betas don't count, GW2. Just got bored as I do with any other hotkey MMO.
- Nope
- WoW. 5 solid years, if not more.
- Nope, none catch my interest. They're all too stuck up trying to use the obsolete WoW model or just aren't really interesting (case with Firefall). I'm waiting for a game-changer and hoping the new console generation might inspire some bigshots to try something new, but from the look of the industry right now, I'm expecting we'll see another 5 years at least of the same crap being regurgitated one way or another.
 

4RM3D

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VanQ said:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
I got into the Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn closed beta.

- Are you still playing it?
No, but I can't state why because it's still under non-disclosure.
I have played the original beta (FF XIV version 1.0 0.1). That was a huge disappointment. A half finished game with a myriad of trouble and bugs. Also, give a jump button, damn it! The game came out way too earlier. At least the monthly subscription was put on hold. Anyhow, Final Fantasy XI was much better.

PS. Also why was Final Fantasy XI not called Final Fantasy Online (and FFXIV FF Online 2)? It makes no sense whatsoever to call it XI. It was a stupid decision, IMO.

Epomis said:
Large publishers certainly might be, but large publishers aren't the be-all, end-all of what makes an MMO.
The thing is MMORPGs are expensive and require a big budget. So we have to look to large companies for a grand MMORPG. Of course there are games like Realm of the Mad God. But those are far and few in between. And because they operate on a small budget a lot of cuts have to be made, which usually leads to a decrease overall quality. RotMG seems to be the soul exception.

Epomis said:
Greed Monger ... They're going to monetize by selling in-game parcels of land that players can build on, they believe that will be more than enough to keep the game funded.
The real money thing kinda ruined Diablo 3. But that's a different story.

Epomis said:
I'm kinda surprised that the OP mentioned Neverwinter but not that Pathfinder Online has been funded.
Yeah, I missed a few. I also forgot to mention Final Fantasy XIV.
 

klausaidon

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World of Warcraft I've played obsessively. I'm not at the moment, but I'll probably go back after the last raid is released for Pandaria.

I've played a lot of MMOs before though. None seem to manage the level of polish WoW has though. It just can't be done, against a game that has about a decade of polish. The only way to really impact the MMO market is to actually innovate the market with something truly ground breaking, and I just don't see any developers doing anything drastically different with their games. Elder Scrolls Online at least does look a little interesting, but we'll see how it's launch goes.
 

4RM3D

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Savagezion said:
But it isn't Blizzard's (WoW) fault that every company wants to be like them. Like I said, companies thought they found a gold mine. But they didn't dig deep enough and now they are left with nothing.

SpunkeyMonkey said:
The trouble with MMORPG for me is that so many fell in love with the idea behind it, without realizing the reality was far from what they were actually looking for - namely a suped up, table-top RPG experience.
Dungeons & Dragons Online should have been like that with a huge toolkit for dungeon masters to create an unique scenario for fellow players. There each dungeon is controlled by a real person, not a boss NPC. But alas, it was not so. It didn't work out.

The idea is nice though.

ItsNotRudy said:
Dota, LoL, HoN etc are not MMORPGS but MOBAS.
I know. That's why I said: "though technically not a MMORPG". I just couldn't remember the right acronym 'MOBA'.

That Hyena Bloke said:
What are you talking about? I'm seeing more players on my server than ever before, and I haven't found a source for this sort of claim, only biased articles that used quote mining to misrepresent AreaNet's statements.
There were a few articles floating around. This one is from The Escapist:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.402677-Guild-Wars-2-May-Be-The-End-Of-The-Franchise
 

Lilani

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May 27, 2009
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4RM3D said:
And while on the subject:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
- Are you still playing it?
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
- I played Final Fantasy XI for about 7 years. It was great, I loved the stories and even though I quit about three years ago I'm still in contact with the people I played with.

- I'm not still playing it. I was forced to quit because I moved to a place where my Internet connection wasn't stable enough to run an MMO properly, but even when I came back I just didn't have time to play it anymore. I'm tempted to go back because there's a new expansion coming out, but I'd have to start back from level 1 at this point and there's just no way I can do that right now.

- Again, Final Fantasy XI.

