"The Talk" makes fun of castrated man.

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teebeeohh

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you know whats funny?
a guy getting a football kicked into his balls. Yes it hurts like hell but he will most likely be OK.

the worst thing is that will be end up linked to feminism and the people who try to actually make a difference and fight for equality will suffer.
 

Dastardly

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Xiado said:
Black and white are colors, not objectively different in meaning. The thing that makes blackface offensive is the history of hate and discrimination behind the humor.
So what you're trying to say is that this can't be humor, because it is "offensive." But, by your own admission, it is only offensive based on subjective context, not by any objective measure. So, because it is subjectively offensive, it is objectively not humor?

The penis represents specific things in the human psyche, and it has since the dawn of time, and will long after feminism equalizes gender roles. One being male dominance.
Wholly unsubstantiated claim. How is it, do you suppose, that you know males have dominated since the dawn of time? Is this true in all cultures, worlwide? Has it always been? Well, sociology has already proven you wrong, as there are many examples of matriarchal societies out there -- you can research them, if you like.

But I digress. This perception of the penis is a wholly subjective bias. There is no objective authority that demands the penis serve only as a symbol of male dominance. It is a male sexual organ, a product of biology. It is not the entirety of the male body, nor the male psyche.

Humor is a reversal of the expected, and a woman cutting her man's dick off is a reversal of the traditional dominance of the penis. That's why it's funny. Whether you laugh or not, it is humor.
You subscribe to a very limited definition of humor. You're talking about one sort, which is "irony." Here's the thing--irony is based on thwarted expectations, and expectations are subjective predictions based on personal experience. That's why certain things are only funny to certain social groups--if you don't have the requisite expectations established, the thwarting of that expectation has no effect on you.

There are other facets to humor. Slapstick isn't based on "reversal of the expected." It's more akin to schadenfreude -- finding pleasure in the misfortune of others. It's basically common to all of us, whether it be the more sadistic sort... or just a simple, "Whew, glad that's not me!" reaction.

Or there's caricature/parody -- which is actually exaggerating certain features, actually emphasizing the expectations of the audience, rather than undermining them. And of course there's satire, which goes all the way around the bend by creating a caricature, but then showing the ridiculousness of that caricature.

But you're trying to tie the entirety of humor to one aspect, to the exclusion of all others. Racism, according to you, isn't funny because it's based on irrational hatred and fundamental inequality... while the sexist treatment of genital mutilation is somehow funny because it's based on, what, an older irrational hatred and fundamental inequality?

That's called a "No True Scotsman" fallacy, if you're interested.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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Disaster Button said:
I think the worst part of that is when one of the women actually mentioned that it would be considered a tragedy if the roles were reversed, and that this isn't funny and there shouldn't be a difference who it happened to, then the others said that it was different because it happened to a man, and is therefore funny. Then made a joke that it's different because it's easier to do to a man. Huh?
That part made me cringe and want to smack the others for even thinking that. Oh yes, male mutilation is HILARIOUS! Female mutilation? Where's that asshole?! Someone hand me some rope stat!

And people wonder why I can't stand shows with all females, it's this crap right here.

BTW, I'm trash talking my own gender, so please, be nice.
 

Hugga_Bear

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Xiado said:
Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK, I realize this is what everyone is saying already, but I'm just going to say it too. It's a good point.

Imagine if a woman filed for a divorce with her husband, and he responded by mutilating her sex organ. Then imagine, that on a TV show consisting of a group of men with a male audience all laughed about it and said "That'll teach her." These men would be looked at as horrible sexist pigs AT BEST and certainly wouldn't be able to keep their show on the air.

Now, what do you think is going to happen to these women? At most, an apology on their next show?

Good FUCK, I hate double-standards.
It's a double standard (and should always remain so) because the penis and vagina symbolize two very different things in the human psyche. The penis is the intruder, the disruptor, and it has been intruded upon and disrupted. It seems ridiculous, so we joke about it. It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things. That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
Not really. It would be like the little old woman assaulting a man in the street, mugging him then gutting him to bleed to death slowly.

But that's HI-lariousssss
right?

The guy was innocent, he wanted a divorce. She drugs him, ties him up and mutilates his body. That's not funny, it's disgusting, terrible and fucking insane.

If a guy tied a woman up because she wanted a divorce and, say, cut her breasts off, or her lips out or mutilated her genitals you'd consider it a normal role? Role reversal for laughs is old hat and done well yeah it's funny. This isn't role reversal, this is fucking psychopath crazy ***** fucks up a man. That's exactly the same as fucking psychopath crazy wanker fucks up a girl. Exactly the same.

It's not funny, you can try and make it funny but it's not. You can try and make rape funny but it's not. This isn't a role reversal, it's just fucked up.
 
May 5, 2010
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Xiado said:
Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK, I realize this is what everyone is saying already, but I'm just going to say it too. It's a good point.

