The Tipping Payment Salary System. Why is it still a thing?

[sneakypenguin]

One thing people seem to ignore is that people who make tips usually don't want to make salary. Even at a basic entry level chain like outback you can easily pull down 20+ an hour. Working at a step above outback restaurant my roommates would ***** about only pulling in 200 bucks on a "bad" friday evening. I'm like you just made 35 bucks an hour with a large portion of that "tax free" quit wining lol.

 

[Veldel]

Tipping is bullshit and I dont do it it. If you hate me for it then I don't care I don't tip.

But im not making any money. Well then report it a employer is required by law to bring your wages up to min wage if your tips are not enough. I never got tipped or expected them for my job so don't expect me to pay you for doing a simple task.


Tipping is such a load of bullshit and needs to be done away with already.

 

[kitsunefather]

To add my two cents; there are some states (Arizona and Florida immediately spring to mind) where an employer is allowed to pay below minimum wage for jobs where tips are "expected". It's been a few years since I lived in either state, but I remember when the federal minimum was 7.25, I got a (legal) job offer for 2.50 an hour as a cashier because the position would receive a cut of the tips for the shift. To make this worse, in Flagstaff (where I was living), there was also a 20+% sales tax on restaurant transactions, rather than the 8.3% sales tax that was standard.

This isn't to say it's a good system, or to justify these terrible conditions, but just to point out that in some places in the US, receiving tips is actually necessary for people to make a living wage, thanks to predatory employment laws. Mainly, I'm saying that if you care, be aware of your state laws in regards to wages for "gratuity-expected" positions.

That said, in every other state, employers DO pay at least minimum wage, and gratuity should be used as a way to reward excellent service rather than be expected for doing one's job.

On the subject of terrible working conditions, you guys should check out movie theaters in the US. In Arizona (again) at least, they are considered part of the "entertainment industry", and so fall under different working condition guidelines when it comes to required breaks and lunches, or shift lengths. Most of the entertainment industry has union muscle to enforce proper and safe conditions, but theater staff aren't permitted to unionize, so you can see a 6 to 8 hour shift go by without so more than a 10 minute break.

 

[Asita]

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, but the minimum wage itself varies based on where you live. In California, for example, the minimum wage is $10 an hour.

As for tipping, the way it is supposed to work is that the employer pays only as much as it takes to make minimum wage. For example, if someone earned enough in tips to reach $7 an hour, then the employer would have to pay the remaining 25 cents for each hour.

No, the way it's supposed to work is that tips turn a sucky minimum wage job into something which has decent compensation so long as you put in the effort. How it actually works [in the States] is that because tips are so ingrained into our food service culture a lot of proprietors feel comfortable using tips as a way to cut corners on the salaries. So instead of a sucky job with decent above-minimum compensation, it tends to end up being a sucky job where you're lucky to get minimum wage.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Tipping is bullshit and I dont do it it. If you hate me for it then I don't care I don't tip.

But im not making any money. Well then report it a employer is required by law to bring your wages up to min wage if your tips are not enough. I never got tipped or expected them for my job so don't expect me to pay you for doing a simple task.


Tipping is such a load of bullshit and needs to be done away with already.

While you're not wrong, I feel I should point out that the people you're hurting aren't the people that have to change.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Wow. Just the other day I was thinking about tipping and that I have not seen a thread on this on the Escapist in quite a while.

In the end I always come to the conclusion that it is a shitty system but I am not enough of an ideological zealot to refuse to tip and thus screw over a waiter.

One thing that always perplexed me was why we are supposed to tip for pizza delivery. It's a fixed service and the driver really does not add additional value beyond just driving. The FedEx or UPS guy does not expect to be tipped and some of the stuff they deliver can be extremely heavy.

Nah man, the FedEx guy is generally well paid and UPS is Union wages, and they don't have to buy their own fuel or service their own vehicles.

Meanwhile, pizza is minimum wage + not enough per delivery to cover gas and car maintenance. What, you didn't think that mandatory delivery charge was given to the driver, did you? Take it from me, I was a driver back when Dominos introduced that. All that $2.00 charge did was murder my tips.

