The Unsolved Mysteries Of 40K: A Good Old Discussion

[Ultrajoe]

Because this can be potentially so off-topic that your eyes will bleed, i have located it accordingly.

EDIT: Because open topics seem to put off potential posters, i've narrowed this to 40K. It may need to be relocated.

Stories have ends, and ends mean the cessation of information. However, sometimes that means threads of the plot are left untangled and streaming loose in Story-Space. This is almost always a good thing, as we have seen what happens when people rush to close too many sub-plots at once and end up with continuity train-wreck.

And so you move on, and you find another story... But you always wonder...

As well as those lost gems are the things left unknown: Who is G-Man? has the Void dragon on mars awoken to control the Mechanicum? What really happened at the end of Resistance 2? Can Cypher revive the emperor? Does the Heavy have a favorite animal? Will i ever run out of 40K lore to ponder?

This is a thread for the discussion, and i stress discussion, of the mysteries you occasionally encounter. That means we gather evidence, conclude from sources and raise opinions in the knowledge that our peers will not dispute them 'because they are opinion'. You can feel free to raise a new issue, but the trick to make this work is to jump into something you don't know and try to crack the mystery like the lone, plucky wolf that you are.

Personally, i've always wondered what drove the Tyranids to the 40K galaxy, when something capable of creating a closed biosystem can settle wherever it pleases. One suggestion is that the Tyranids are running from something, and that thing is by default one badass mofo. If you don't find this your cup of tea, perhaps you might be curious to discuss what the Hive Mind is, rogue C'Tan? Chaos god of Life/Instinct? Are the Tyranids the last great Bio-Weapon against the Necrons?

I'll be here for another hour or so, and would love to help you crack The Unsolved Mysteries. It can be done!

 

[Ultrajoe]

Why certainly Ultrajoe, I would love to discuss some 40K lore with you.

Have you considered that the Tyranids aren't from outside the galaxy at all? But originated here (Possibly as the Bio-weapon you stated) and then migrated outwards? That could explain them angering something that sent them running back here, after all, and encourages any C'Tan/Chaos god theories (Do they span the universe or just the galaxy?).

We know they have been seen long ago, as the Tyranid codexes clearly state (and hint that they might be the cause of death-worlds), could that indicate a 'migration theory' for them, that they might know to return to galaxies periodically to feed on the recurrent life?

Also, did you know that you are marvelously attractive?

 

[Dys]

Well ultrajoe, you see, it is the black library.
Everything. EVERYTHING
The necrons are a particularly badly explained/executed race, and IMO they were much cooler as an evil human created AI than as evil machines.
As for the nids my favorite is the running away theory, and in all seriousness any reasonable explanation for what they are running from will probably involve the black library or something equally powerful.

 

[Ultrajoe]

Well ultrajoe, you see, it is the black library.
Everything. EVERYTHING

The accumulated lore, yes, but it lacks appropriate conclusions from such lore. It maintains 'Canon Mysteries' and merely serves as a repository for the data accumulated by the series. We may know that Russ disappeared into the Eye of Terror, resurfacing for a summer campaign, but where did he go afterwards? We know that Tigerius claims he can commune with the emperor, but could he be lying as an agent of chaos?

We know every part of the human body, but still it has mysteries that astound us. The presence of science does not do away with scientists.

We can still wonder. But thank you for your valued contribution.

 

[PurpleRain]

Ahhh yes. Some good ol' fun nerdy lore to ponder on. I wonder if any of this stuff will ever be explained by Games Workshop. It's driving some people mad.

I'd like to know who the Old One's were, ie: what they looked like and how powerful they really are. I mean, they were able to summon all these races into existance, I wonder if one could kill a C'Tan? Plus when that Void Dragon on Mars wakes up, can the Empire stop it? It'd be a great battle, but it would wake up right next to the Emperor meaning right next to every gun man can muster and (apparently) the Emperors amazing psycic ablities.

 

[The Blue Mongoose]

Didn't the original lore for the Tyranids feature Genestealer cults... people who worshipped something and got turned into Genestealers? Or something? I'm not that up on my Tyranids...