- I'm tempted to start Final Fantasy XIV in the summer once I get better Internet at my apartment. I'll have to see what sort of work I'm doing then, but the reason I'm willing to go to that instead of XI is because my XI friends are there, and because it's still new starting at level 1 won't be so difficult. I believe the beta just happened for the game's re-release.
 

Rob Robson

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4RM3D said:
And while on the subject:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
- Are you still playing it?
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
In the same order:

- The Secret World

- Sporadically, though Natural Selection 2 is stealing my time. Though I do have a life time sub to TSW.

- Corum Online, really really old Korean Final Fantasy/ Diablo 2 workalike.

- World of Darkness by CCP. As a guild leader I am however obligated to assess Elder Scrolls Online and ArcheAge too. My (really awesome and well developed) instincts tell me however that TESO will be shallow shit (much like Rift) and that ArcheAge will give way too much advantage to alpha and beta players who have already been playing the damn thing for 2 years.
 

Bug MuIdoon

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4RM3D said:
What do you think of the state of MMORPGs these days?
I wouldn't really know to be fair. I've searched around a bit for a new MMO to play, but never found one I liked enough to settle.

4RM3D said:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
I tried Dragonica but didn't like it after a few days. It really lacked content, Ideas and community.

4RM3D said:
- Are you still playing it?
Nope

4RM3D said:
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
Maplestory Europe. I played it for about 3-4 years since its beta. It was originally a very tough, hardcore grind fest that had great mechanics, was user friendly, an awesome community and fairly original to boot. I was rank 1 for my class during the time I played. Unfortunately, over time, the company who owned it became money grabbing dickwads and forced so much of the core elements of the game towards micro payments. They neglected the user base and let the game become overrun with hackers, advertisements and currency sellers. After a big patch a few years ago it also became incredibly easy which took all form of challenge and fun out of it for me.

I will say though, I have made some great friends from that game. Many of whom I keep in contact with and still visit them.

4RM3D said:
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
Not really. I'm not a responsibility-free kid anymore. MMO's are such a time baron and I just don't have that sort of freedom in real life to dedicate a few years to a game. I'd rather just play game in my own time without the feeling that "I need to be playing it right now or I could be falling behind/missing out"
 

Killclaw Kilrathi

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4RM3D said:
That Hyena Bloke said:
What are you talking about? I'm seeing more players on my server than ever before, and I haven't found a source for this sort of claim, only biased articles that used quote mining to misrepresent AreaNet's statements.
There were a few articles floating around. This one is from The Escapist:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.402677-Guild-Wars-2-May-Be-The-End-Of-The-Franchise
That's actually exactly what I was talking about. The article is rather poorly written and misses the point they were making. GW2 isn't creating expansions or a sequel, but WoW doesn't have a sequel either after more than ten years. The quotes from AreaNet were talking about how they're focusing on their living world approach to the game, which has actually been quite successful. You should also keep in mind that GW2 hasn't even been out for a year yet, talking about sequels is extremely premature for an MMO.
 

EstrogenicMuscle

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I'm glad that the trendy era is over. It means less people will try to mimic World of Warcraft. And there will less gimmicky clones trying to get in on the industry and more honest attempts at making good MMORPGs. Or so I want to think.

I have to say that I liked the MMORPG trend better than the First Person Shooter trend, because I like MMORPGs better than first person shooters.

I think that MMORPGs are far from dead. The industry is merely simmering and hopefully cooking up something good. Project Titan? Also, the era is far from dead in South Korea.

The last MMORPG I played is Tera.

Am I still playing it? Not right now, I'm taking a small break. Though it keeps nagging at me that I don't have +12 Visionmaker and every day that I don't play my friends are getting close. And probably wondering what in the heck happened to me.

The MMORPG I have spent the most time on is undoubtably Final Fantasy XI. I played that game upon American release and stuck with it for several years. It is a legendary game. And deserves much more fame than it has.

- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
INNOVATION. AND DITCHING THE MUD FORMULA.

I want a graphical MUSH in my MMORPG, not as much a MUD. I'm a huge roleplayer and I get sick of the same old grind.