 

[TechNoFear]

Australian award wage for hospitality workers is Au$17.70 / hr.
Plus Au$2.06 / hr between 19:00 to 24:00 Mon to Fri.
Plus Au$3.09 / hr between 24:00 to 07:00 Mon to Fri.

Au$22.13 on Saturdays and Au$30.98 on Sundays. Though the Sunday rate is currently being removed.

Generally Australians don't tip.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

One thing that always perplexed me was why we are supposed to tip for pizza delivery. It's a fixed service and the driver really does not add additional value beyond just driving. The FedEx or UPS guy does not expect to be tipped and some of the stuff they deliver can be extremely heavy.

Hot food delivered to your door within an hour, depending on volume of calls and order contents.

It's a service. Courtesy, ya know? Instead of you having to go get it yourself.

FedEX and UPS are on a time crunch with a pre-scheduled route you don't really have any control over. They also don't deliver during the evening on up to midnight. They're paid one whole hell of a lot better too.

To be straight with ya, I've almost died doing that job. Multiple times. Gimme a couple bucks for driving the 15 minutes to your house.

I did pizza delivery for a while many years ago. If you are a regular non-tipper, you'll get your pizza in the last few minutes of the delivery window, by which time it will be cold. I have, technically, fulfilled my side of the bargain.

I currently D the P and I don't do that sort of thing. Even if I know they're not tipping, I can't bring myself to get the thing there cold or something just on principle...granted, I'm not going to rush my ass off like with other folks, but still.

Do make a point to be extra nice to them though.

Guilt, motherfuckers, it works a surprising amount of the time.

 

[Trunkage]

Why not be fair and pay staff a decent wage and what exactly is the US minimum wage or is it divided by the state?

Because if you giver the food service workers (servers, cooks, dishwashers etc.) a living wage/pay them more, then the restaurant owners would have to raise the prices of the menu items (I'm guessing somewhere between 15-20%) and you would end up having to pay more for your food and service.
Just completely ignore the fact that with societal pressure practically forcing you to tip you are already paying more for your food than was advertised.

Now, I'm not American, but I believe that tips are 10%? So, based on your guess, you'd actually only pay 5% to 10% more.

Also, how much do meals cost? Like $20? So, at most, it would cost an extra $4. And half that you would already pay as a tip anyway? Sounds like a fair deal to me, as long as the pay went to the worker

 

[Trunkage]

Why not be fair and pay staff a decent wage and what exactly is the US minimum wage or is it divided by the state?

Dude - its called Capitalism. Fair is not part of the system. You have to place a bunch of institutions like Rule of Law and Property Rights just to get it to barely function.

I'd also point out that there are countries with no minimum wage. France has a highly unionised workforce because there are no pay protections. Minimum wage actually reduces unionisation which reduces frictions in the system.

 

[Robert Fishburne]

Wow. Just the other day I was thinking about tipping and that I have not seen a thread on this on the Escapist in quite a while.

In the end I always come to the conclusion that it is a shitty system but I am not enough of an ideological zealot to refuse to tip and thus screw over a waiter.

One thing that always perplexed me was why we are supposed to tip for pizza delivery. It's a fixed service and the driver really does not add additional value beyond just driving. The FedEx or UPS guy does not expect to be tipped and some of the stuff they deliver can be extremely heavy.

With some few exceptions the Fedex and UPS guy isn't delivering in their own vehicle. Also, they aren't paying for the gas for that vehicle or the upkeep and on top of all that they are likely making a four to seven times more than the $4 per hour most chain delivery drivers make while on the road. Oh, and on top of all that the pizza guys don't see dime one of the delivery charge these places tack on.

Now let's say that the above isn't compelling enough I want you to stop and really think if you want to piss off someone who is alone, and ultimately unsupervised , with your food from the time it leaves the store until it gets to your house. While I haven't delivered pizza I have worked back of house at a restaurant when I was in high school and I will tell you I have seen people who have had some vile shit done to their food eat it with a smile on their face. I remember gathering around to watch this poor bastard who never tipped and would milk the whole free soup and bread sticks thing beyond good manners eat soup his waiter blew a big nasty snot rocket into. I shudder to think what's happening to the food of people who regularly don't tip drivers when there are no witnesses around. It would take a braver person than me to piss those guys off. I order regularly from the same pizza place and always tip very well. I don't care if it's five hours late and the guy hands me an empty box he's still walking away with a ten dollar tip or better.