I do however have a problem with some of the Space Marine lore...

Take for example my beloved Black Templars. There was a time when they were a lone chapter, lead by the Emperor's Champion, a God amongst Space Marines who fought Daemons mano a mano (or is that mano a diablo?). They were fragmented and small, but did not suffer from the genetic deterioration of the other chapters and stuck very close to the teachings of the Imperial Cult, ie. no Psychers (they went into a frenzy when they saw one).

Now they are a large chapter, thought to be the largest, broken into several mini-chapters ("Crusades"), EACH ONE lead by an Emperor's Champion! There are thought to be at least 13 of these groups! HOLY SHIT! If they all went to the Eye of Terror with Imperial Guard support and maybe some other chapters (some Grey Knights and maybe other Ordo Malleus...) Chaos would be FUCKED!

This discrepancy causes me rather a bit of irritation. (I don't need to mention what this would make of the Land Raider Crusader do I?)

ok... I think I've ranted enough... I can't begin to unravel this mess...

Love the topic by the way!

 

[opiwankenobi]

I have not read the Codex Dark Angels, but

Can Cypher revive the emperor?

Does the codex state anything about cyphers motives?

 

[Brett Alex]

Weren't the Tyranid Hive Fleets avoiding Necron tomb worlds, like, by massive distances where possible? Whats up with that?

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Can love bloom on the battlefield? Will Macha ever get laid? Is Eldrad a total dick? Is Kharn really such a great guy? All these important questions will be answered in this thread!

PS, I would have answere dabout 40 minutes ago, but my cock biting, mother fucking, piece of shit internet connection died.

EDIT: Agree totally with Dys on the necron thing.

 

[johnman]

I have not read the Codex Dark Angels, but

Can Cypher revive the emperor?

Does the codex state anything about cyphers motives?

I never got Cypher, whose side is he on?
I ahvent followed warhammer for a good few years, so all this about tyranids and Necrons avioding each other like the plague is new to me, But i suppose it makes sense, you cant eat a metal civiliastion.

Didn't the original lore for the Tyranids feature Genestealer cults... people who worshipped something and got turned into Genestealers? Or something? I'm not that up on my Tyranids...

There were Hybrid Genestellars in an old edition, they were part human part genestealer and still used guns and stuff. The Tryranid inflitrators inplanted them with the genetic code required for this to happen, so they are pretty much slaves.

 

[Ultrajoe]

I'd like to know who the Old One's were, ie: what they looked like and how powerful they really are. I mean, they were able to summon all these races into existance, I wonder if one could kill a C'Tan? Plus when that Void Dragon on Mars wakes up, can the Empire stop it? It'd be a great battle, but it would wake up right next to the Emperor meaning right next to every gun man can muster and (apparently) the Emperors amazing psycic ablities.

Well the VD was supposedly locked away by the emperor, and a guardian tasked every 10,000 years to guard it. A special book was needed to perform this process. 10,000 years ago, someone stole this book, as explained by the book 'Mechanicum' from the horus heresy series. My bet is on Tzeench or the Deceiver pulling the switch on that one.

Weren't the Tyranid Hive Fleets avoiding Necron tomb worlds, like, by massive distances where possible? Whats up with that?

My bet? They can feel the necrons, and know that there's no point biting metal. But there is a lesser stated theory that the Necrons go after Nids like no other species. Tyranids are the ultimate expression of life, and would you want to go near a race of bitchin life-reapers if you were everything they swore to destroy? Or could a Hive-mind C'Tan be using the Tyranids as another form of Necron to wipe life from the map completely? See, my theories aren't complete bunk!

Didn't the original lore for the Tyranids feature Genestealer cults... people who worshipped something and got turned into Genestealers? Or something? I'm not that up on my Tyranids...

Tyranids go Alien style on imperial civilians, and those hybrids then subvert and weaken planet through terrorism and sabotage before the main fleet arrives. A prime example of Face Full Of Alien Wing Wong

Now they are a large chapter, thought to be the largest, broken into several mini-chapters ("Crusades"), EACH ONE lead by an Emperor's Champion! There are thought to be at least 13 of these groups! HOLY SHIT! If they all went to the Eye of Terror with Imperial Guard support and maybe some other chapters (some Grey Knights and maybe other Ordo Malleus...) Chaos would be FUCKED!

