The Surge (May 16)

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

The only problem I have is what race will the player be, regular human/abhuman/Eldar/Tau is probably the best but you miss a lot of cool weapons. Space Marines can use pretty much everything they steal (*cough*Blood Ravens*cough*) but are already start OP which misses a lot of the atmosphere.

I think it would be smart to limit it to the intelligent races that uses tools and can handle a one on one fight with a good part of other races. But that doesn't mean you limit the other races as enemies.

Say you run into a SM chapter that was driven mad by Khorne, attacking everyone they see. Space Marines would see putting down a Chapter like that as the Emperor's Mercy. Chaos wouldn't care either way who they kill. Stuff like that.

If I had to do a start, I'd say the SM, CSM, Eldar, and the Orks. Maybe three classes per race.

Say, SM has the Assault, the Tactical and the Terminators. Such as the "Assaults" are the only one from the Space Marines who can dual wield, who can use shields, and who can use jetpacks. "Tacticals" can have weaponized servo-skulls or Servitors (like the pet class of the Space Marines). "Terminators" simply are slower than the rest, but have the heaviest weapons.

And from each class, of course you can get specializations. Such as Choosing if they are going to be Deathwatch, GK, or Apothecaries. Apothecaries who can heal and place buffs (let alone make poisons and other DoTs), Deathwatch who can debuff enemies and has traits to raise his critical hit chances, or Grey knights who can use psyker skills but with a fear that if he uses it too much, he can open rifts of daemons that will instantly come and attack the GK and his party.


But to your OP point, remember how deep the Warhammer 40k well goes. We're talking about a universe that has Star Gods that caused every sentient being to know fear of death just by existing. I think an fledging Eldar Striking Scorpion can find a challenge or two.

Just the sheer amount of skills and loot is making me drool. Why isn't this being developed?

 

[Kerg3927]

Found a going in blind let's play about the first hour + boss fight. Seems pretty much what I expected, although sadly the video doesn't get into the crafting/slicing body parts for loot part that much, which I'm interested in the most.

The crafting system sounds fun.

 

[Terminal Blue]

On one hand, the concept is cool and I seem to be one of the minority of souls fans who doesn't fixate over an extremely restrictive idea of how souls games should play, so I suspect I'll enjoy it.

On the other hand.. lords of the shield bash..

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I am hopeful with this one. Looking good so far. Lords of the fallen was alright I guess, but too generic in every sense. This, however...we shall see.

 

[Kerg3927]

... a targeting system that doesn't force you to look down at the ground when you're near an opponent, especially a huge one whose body is out of the frame.

I assume you're talking about lock on. I never used the lock on feature in any of the Souls games. It just felt awkward. Not locking on felt much more natural to me me, with better camera vision and freedom of movement. I beat all 3 games just fine multiple times without it. PC w/ KB+M. Of course, I never used spells except a heal spell. Straight melee. I think you kinda have to lock on to hit anything with ranged spells.

But the limb selection system in the Surge seems to require lock on, so it will be interesting to see how it feels/works.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Starting with Terminators is a bit too much, have a SM scout on his first mission be trapped in never ending reincarnation. Him getting insanely badass and even acquiring Terminator armor will be justified by the experience and feel organic. But my problem is that if you have SM some races like Eldar won't be able to wield their weapons fluff and size-wise and pretty much every other race's basic unit will be in a massive power gap (unless you have everyone start as proficent, but then you lose the helpless feeling).

On the other hand Humans, Abhumans, Tau, Kroot and Eldar are about the same body size and thus can use the same weapons with starting class and abilities unique to them (Eldar better at Dex and Warp magic, Tau better at guns and warp resistant, humans can expertise in everything) so having only them can work better.

I thought the Specializations would be unlocked at like, level 15. I would think if an Eldar player could be a Wraith Guard right off the bat, he would find little problems walking through enemies.

I actually think what you said about some weapons being hard to wield would be interesting. An Eldar Dire Avenger must decide if they want to risk slower run speed and a horrible striking animation for the raw DPS of a Thunder Hammer.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

From the TotalBiscuit video, Surge seems to fix a major issue with the Souls formula, which is trash mobs. Normal enemies actually seemed to be legit dangerous threats when compared to Souls enemies that you only die from because you just take beating them for granted and either rush through them or just don't fight with enough focus.

 

[Cowabungaa]

That isn't going to stop me from rolling my eyes at a studio without any higher ambition than producing inferior imitations.

Except that their ambition is to create new works in a budding genre and get better at those. From everything that I've seen they're indeed improving.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I think it looks kinda neat and has potential. A different take on the formula might be refreshing.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

snips

I think we should work shop the ideas of this game in another thread, we're being a bit rude to people where who want to discuss the Surge. But we have enough Wh 40k/dark Souls fans that we should a good discussion going.

From the TotalBiscuit video, Surge seems to fix a major issue with the Souls formula, which is trash mobs. Normal enemies actually seemed to be legit dangerous threats when compared to Souls enemies that you only die from because you just take beating them for granted and either rush through them or just don't fight with enough focus.

I'm absolutely glad you mentioned his video, because to date he said the two things I haven't thought of until this point.

1.) There's absolutely no primary ranged weapons save for your Probe/Drone that can get updates with abilities.

2.) There are only Five types of weapons. One handed melee, two handed melee, one armed rig weapon (a weapon mounted to your one of your rig's arms), two armed rig weapon, and staffs.