 

[Saelune]

Why not be fair and pay staff a decent wage and what exactly is the US minimum wage or is it divided by the state?

Because if you giver the food service workers (servers, cooks, dishwashers etc.) a living wage/pay them more, then the restaurant owners would have to raise the prices of the menu items (I'm guessing somewhere between 15-20%) and you would end up having to pay more for your food and service.
Just completely ignore the fact that with societal pressure practically forcing you to tip you are already paying more for your food than was advertised.

Now, I'm not American, but I believe that tips are 10%? So, based on your guess, you'd actually only pay 5% to 10% more.

Also, how much do meals cost? Like $20? So, at most, it would cost an extra $4. And half that you would already pay as a tip anyway? Sounds like a fair deal to me, as long as the pay went to the worker

10%? 15% is the expected minimum and even then alot of people would consider you a cheapskate. Plus it depends on your dining situation. I've never gone to a restaurant alone.

And alot of places split tips rather than just give all tips to whoever earned it.

As for "paying for more than advertized", tipping is essentially paying for the service. You are paying for them dealing with you, refilling drinks, taking and delivering your order, potentially fixing any errors, etc. Most people I know alter the tip based on how they felt the waiter acted (the rules vary from person to person, sometimes for really stupid reasons...my grandparents hated when one waiter said "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" when I said thanks to them. We still give them crap for it)

 

[pookie101]

Australian award wage for hospitality workers is Au$17.70 / hr.
Plus Au$2.06 / hr between 19:00 to 24:00 Mon to Fri.
Plus Au$3.09 / hr between 24:00 to 07:00 Mon to Fri.

Au$22.13 on Saturdays and Au$30.98 on Sundays. Though the Sunday rate is currently being removed.

Generally Australians don't tip.

unless its "keep the change" to the pizza guy as a rule

 

[Trunkage]

Why not be fair and pay staff a decent wage and what exactly is the US minimum wage or is it divided by the state?

Because if you giver the food service workers (servers, cooks, dishwashers etc.) a living wage/pay them more, then the restaurant owners would have to raise the prices of the menu items (I'm guessing somewhere between 15-20%) and you would end up having to pay more for your food and service.
Just completely ignore the fact that with societal pressure practically forcing you to tip you are already paying more for your food than was advertised.

Now, I'm not American, but I believe that tips are 10%? So, based on your guess, you'd actually only pay 5% to 10% more.

Also, how much do meals cost? Like $20? So, at most, it would cost an extra $4. And half that you would already pay as a tip anyway? Sounds like a fair deal to me, as long as the pay went to the worker

10%? 15% is the expected minimum and even then alot of people would consider you a cheapskate. Plus it depends on your dining situation. I've never gone to a restaurant alone.

And alot of places split tips rather than just give all tips to whoever earned it.

As for "paying for more than advertized", tipping is essentially paying for the service. You are paying for them dealing with you, refilling drinks, taking and delivering your order, potentially fixing any errors, etc. Most people I know alter the tip based on how they felt the waiter acted (the rules vary from person to person, sometimes for really stupid reasons...my grandparents hated when one waiter said "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" when I said thanks to them. We still give them crap for it)

So, twistedmic proposed that if you paid the staff living wages, menu prices would increase 15-20% as an estimate. That's pretty much all the tip...

So... instead of the ease of just having one price, you have two, one which you have to calculate. And you are making patrons work for their food? Also, the waiter might also be punished for things that might not be under his control - I've had owners say racist things and people just walking out without paying (they were saying it to white people saying certain peoples were lazy and useless. If you think this is out of character for Australia, a shop just put up a sign today banning blacks from their store.) I've been yelled at for not having the food cooked properly.

I also don't understand why I should be paid twice just to do a good job. Whatever I got paid, I'd always try to do a good job. I don't need to be bribed to do so. I've gotten tips still (but not frequently) if some thought I did exceptional service. Tipping just seems to be unfair.