The black templars think the exact same thing. They see the force restrictions placed on space marines as a stupid rule that is damning the imperium. They now approach legion-size and give the finger to the regents of terror. Chaos needs to die, in their opinion, and if that means breaking the chapter size limit by 20,000, then so be it.

Does the codex state anything about cyphers motives?

I honestly don't know, does anyone here have that codex and could fill us in?

 

[opiwankenobi]

According to the lexicanum cypher "just" wants to reforge the lions blade and present it to the emperor, and by doing so, receive redemption for the fallen angels.

The ones who try to revive the emperor are the illuminati, if i remember correlcty, by gathering the emperors "mortal" children, the sensei. I ve to recheck that starchild theory in time.

I spent way too much time with 40k lore -.-

 

[Fire Daemon]

In my opinion the Tyranids are not creatures designed to be the last great Bio-weapon against the Necrons but rather the other way around. I've always thought of the Tyranids as a race sprawling across the universe and devouring any galaxies they come across. They may leave a galaxy and then return to it some time later when life forms have had a chance to come back but generally they just eat everything they can. How much of the universe they have devoured is unknown but I like to assume that it's a lot of it and if they have devoured a lot of the Universe you would expect them to have been alive for a very long time. The only other race that has been 'alive' for possibly the same time is the Necrons. The Necrons are also metallic so therefore the Tyranids cannot eat them in the same way they eat a space marine. Isn't it also an interesting coincidence that the Necrons inhabit a galaxy that has yet to have been destroyed by the Tyranids but both turned up at roughly the same time? So we have two species that are both very old, one is designed with a slight advantage over the other and that galaxy one of them inhabits has not yet been destroyed by something that destroys everything? I think that the Necrons were created as a counter measure to the Tyrandis, as the saviors of the galaxy, against the great destroyers.

How they do this, I don't really know. Maybe by killing all life in the Galaxy the Necrons stop the Tyranids from even turning up?

I only know the basics of 40k law so I could be very wrong here. Makes sense to me though.

 

[Brett Alex]

Well the VD was supposedly locked away by the emperor, and a guardian tasked every 10,000 years to guard it. A special book was needed to perform this process. 10,000 years ago, someone stole this book, as explained by the book 'Mechanicum' from the horus heresy series. My bet is on Tzeench or the Deceiver pulling the switch on that one.

Tzench just being Tzench? Or a C'Tan link with Chaos? Who's more evil out of those two by the way?

Weren't the Tyranid Hive Fleets avoiding Necron tomb worlds, like, by massive distances where possible? Whats up with that?

My bet? They can feel the necrons, and know that there's no point biting metal. But there is a lesser stated theory that the Necrons go after Nids like no other species. Tyranids are the ultimate expression of life, and would you want to go near a race of bitchin life-reapers if you were everything they swore to destroy? Or could a Hive-mind C'Tan be using the Tyranids as another form of Necron to wipe life from the map completely? See, my theories aren't complete bunk!

I'm more for the Necrons being arch Nid enemies. Although, if they are another form of reaper, which C'Tan is controlling them? And how many are left anyway? (C'Tan I mean)

EDIT:
And who/where have the "enslavers" gone? The C'Tan anti-psyker things that finally managed to royally fuck up the Old Ones. What happened to them after that?

 

[opiwankenobi]

My bet? They can feel the necrons, and know that there's no point biting metal. But there is a lesser stated theory that the Necrons go after Nids like no other species. Tyranids are the ultimate expression of life, and would you want to go near a race of bitchin life-reapers if you were everything they swore to destroy? Or could a Hive-mind C'Tan be using the Tyranids as another form of Necron to wipe life from the map completely? See, my theories aren't complete bunk!