Imagine if a woman filed for a divorce with her husband, and he responded by mutilating her sex organ. Then imagine, that on a TV show consisting of a group of men with a male audience all laughed about it and said "That'll teach her." These men would be looked at as horrible sexist pigs AT BEST and certainly wouldn't be able to keep their show on the air.

Now, what do you think is going to happen to these women? At most, an apology on their next show?

Good FUCK, I hate double-standards.
It's a double standard (and should always remain so) because the penis and vagina symbolize two very different things in the human psyche. The penis is the intruder, the disruptor, and it has been intruded upon and disrupted. It seems ridiculous, so we joke about it. It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things. That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
I really don't see how TOM AND MOTHERFUCKING JERRY applies to real life. You can talk about symbols and "what's expected" all you want, but I don't see how any of it matters. Something horrible happened to this guy and what, you think it's funny just because men usually abuse women? What? No, that's insane. The guy doesn't deserve less sympathy and dignity just because he's A GUY.

And you should really stop bringing up cartoons. Nobody actually gets hurt in cartoons, so how funny or not funny they are is completely irrelevant to this.
 

SilentCom

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Stupid women will be stupid I suppose. It isn't funny that the guy had his man part cut off and shoved in a disposal. Cutting off any part of a person is rather grotesque.

As far as the women on the show, they weren't exactly being a good example for other women. It's not empowerment, it's just disgusting. I mean seriously? Why is it viewed wrong that a man filed for divorce, enough for his wife to cut off a piece of him and for other women to laugh about it? He has just as much a right to file for divorce as a woman would if the relationship isn't going well.

The wife deserves some real jail time for assault and mutilation. Also, the divorce should definitely go through.
 

Dastardly

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Xiado said:
It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things.
Here's the problem with your example: The two characters are "little old lady" and "mugger". See, you've already established that this character is of ill repute based on his past misdeeds. It's not "little old lady robs younger gentleman."

What makes it different in the real world, where real people live and use the real definitions of real words? In order for this story to have that "Haha, serves him right" component, he must already be typecast as "the bad guy." For no reason whatsoever, because we aren't provided any information that makes it so.

There is an underlying inequality there, and that's the part that is particularly enraging. The fact that we can find this funny, but not the reversed situation, is because so many people readily accept the suggestion that the man is always at fault. That is an inequality in perception, and it can (and should) be corrected rather than defended or encouraged. Just like we have done (and continue to do so) with racism.

In choosing this example, you've actually done more to damage your point than to uphold it. Unless you're saying you genuinely believe there is nothing inaccurate about a "guilty until proven innocent" approach to men and an "innocent even when proven guilty" approach to women?

(Also, you've indicated -- see bolded text in quote -- that somehow we were supposed to expect that this man would mutilate his wife's genitals. I'm hoping that was accidental, but I thought I'd point out that this is what this statement objectively implies.)

That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
(NOTE: We very often DO laugh at a show where "the cat wins." The whole reason "happily ever after" works is because we expect it, and feel rewarded when we are given it. Irony is only ONE type of humor.)

Tom and Jerry are predator and prey. This is a relationship established in the natural order of the food chain. As such, the roles assigned to them are accurate. The perception that "cat is predator" and "mouse is prey"? Perfectly valid. It is only for that reason that a changing of those roles -- either the cat and mouse are friends, or the mouse preys upon the cat -- is widely accepted as funny.

There was also a time when white society, by and large, accepted the fact that black people were basically only valuable as unskilled labor and/or entertainment. And because they believed it was a valid distinction, they were able to accept humor based on that expectation. We have since (for the most part) worked to show that it is not a valid distinction, and there is a lot less acceptance for that sort of humor... or at least we're able to allow it on both sides, now.

This "men are oppressors by nature" construct is just as invalid. This situation is only funny to people who believe so misguided a construct. The "serves him right" only works if we already automatically believe the man to be guilty. To go back to your original example, he must already be "the mugger," absent of any evidence.

That is an assumption and attribution of traits based on subjective perceptions, incomplete information, and stereotypes. That is the very definition of a "prejudice." This man is pre-judged to have been somehow deserving of this -- at least in the eyes of those that find it funny.

That's a problem, so don't be so surprised that people want to see it fixed.
 

SilentCom

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Xiado said:
Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK, I realize this is what everyone is saying already, but I'm just going to say it too. It's a good point.

Imagine if a woman filed for a divorce with her husband, and he responded by mutilating her sex organ. Then imagine, that on a TV show consisting of a group of men with a male audience all laughed about it and said "That'll teach her." These men would be looked at as horrible sexist pigs AT BEST and certainly wouldn't be able to keep their show on the air.

Now, what do you think is going to happen to these women? At most, an apology on their next show?