I want something new and innovative, something that turns the genre on its head while still having some of the same things I love. All of the cutesy East Asian stuff like the catgirls and the Elin, and the Mithra and the Tarutaru. All of that Final Fantasy and Korean type stuff. That's great.

What I'm sick of is the same old gameplay. And perhaps take more cues from both jRPGs and wRPGs. These are all RPGs, after all. Why not more Chrono Trigger and Elder Scrolls? Why not more Witcher and Dark Souls and Tales of Vesperia in an MMORPG? I want different. I want new. I want innovation. And while innovation isn't always great. MMORPGs desperately need it. They've been so painfully samey for so many years.

Or wait, you were asking for a specific game. I'm going to play Blade and Soul and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn when they are released. If they're at least decent, I enjoy the East Asian aesthetic choices in both games.
 

VanQ

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4RM3D said:
VanQ said:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
I got into the Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn closed beta.

- Are you still playing it?
No, but I can't state why because it's still under non-disclosure.
I have played the original beta (FF XIV version 1.0 0.1). That was a huge disappointed. A half finished game with a myriad of trouble and bugs. Also, give a jump button, damn it! The game came out way too earlier. At least the monthly subscription was put on hold. Anyhow, Final Fantasy XI was much better.

PS. Also why was Final Fantasy XI not called Final Fantasy Online (and FFXIV FF Online 2)? It makes no sense whatsoever to call it XI. It was a stupid decision, IMO.
I think I can say this much. If you're hoping for Final Fantasy XI 2 then you will be sorely disappointed. I hope you like World of Warcraft.
 

BloatedGuppy

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EstrogenicMuscle said:
I'm glad that the trendy era is over. It means less people will try to mimic World of Warcraft. And there will less gimmicky clones trying to get in on the industry and more honest attempts at making good MMORPGs. Or so I want to think.
I wouldn't bet on it. WoW is still very much an industry trendsetter. You can expect to see it heavily influence the genre for another 10+ years.

As for clones...no one has even come close to "cloning" WoW. At best they have superficially aped it, and utterly failed to capture the essence of what made it successful almost every single time. At best they were poor imitations. There were also a lot of attempts to re-invent the wheel, nearly all of which were rejected by the players.

I really do hope we see some sandbox MMOs that really try and upset the apple cart and take the genre in startling new directions, but I don't expect to see it any time soon. Why? There's no proven business model. MMOs are comically expensive. Even the lower end ones are awfully pricey. It would be extremely difficulty, to, say, kickstart an MMO. You can't just chase a niche, not if you want someone to actually fund the fucking thing.
 

DanielBrown

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What do you think of the state of MMORPGs these days?
Not many worth to play to be honest. Too many clones, and the ones that try new things(like GW2) end up not being much fun.

- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
LOTRO

- Are you still playing it?
Yes. Been playing it for the past two-three years. Taking a break at the moment due to the last expansion being dull and extremely grindy. Not sure if it's gonna be a permanent break or not, but it's been two months and I still don't feel like playing. Logging in once in a while, though it's not any lengthy sessions.

- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
WoW. Played it on and off for five or six years. Quit after Cataclysm because no friends played anymore and it just sucked all around. Could never stand that awful community and after the LFG tool it got worse than ever.

- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
Not really. Elder Scrolls Online might be intresting, but I'm a bit sick of MMOs in general atm. If I start playing daily again it would be LOTRO.
 

suitepee7

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Dec 6, 2010
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- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
WoW, and before that GW2
- Are you still playing it?
yes to WoW, no to GW2. personally i didn't find much enjoyment in GW2, and i love the PVP in WoW. in fact it was my distaste for GW2 pvp that i resubbed
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
again, WoW, by far. i always go back to it when i get bored of other games/need a time filler
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
not really. i look forward to new patches and expansions though. ES:O doesn't really interest me that much, but i may change my tune once it has been released and i get a proper look at it.

as for the general state? tbh not fantastic. the ones that exist are going pretty strong, but newcomers have to compete with that existing market, and - especially with subscription based models - it is hard to pry non-MMO players into that style of game, and payment style. then to convert the existing MMO players presents a new challenge in getting them to play something other than what they are already playing.
 

DeltaEdge

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4RM3D said:
What do you think of the state of MMORPGs these days?
To be honest, I don't really know. I only really play one mmorpg.