Suddenly this game feels very rigid and small. Part of the fun in Dark Souls is trying out new weapons and abilites mixes to see how the game play would be if I just did Fist weapons with Pyromancy, or if I could manage with a Whip/Dark Miracle Build. Daggers and Heavy Shields sounds fun. There are options to try to make work if you're just bored one day with Dark Souls.

I don't know if I can put money down on The Surge at this point. I feel like I will see all I would see in a single playthrough with this game, and that's not what I'm looking for in a Souls-like game.

 

[Zhukov]

That isn't going to stop me from rolling my eyes at a studio without any higher ambition than producing inferior imitations.

Except that their ambition is to create new works in a budding genre and get better at those. From everything that I've seen they're indeed improving.

Totally. Well said.

Rather like how Unearthed: Trail of Ibn Battuta [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdAGLQlYdRE] was an ambitious effort to create new works in a budding genre.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Part of the fun in Dark Souls is trying out new weapons and abilites mixes to see how the game play would be if I just did Fist weapons with Pyromancy, or if I could manage with a Whip/Dark Miracle Build. Daggers and Heavy Shields sounds fun. There are options to try to make work if you're just bored one day with Dark Souls.

I never understood the "build" aspect of a Souls game. You're either dodging then attacking or blocking then attacking, there's really nothing different whether you're using a sword & shield or daggers & shield. Yeah, there's magic but it's basically the same whether sorcery or faith and even pyromancy (yeah, I know, technically not magic), and magic just feels cheap IMO. I can find more playstyles in Bayonetta (weapons actually have different functions) or an Arkane game like Dishonored or the new Prey than a Souls game. Even Horizon Zero Dawn offers more creativity with how you can take on enemies.

 

[Imre Csete]

I never understood the "build" aspect of a Souls game. You're either dodging then attacking or blocking then attacking, there's really nothing different whether you're using a sword & shield or daggers & shield. Yeah, there's magic but it's basically the same whether sorcery or faith and even pyromancy (yeah, I know, technically not magic), and magic just feels cheap IMO. I can find more playstyles in Bayonetta (weapons actually have different functions) or an Arkane game like Dishonored or the new Prey than a Souls game. Even Horizon Zero Dawn offers more creativity with how you can take on enemies.

The way I see it, you can easily disregard 90%+ of the equipment/spells in PvE. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, I waste a lot of time farming upgrades for new weapons to try out, but eventually I just stick with what worked before. I've yet to play DS3, but in 2 a lot of the weapons feel like PvP trick stuff with all the durability loss moves (RIP Dragonslayer Spear), so they are even more negligible.

In the grim darkness of Souls, there is only Fashion.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The way I see it, you can easily disregard 90%+ of the equipment/spells in PvE. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, I waste a lot of time farming upgrades for new weapons to try out, but eventually I just stick with what worked before. I've yet to play DS3, but in 2 a lot of the weapons feel like PvP trick stuff with all the durability loss moves (RIP Dragonslayer Spear), so they are even more negligible.

In the grim darkness of Souls, there is only Fashion.

I never got into Souls PvP but PvP does make lots of "little things" or non-consequential things into important factors like say the slide mechanic in a FPS, rather useless against AI but a huge difference maker against human opponents.

 

[Imre Csete]

I never got into Souls PvP but PvP does make lots of "little things" or non-consequential things into important factors like say the slide mechanic in a FPS, rather useless against AI but a huge difference maker against human opponents.

Me neither, I had enough of MMO griefing when I played actual MMOs, so it lost its novelity very fast with me.

But from what I gathered, weapon movesets matter a lot more, weapon reach aswell, stamina consumption to perform moveset combos is important, min-maxing stats while maintaining ideal soul levels for invading, swapping rings mid animation for bonuses when the attack connects, frequent use of negative status effect weapons, etc. There is definitely a lot more to consider.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I've yet to play DS3, but in 2 a lot of the weapons feel like PvP trick stuff with all the durability loss moves (RIP Dragonslayer Spear), so they are even more negligible.

2 played very uniquely in regards to weapon durability by having it be a resource which goes down very fast but is replenished automatically at bonfires (unless your weapon breaks). If you were using a katana or a thrusting sword, there were some areas of the game which would be difficult to get through if you were only using one weapon without some way to counter durability loss.

The dragonslayer spear and other weapons with moves that cost durability were generally very strong, but had to be used sparingly or paired up with a lot of durability mitigation (there was a ring which slowed durability loss, and you could also get a sorcery spell to repair weapons).

In DS3 they mostly got rid of the system and replaced it with "weapon arts". Instead of some weapons doing weird things with the strong attack, every weapon now has a special move which does something cool (a warcry which temporarily buffs your attack, a new stance which enables powerful shield-breaking attacks and things like the DSS's lightning bolt). All these cost focus points (a kind of mana resource which is also used for spells) and durability costs are generally removed. There is one exception in that the moonlight greatsword still costs durability to use its laser beam, but it makes sense because it's designed for sorcerer characters who will want to save their focus points for spells and, if needs be, have access to the repair spell).

It's a far better system overall, but there are arguments to be made in favour of DS2's degradation system promoting using certain powerful weapons sparingly. A lot of dark souls players (including myself) build around a certain weapon, but I always got the feeling you were supposed to have several weapons tailored to different situations.