The Universe

[iLikeHippos]

That's just a theory. Remember that fact, every day of every second.

Just like religion is.. To me, at the very least.

Yes, just like gravity is a theory. A theory does not mean a guess. It means....you know what you can figure it out yourself...

Oh, I've experienced gravity. Believe me...
*Looks at his broken kneecaps for failing freerunning*

As for the universe expanding... Have you yourself experienced it? Seen it? Touched it?
It's not familiar to my senses in any way what so ever.

For me, it's just invisibility. Bring on the papers if you must...

 

[savageoblivi0n]

*tries to contain it.....fails miserably*

very simple....i can explain everything.....


"42"

EDIT: or maybe '19' hmm...now i need to go think about this

 

[iLikeHippos]

That's just a theory. Remember that fact, every day of every second.

Just like religion is.. To me, at the very least.

Kind of like 2+2=4 is a theory?

That's a theory proven with proof. Would you like me to present it?

The universe theory, however, is not.
Unless you can pull that answer out of your ass.

Nah the only thing that comes from there is feces.
But the universe theory is suported by evidence.
Religion is a matter of personal believe that has no evidence.

For me, I only believe in things I see. The Universe expanding is not one of them.
However I've seen the simplicity of adding numbers together.
So it is a flawed theory in my case.

As for religion, I have nothing against it. But it isn't real to me unless I've seen it for real.

Not trying to argue with you or anything, but do you believe in microbes? Or atoms?
They aren't usually seen (unless you use tools, but you use tools to see doppler effect as well).

I'm not quite sure where you are going, but I have trouble responding.

I've not seen them, only heard that they are real and that there is research behind it, etc...
It was taught in my school, so I have to believe in them to some degree and accept the fact it is real. (Not implying they're not though)

However it does bring me to a fun thought. So far I've not been taught about this "theory" as I like to call it.
Maybe it does have some flaws, and isn't ready to be presented yet.
But maybe it'll show up when I enter the University.

 

[xdgt]

That's just a theory. Remember that fact, every day of every second.

Just like religion is.. To me, at the very least.

Kind of like 2+2=4 is a theory?

That's a theory proven with proof. Would you like me to present it?

The universe theory, however, is not.
Unless you can pull that answer out of your ass.

Nah the only thing that comes from there is feces.
But the universe theory is suported by evidence.
Religion is a matter of personal believe that has no evidence.

For me, I only believe in things I see. The Universe expanding is not one of them.
However I've seen the simplicity of adding numbers together.
So it is a flawed theory in my case.

As for religion, I have nothing against it. But it isn't real to me unless I've seen it for real.

Not trying to argue with you or anything, but do you believe in microbes? Or atoms?
They aren't usually seen (unless you use tools, but you use tools to see doppler effect as well).

I'm not quite sure where you are going, but I have trouble responding.

I've not seen them, only heard that they are real and that there is research behind it, etc...
It was taught in my school, so I have to believe in them to some degree and accept the fact it is real. (Not implying they're not though)

However it does bring me to a fun thought. So far I've not been taught about this "theory" as I like to call it.
Maybe it does have some flaws, and isn't ready to be presented yet.
But maybe it'll show up when I enter the University.

So happens my mother is a doctor so I've been in her office in my childhood and have seen microbes (also blood cells) with the use of a microscope for myself. Though I never see them with my eyes alone, I can and do see them given the right equipment. Some equipment showed that distant objects in space aren't still but rather move away from us - as such it isn't a crazy idea that the universe is in fact expanding, other tools have also given results that support this theory. Sure we cannot see it with our own two eyes on our level, but from our level sun looks like a small yellow circle in the sky, while it is in fact much bigger than Earth. Bottom line our senses alone can be decieving at times without proper understanding.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

I don't know, yet I guess..... We'll find out eventually. Untill then, lets fix the shit down here before we get all exited.

(This also doesn't help me get to work faster : / )

 

[iLikeHippos]

That's just a theory. Remember that fact, every day of every second.

Just like religion is.. To me, at the very least.

Kind of like 2+2=4 is a theory?

That's a theory proven with proof. Would you like me to present it?

The universe theory, however, is not.
Unless you can pull that answer out of your ass.

Nah the only thing that comes from there is feces.
But the universe theory is suported by evidence.
Religion is a matter of personal believe that has no evidence.

For me, I only believe in things I see. The Universe expanding is not one of them.
However I've seen the simplicity of adding numbers together.
So it is a flawed theory in my case.

