The Turkish are very angry about The Promise

[Catnip1024]

That's my point, yeah the young turks were progressive but they commited genocide nullifying their morality, the same as the nazi party were very good towards animals and commited genocide regardless (which is a good trivia to instantly piss off animal lovers).

Fair enough, my brain just wasn't working so late in the day.

 

[Cap'nPipsqueak]

You're talking about the people that shot women with rubber bullets while they were holding a peaceful rally for greater legal protections against violence and improved working conditions.

I wouldn't be surprised if many Turks attached to the government kick puppies for fun.

Coulda shot 'em with real bullets. Just sayin'.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I'm actually not familiar with this genocide at all but...

Fuck them then. I dont believe in automatically inheriting guilt just because you live in a place or whatever. Such as white people in the US being guilty of slavery cause it happened here before. But if we had pretended it never happened, then I would say we are guilty. (Just as I dont blame modern Germans for the Holocaust either) If they would just own up to it, it would absolve them as a generation. So good on you Turkey by maintaining being awful by being awful.

I'm with Saelune here. You don't inheret the sins of the father, but ya gotta call a spade and spade.

 

[WolfThomas]

The armanian genocide is a sure fire way to piss turks off, makes me wonder how on earth there's a liberal group that calls itself the young turks.

Easy Cenk Uygur (the founder) was an Armenian Genocide denier for years. Calling yourself that name is a lot easier when you pretend the bad stuff didn't happen.

I think now he equivocates and says he doesn't know enough to have an opinion. Which is a pretty lame stance.

 

[FalloutJack]

You know, we don't get a million calls from Romania every time we misrepresent Vlad Tepes. Why the hell do they want to get on us about this? For god's sake, it's not like all the times people bring up Germany in World War II.

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

I do love the more they deny it the more well know it became in the west. I didn't even know about Armenian Genocide until Turk started bitching about it.

The Young Turks were a progressive force in the Ottoman Empire. They made many reforms to westernise Turkey and even played a large role in the founding of the republic. Doesn't make them any less genocidal, but explains why The Young Turks call themselves so.

Hitler also rebuilt the economy of Germany, and created the first modern highway system a full two decades before anyone else. One can make the argument the national socialists where also a progressive force in that regard, yet no one would have the audacity to use the title without knowing what people would think they where talking about.

Okay Devil's Advocates time. I could say the same thing about Roman, Greek, America and pretty much every Empire ever. we glorified what they've done and don't talk about the innocent body that were laid. It's easy from an outsider's perspective to say if a group is evil or not but not so much if you grew up with them as Heroes. not defending their ignorance just saying why it's there. go to an ultra patriotic American and tell him all the fucked-up shit the founding fathers did and see what happens.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hitler also rebuilt the economy of Germany

Yes and no.

As I understand it, the economy he built up was built for was and conquest, and depended on it. Without a war, the economy would have fallen apart again.

With a war, Soviet troops take photos of themselves raising their flag on the Reichstag in 6 years time.

 

[Megalodon]

Hitler also rebuilt the economy of Germany

Yes and no.

As I understand it, the economy he built up was built for was and conquest, and depended on it. Without a war, the economy would have fallen apart again.

With a war, Soviet troops take photos of themselves raising their flag on the Reichstag in 6 years time.

Not really. The later war economy was quite heavily reliant on slave labour, but that wasn't really the case in the 1930s. If anything the Germans suffered from their economy not being built up for war and conquest. Their campaigns, epitomised by the Blitzkrieg doctrine pioneered by the likes of Guderian, were meant to be over extremely quickly. They weren't prepared for the length of war they blundered into. Even then, it took them until 1942/43 (forget which) before they adapted to the reality of Total War and introduced a 'war economy' under Speer. If the economy had be built up for war and conquest, it would have been a working war economy in 1939. This isn't to say that the army wasn't being built for war and conquest, it certainly was, but there was more to the economy than just the army.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Hitler also rebuilt the economy of Germany

Yes and no.

As I understand it, the economy he built up was built for was and conquest, and depended on it. Without a war, the economy would have fallen apart again.

With a war, Soviet troops take photos of themselves raising their flag on the Reichstag in 6 years time.

Not really. The later war economy was quite heavily reliant on slave labour, but that wasn't really the case in the 1930s. If anything the Germans suffered from their economy not being built up for war and conquest. Their campaigns, epitomised by the Blitzkrieg doctrine pioneered by the likes of Guderian, were meant to be over extremely quickly. They weren't prepared for the length of war they blundered into. Even then, it took them until 1942/43 (forget which) before they adapted to the reality of Total War and introduced a 'war economy' under Speer. If the economy had be built up for war and conquest, it would have been a working war economy in 1939. This isn't to say that the army wasn't being built for war and conquest, it certainly was, but there was more to the economy than just the army.

I didn't mean a war economy, as in being devoted to war, I mean that the impending war was part of the reality the economy was built for, and essential for it to function (at least in theory). However, that's not really my field, can't say for sure.

 

[McElroy]

More like a group that kills animals in large numbers calling themselves People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

Eh, well, y'know, captivity is a worse fate than death. Animal rights activists would obviously simply eradicate most animals that are bred to become animal products later. And if one thinks animal production is wrong, this Last Culling of All Cattle would be the ethical thing to do.

OT: I actually want to know why this semantic issue is so important.

 

[Jute88]

Hitler also rebuilt the economy of Germany

Yes and no.

As I understand it, the economy he built up was built for was and conquest, and depended on it. Without a war, the economy would have fallen apart again.

The German economy was already falling apart before a single shot was fired. They were trying to build a formibable military force AND something resembling of a welfare state. Both of these require a lot of money and trying to make both of them happen was sheer madness (assuming you don't have enough resources and wealth to build both of them).