 

[Saelune]

Why not be fair and pay staff a decent wage and what exactly is the US minimum wage or is it divided by the state?

Because if you giver the food service workers (servers, cooks, dishwashers etc.) a living wage/pay them more, then the restaurant owners would have to raise the prices of the menu items (I'm guessing somewhere between 15-20%) and you would end up having to pay more for your food and service.
Just completely ignore the fact that with societal pressure practically forcing you to tip you are already paying more for your food than was advertised.

Now, I'm not American, but I believe that tips are 10%? So, based on your guess, you'd actually only pay 5% to 10% more.

Also, how much do meals cost? Like $20? So, at most, it would cost an extra $4. And half that you would already pay as a tip anyway? Sounds like a fair deal to me, as long as the pay went to the worker

10%? 15% is the expected minimum and even then alot of people would consider you a cheapskate. Plus it depends on your dining situation. I've never gone to a restaurant alone.

And alot of places split tips rather than just give all tips to whoever earned it.

As for "paying for more than advertized", tipping is essentially paying for the service. You are paying for them dealing with you, refilling drinks, taking and delivering your order, potentially fixing any errors, etc. Most people I know alter the tip based on how they felt the waiter acted (the rules vary from person to person, sometimes for really stupid reasons...my grandparents hated when one waiter said "no problem" instead of "you're welcome" when I said thanks to them. We still give them crap for it)

So, twistedmic proposed that if you paid the staff living wages, menu prices would increase 15-20% as an estimate. That's pretty much all the tip...

So... instead of the ease of just having one price, you have two, one which you have to calculate. And you are making patrons work for their food? Also, the waiter might also be punished for things that might not be under his control - I've had owners say racist things and people just walking out without paying (they were saying it to white people saying certain peoples were lazy and useless. If you think this is out of character for Australia, a shop just put up a sign today banning blacks from their store.) I've been yelled at for not having the food cooked properly.

I also don't understand why I should be paid twice just to do a good job. Whatever I got paid, I'd always try to do a good job. I don't need to be bribed to do so. I've gotten tips still (but not frequently) if some thought I did exceptional service. Tipping just seems to be unfair.

Tipping is terrible and needs to go...but we should not punish the people who live off tips to do so. It just seems most people try to screw over the concept but just screw over the people it has already been screwing over.

 

[Baffle]

I always tip the delivery guy, it's the charge for me being lazy. If it's raining I tip them double.

I may or may not tip in a restaurant, it genuinely depends on the service.

When I was in the US I tipped heavily, but your plates are so big I only had to eat four times in seven days.

When I'm in a country with a big wage differential to the UK, I tip pretty much regardless of service.

 

[JamesStone]

One thing that always perplexed me was why we are supposed to tip for pizza delivery. It's a fixed service and the driver really does not add additional value beyond just driving. The FedEx or UPS guy does not expect to be tipped and some of the stuff they deliver can be extremely heavy.

I did pizza delivery for a while many years ago. If you are a regular non-tipper, you'll get your pizza in the last few minutes of the delivery window, by which time it will be cold. I have, technically, fulfilled my side of the bargain.

Ah so tipping serves as a pseudo-polite form of blackmail

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Phasmal]

I tip in restaurants, because it's polite.
I don't think I'd cope in America, you have to tip everywhere it seems. I always struggle to know how much to tip and sometimes I don't have any change and I stress out about it.

Also some places are not allowed to accept tips in the UK. When I was a waitress I wasn't allowed to accept tips.
Food service is awful, I did that job for over two years and I couldn't do it again. I always try and be accommodating to the staff by doing things like stacking the plates together when we're finished and not causing a fuss if there's a wait/they're out of something. People who are rude to waitstaff are literally the worst.

I do wish that people were just paid better and tipping wasn't a thing, but that's just because I get anxiety about when I am or am not supposed to tip so I just deal with it most of the time.

 

[Baffle]

Ah so tipping serves as a pseudo-polite form of blackmail

Thanks for clarifying that.

Well, only for me - I can't speak for everyone. It's almost definitely not what it says in the dictionary.

 

[BaronVH]

How did this thread get so far without a mention of Mr. Pink?