As for religion, I have nothing against it. But it isn't real to me unless I've seen it for real.

Not trying to argue with you or anything, but do you believe in microbes? Or atoms?
They aren't usually seen (unless you use tools, but you use tools to see doppler effect as well).

I'm not quite sure where you are going, but I have trouble responding.

I've not seen them, only heard that they are real and that there is research behind it, etc...
It was taught in my school, so I have to believe in them to some degree and accept the fact it is real. (Not implying they're not though)

However it does bring me to a fun thought. So far I've not been taught about this "theory" as I like to call it.
Maybe it does have some flaws, and isn't ready to be presented yet.
But maybe it'll show up when I enter the University.

So happens my mother is a doctor so I've been in her office in my childhood and have seen microbes (also blood cells) with the use of a microscope for myself. Though I never see them with my eyes alone, I can and do see them given the right equipment. Some equipment showed that distant objects in space aren't still but rather move away from us - as such it isn't a crazy idea that the universe is in fact expanding, other tools have also given results that support this theory. Sure we cannot see it with our own two eyes on our level, but from our level sun looks like a small yellow circle in the sky, while it is in fact much bigger than Earth. Bottom line our senses alone can be decieving at times without proper understanding.

Quite true, the equipment we have today can show us extraordinary things.
Such as the Immortal jellyfish from the bottom of our sea using these very equipments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula

Not to be a pain in the ass, but I know of no equipment yet that can zoom in to the edge of the universe; finding out for sure.

Right now we got some pretty persuasive theories... But they aren't 100% completely proven yet of date.
Else we wouldn't have thousands of scientists arguing about it, which gives me even more doubt of it all.

But right now I'm probably just speculating due to being tired.

 

[Druyn]

Simple, the universe isn't infinite.

A longer version:
It's potentially infinite in space but not in energy/mass.
Mass is spining and expanding, not the universe itself.

This guys got it here.

 

[rokkolpo]

because it's infinitly expanding.

finite would mean that it would end.
infinite means it does not.

 

[gigastrike]

The term "universe" does not include empty space that contains no matter. ie 'Space' is infinite, but the universe (compiled of planets, stars, black holes and the like) is expanding.
I could be wrong on that though, its been I while since I studied astrophysics.

That's kinda what I thought. I think I once heard something about the space-time fabric expanding too, though.

 

[xdgt]

That's just a theory. Remember that fact, every day of every second.

Just like religion is.. To me, at the very least.

Kind of like 2+2=4 is a theory?

That's a theory proven with proof. Would you like me to present it?

The universe theory, however, is not.
Unless you can pull that answer out of your ass.

Nah the only thing that comes from there is feces.
But the universe theory is suported by evidence.
Religion is a matter of personal believe that has no evidence.

For me, I only believe in things I see. The Universe expanding is not one of them.
However I've seen the simplicity of adding numbers together.
So it is a flawed theory in my case.

As for religion, I have nothing against it. But it isn't real to me unless I've seen it for real.

Not trying to argue with you or anything, but do you believe in microbes? Or atoms?
They aren't usually seen (unless you use tools, but you use tools to see doppler effect as well).

I'm not quite sure where you are going, but I have trouble responding.

I've not seen them, only heard that they are real and that there is research behind it, etc...
It was taught in my school, so I have to believe in them to some degree and accept the fact it is real. (Not implying they're not though)

However it does bring me to a fun thought. So far I've not been taught about this "theory" as I like to call it.
Maybe it does have some flaws, and isn't ready to be presented yet.
But maybe it'll show up when I enter the University.

So happens my mother is a doctor so I've been in her office in my childhood and have seen microbes (also blood cells) with the use of a microscope for myself. Though I never see them with my eyes alone, I can and do see them given the right equipment. Some equipment showed that distant objects in space aren't still but rather move away from us - as such it isn't a crazy idea that the universe is in fact expanding, other tools have also given results that support this theory. Sure we cannot see it with our own two eyes on our level, but from our level sun looks like a small yellow circle in the sky, while it is in fact much bigger than Earth. Bottom line our senses alone can be decieving at times without proper understanding.

Quite true, the equipment we have today can show us extraordinary things.
Such as the Immortal jellyfish from the bottom of our sea using these very equipments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula

Not to be a pain in the ass, but I know of no equipment yet that can zoom in to the edge of the universe; finding out for sure.