Good FUCK, I hate double-standards.
It's a double standard (and should always remain so) because the penis and vagina symbolize two very different things in the human psyche. The penis is the intruder, the disruptor, and it has been intruded upon and disrupted. It seems ridiculous, so we joke about it. It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things. That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
Tom and Jerry isn't that funny but when people do deem it funny, it's because it's not real. How often do you see the absurdity of personified cats and mice hurting each other with slap-stick style comedy?

Real life problems aren't really funny. Those women were rather sexist, one of them even remarked on it and yet they persisted and stated "it's not the same thing." This comment clearly spoke of double-standard.

Also, as far as the penis being seen as the intruder, it's only an intruder if it's not invited. This is otherwise called rape. Considering the couple was married, I would have to assume the sex was consented, therefore seeing the penis as an intruder would be faulty reasoning given the context.

If she was that mad at him, and he seemed to realize that the relationship wasn't very strong, then divorce would have been the better option. The only other option would be to sort things out as to prevent divorce. The major problem is when she decide to cut off his dick. Clearly she didn't care enough about him to want to maintain the relationship and would rather cause permanent damage to him.
 

cthulhumythos

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Xiado said:
Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK, I realize this is what everyone is saying already, but I'm just going to say it too. It's a good point.

Imagine if a woman filed for a divorce with her husband, and he responded by mutilating her sex organ. Then imagine, that on a TV show consisting of a group of men with a male audience all laughed about it and said "That'll teach her." These men would be looked at as horrible sexist pigs AT BEST and certainly wouldn't be able to keep their show on the air.

Now, what do you think is going to happen to these women? At most, an apology on their next show?

Good FUCK, I hate double-standards.
It's a double standard (and should always remain so) because the penis and vagina symbolize two very different things in the human psyche. The penis is the intruder, the disruptor, and it has been intruded upon and disrupted. It seems ridiculous, so we joke about it. It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things. That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
well, in both your cases, ( a mugger getting mugged and tom & jerry) the person that the bad thing is happening to is malevolent.

tom & jerry wouldn't be funny if tom instead was just minding his own business and then got attacked by an unprovoked jerry.

sure some of the humor is about "this is backwards" but it's also in the comeuppance that occurs on the antagonistic tom.
 

Hobohodo

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People have been kicked off the air for much less than this, and imo, this should be taken more seriously by the network. It's not right, to broadcast this, I mean, the guy who this happened to seeing this, what will he think? He's the laughing stock of tv? Also, what about people with similar experiences? Mutilation is in no way a laughing matter, whether it be his privates, or an arm, its still a serious thing, and to make humour out of it is terrible.
 

BRex21

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Sep 24, 2010
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Xiado said:
Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
OK, I realize this is what everyone is saying already, but I'm just going to say it too. It's a good point.

Imagine if a woman filed for a divorce with her husband, and he responded by mutilating her sex organ. Then imagine, that on a TV show consisting of a group of men with a male audience all laughed about it and said "That'll teach her." These men would be looked at as horrible sexist pigs AT BEST and certainly wouldn't be able to keep their show on the air.

Now, what do you think is going to happen to these women? At most, an apology on their next show?

Good FUCK, I hate double-standards.
It's a double standard (and should always remain so) because the penis and vagina symbolize two very different things in the human psyche. The penis is the intruder, the disruptor, and it has been intruded upon and disrupted. It seems ridiculous, so we joke about it. It's like if a little old lady robs a big mugger at knifepoint and someone says "haha, serves him right", and you respond with: "you wouldn't laugh if it was the other way around". No fucking shit, because the other way is the expected and we don't laugh at ordinary horrible things, only unusual horrible things. That's why Tom & Jerry is funny, because mice aren't "supposed" to do horrible things to cats. We wouldn't laugh at a show where the cat just wins every time. You don't hate that double standard, do you?
This is a very sick attitude. Sex shouldnt be about a man intruding and disrupting his woman any more than getting a back rub is being innapropriately groped. Contrary to your belief a man having sex with someone is not a violent rape, consentual sex is at worst two people momentaraly providing each other with physical pleasure and often is a beautiful expression of two peoples love for each other. I also want to ask what is wrong with you if you honestly believe someone "has it coming" if they are robbed by an old woman? are you less of a victim if your mugger is less intimidating? People probably SHOULD point out you wouldnt laugh if it was the other way around. Would it be funny if a man got evicted because he couln't pay his rent after losing his money to someone with a knife?
What you are essentially saying is that because Man=Bad and Woman=Good men simply arent entitled to basic human rights. It is a mentality that allows and even promotes the abuse of people based solely on there gender and makes me ashamed at just how popular it is in our society and across the free world.
 

TonyVonTonyus

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Xiado said:
there is comedy in having your tool chopped off, in general.
....umm....no there isn't, that's fucking horrifying! Espcially having it destroyed in a garbage disposal. If that happens to me it's check-out time.