The 'nids have a great affliction to the warp, and the necros hate everything that has to do with it. So its natural for those two to be arch enemies. The C'tan tried to destroy the Blackstone Fortresses by every possibility and considering the Hive minds capabilities in mastering the warp, the 'nids could be a real threat to the necrons. I think that is why the necrons would try to kill every hive fleet in reach, so the 'nids are avoiding the tomb worlds like Ciaphas Cain any actuall fighting

At least that is my theory.

EDIT:

I never got Cypher, whose side is he on?

I think cypher is primarily on his own side. Or, on the side of the fallen angels, who seek redemption. If he manages to recreate the lions blade, and the emperor would forgive the fallen angels their deeds, the dark angels would be forced to stop hunting their former brothers.

 

[Ultrajoe]

How they do this, I don't really know. Maybe by killing all life in the Galaxy the Necrons stop the Tyranids from even turning up?

I'm only know the basics of 40k law so I could be very wrong here. Makes sense to me though.

Your logic is in fact flawless, and were it not for the Canon this would be an awesome hypothesis. The only problem is that the origins of the necron are stamped in stone, mindless thralls to star-gods who enslaved them and feed on souls. Their guns take you apart atom by atom and steal your soul, evil to the core.

The Eldar and the Ork (Originally Krork) were created to fight the Necrons by the Old Ones, and hence why the Tyranids are considered to be possibly the final, desperate play by said Old Ones. The story is long and links to a million others, but the gist is that the Necrons we know of, but not the Nids. Besides, one C'Tan was so purely terrifying that every living thing in the galaxy has a racial memory of him as pure death.

He is the Goddamned Grim Reaper. Literally. I can't see him as the defender of the Galaxy.

Thus is the 40K universe, layer upon layer of mystery. If anyone wants to bring up the role of the Tzeench/Deceiever/ Eldar laughing god trio at this point, be my guest. I suppsoe you could bring in the Emperor as the 4th physical manifestation of you wished, but that's yet another story.

 

[Cheesebob]

I agree Fire Daemon, that does make a lot of sense...

I've never been much of a 40k lore person, I'm more of a Wahammer fantasy type person

But I have to say, I think it will all boil down to a huuuuuge battle between Chaos, Orks, Tyranids and Necrons in the end.

Everything else in the galaxy is crumbling, dieing or too weedy (The Imperium, Eldar and Tau respectivaly)

 

[Ultrajoe]

[ Tzench just being Tzench? Or a C'Tan link with Chaos? Who's more evil out of those two by the way?

EDIT: And who/where have the "enslavers" gone? The C'Tan anti-psyker things that finally managed to royally fuck up the Old Ones. What happened to them after that?

Tzeench wants to fuck with the emperor, and the Deciever is basically Tzeench in the physical realm. See my previous post (this may be a double) for the interesting correlations of the race-gods. Either one would love to loose the VD, and it seems he is due to rise any day now. Fun times indeed, in the age of ending.

The Necrons knew they would need anti-psyker weapons in the future, so they planted the Pariah gene in a certain ape-like species on a backwater planet... Yes, humans are farmed for such anti-warp beings, and used to make the fearsome pariah heavy troops. It's better than if the inquisition find you, really, because then you become a Culexus assassin and do the same job without the immortality.

The 'nids have great affliction to the warp, and the necros hate everything that has to do with it. So its natural for those two to be arch enemies. The C'tan tried to destroy the Blackstone Fortresses by every possibility and considering the Hive minds capabilities in mastering the warp, the 'nids could be a real threat to the necrons. I think that is way the necrons would try to kill every hive fleet in reach, so the 'nids are avoiding the tomb worlds like Ciaphas Cain any actuall fighting

It's a damn good one. The Hive Mind can give the finger to the chaos gods, and the warp is silent in it's presence, hence the idea that it may be a chaos god of life/instinct. The fact that it is the warp made flesh may be exactly why the Necrons fight them with such ferocity. Kudos on that one, it's going in my nerd box.

Well guys, i need to sleep, so i trust you can save me some mysteries for when i return tomorrow. Have fun.

 

[iain62a]

What happened to the two lost primarchs?

EDIT: I was beaten to the post there