Right now we got some pretty persuasive theories... But they aren't 100% completely proven yet of date.
Else we wouldn't have thousands of scientists arguing about it, which gives me even more doubt of it all.

But right now I'm probably just speculating due to being tired.

Don't quite see how that's related.
Anyway ofcourse you can't zoom to the edge of the universe, what with the light speed and all.
But the objects in relative vicinity (by sosmic scales) of Earth have been observed to move.
So as I said it's not crazy to assume the rest of the objects do to.
Also scientist always argue, it is their job, without arguing they would never reach any conclusions (correct ones at least). So just because they debate of different theories doesn't mean this one is wrong or even improbable. Back to the microbes analogy - you don't ever see all the microbes, you only see samples taken from a source and by studying the microbes on those samples you can learn of the microbes on the source. For instance you can learn why are you sick and how to cure yourself.

 

[Nukey]

It's infinite and expanding becuase it is infinitely expanding.

You see, it's already endless, it's just getting even bigger.

 

[Lemon Of Life]

Best explanation we currently have.

How interesting, thanks for posting this.

OT: As I understand things, space is theoretically infinite, if you were explore it, there would be no end to it, yet Space is not just a massive, never ending sprawl, but a shape, it just so happens that the shape is a very strange one.

 

[Socius]

Just a quick question: How can the universe expand when it's infinite? Is it just that the human mind is too primitive to understand that? Because to me that makes no damn sense.

the answer to this question is simple:
42.
Read the hichikers guide to the galaxy, everything will become clear.

 

[linwolf]

Best explanation we currently have.

Loved this, do you have more like it?

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

Is it just that the human mind is too primitive to understand that? Because to me that makes no damn sense.

you just answered the question and stated my opinion for me

 

[Doug]

Just a quick question: How can the universe expand when it's infinite? Is it just that the human mind is too primitive to understand that? Because to me that makes no damn sense.

Who said the universe was infinite? As far as we know, its just so vast its impossible for us to see it all.

That said, it is possible "reality" is infinite, in which case, the matter within our 'area' of reality is moving away from each other rapidly, creating the illustion of expansion.

 

[Keava]

Basic maths they should teach you in primary school.
For every infinity there is a larger infinity. Assumptions like infinity +1 or infinity * infinity are perfectly correct.

 

[erto101]

*tries to contain it.....fails miserably*

very simple....i can explain everything.....


"42"

EDIT: or maybe '19' hmm...now i need to go think about this

Damn just as i thought no one had ninja'd me

You can make your own cookie ninja

 

[geizr]

As a physics major, some of the comments in this thread make me cringe.

It is unknown whether the universe is infinite. It could be, but then, it may not be. We only know that what we are able to see of it is finite.

What is being called an expansion is a really funky, non-intuitive thing that is happening. What is happening is that the definition of distance, the metric of the universe, is what is changing, such that distances are measured as being longer as time proceeds forward. Basically, if I pick 2 points and periodically measure the distance between those points, I would find the distance between the points to be increasing. Now, here's the mind blowing part: this occurs WITHOUT the points moving at all. The points are stationary, yet, the distance between them is increasing. Observers at these points would measure red-shifts of the points having a relative velocity away from each other; yet, the points themselves are not moving. What this means is that the universe does not necessarily have to expand into anything in order to get the expansion effect that we observe. This is the counter-intuitive part. Our classical notions of volume, distance, and measurement forces us to think that if something is expanding, then it must be expanding into something. But, because of Special and General Relativity, this need not be the case.

As far as I know, we do not know whether the universe is closed but unbounded(like a sphere), or if it is curved open or flat(thus, potentially infinite in both case). This is because we cannot observe either the mass-energy density or the curvature of the universe with sufficient precision and accuracy such to distinguish the different possibilities.

Another mind-blowing thing is that because the speed of light is fixed and finite, when combined with the uniform expansion of spacetime, we find that we are limited in how far we can see into the universe. There is a causal cut-off beyond which we cannot see because to do so requires that light move faster than the speed of light. At the same time, as time continues forward, that same causal cut-off moves further out, allowing us to see further out into the universe. This causal cut-off makes the question of the universe being infinite or finite even more nebulous. For this reason, it has become customary to consider the universe to be only that which we can observe, and reserving the term cosmos for the greater entirety of existence, including that which lies beyond the causal cut-off.

Does that answer any questions, or cause more confusion?

 

[sabbat]

Depending on the school of thaught you follow, the universe is either one or the other. The problem is, we don't know which and there is compelling evidence for both.