4RM3D said:
- What is the last MMORPG you have played?
LaTale, the OGPlanet version

4RM3D said:
- Are you still playing it?
Yes, I am still actively playing it and enjoying it. It doesn't feel like a "clone" of any other game to me, and I find it legitimately enjoyable to play. I just wish it didn't take so long for us to get updates after the korean version though, and they really need more translators on their GM team. (It's a 2D side-scroller by the way)

4RM3D said:
- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?
LaTale by far, as I started back in 2008, and am still playing even now, although I did take some mid to long breaks inbetween that big chunk of time.

4RM3D said:
- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?
Not really, MMORPGs are a big timesink, and I don't really want to be bogged down by more than one, especially if I am legitimately enjoying the one that I am playing. I am looking forward to the Season 2 update for LaTale that will change everything for the better though.
 

Benni88

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I've had similar thoughts to OP in recent times, largely because of the lack of success of most other MMORPGs since Wow.

I think what we're really waiting for is a shift in the design paradigm. I was really excited for Guildwars 2, I followed it's progress for a long time, years in fact, and was left quite disappointed.

What really needs to occur is movement away from the old skillbars, Diablo HUD and looting/questing systems that are the case for almost every MMORPG currently out there. Most of these games seem to be unsatisfying in the way the player engages with the environment.

I believe that a focus on action-based combat and new methods of character development will reinvigorate the genre. There aren't too many which seem to be doing that so far, but I saw an interesting example that is definitely in the right direction: http://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/

I think this game still looks too similar to current MMOs but the combat seems to have an aspect which hasn't been explored hugely in the current generation.

I'd like to hope that MMORPGs aren't done yet, as I've had some awesome times on them with my friends and would like to have some in the future too.
 

Benni88

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention. TOO MANY MENUS!!! MMO developers need to lose as many as possible as it break immersion hugely.
 

Newtonyd

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I probably won't be playing any more MMOs until some developer realizes some very important things and makes a game that:

1. Doesn't invest money into creating some generic Good Vs. Evil or Faction vs. Faction or other generic storyline. Instead, developers should realize that the players can create more interesting stories than any wall of text questline, because it feels infinitely more real and important to the player.

For example, if a game turned on player vs. player combat and full loot across the world, your environment and playstyle becomes immediately more important.

Let's say you walk into a dungeon, but the monsters inside are too tough for you. You meet up with another player just outside the dungeon and team up with them. You fight your way together all the way to the bottom, defeat a big bad boss, and open a treasure chest. Inside is a +5 sword of awesome that you both want. You disagree on who gets to keep it, and one player hits the other and a fight to the death begins for the sword. This is just one example.

2. Recognize the importance of new content and plenty of endgame for the players. This can be achieved through procedurally generated content, randomized events, long-term goals of actual relevance, or even through releasing a game toolset to the players and allowing them to generate content that might make it into the game.

Neverwinter is trying this last one, but we have yet to see how it will be adapted and whether their approach will work out.

3. Innovating combat systems. I'm talking about moving past things like hotkey mashing games like WoW where half your screen is filled up by hotkeys, many of which you may not need to use for hours or days of gameplay. Furthermore, games like Guild Wars 2 would have been substantially more fun if they had simply dropped the targeting system entirely.

Imagine a melee combat system like the one used in Mount and Blade, except expanded beyond the 4 direction combat. Or imagine drawing symbols in the air with your mouse in order to cast spells. Really, there's plenty of room for imagination in gameplay, something that would have benefited the endless WoW clones.
 

Auron225

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- What is the last MMORPG you have played?

The only one I've ever played is Runescape. I did really like it at the time and played it a lot for a few years but it got to the stage where leveling up was taking far too long and I'd done the vast majority of the quests that don't have ridiculous requirements. Also exams were coming up so I stopped.

- Are you still playing it?

As I just said, no.

- Which MMORPG have you spend the most time on?

...guess.

- Are you looking forward to any new MMORPG?

I'm actually considering getting FFXIV when it is re-released depending on how it works. Do you have to pay a regular fee even after you buy the game, ala FFXI? Cus if so then forget it.