The Unsolved Mysteries Of 40K: A Good Old Discussion

[iain62a]

Isn't there a theory that the 'Nids have been kicked out of their galaxy by the two lost primarchs and their legions. A bit unbelievable but would be awsome if true.

Awesome idea, but why would they have covered eveything up if that was what happened?

 

[BladesofReason]

I (as a warhammer 40k fluff newb) got some questions, not really myths but maybe you have answers.

1) Chaos Space Marines. They have been around for 10.000 years now. I guess the cannot die from old age but 10.000 years of fighting must have taken some toll in their numbers and their equipment. Shouldn't the traitor legions run out of soldiers or equipment like power armour and fancy bolters?(well they still got lots of corrupted cultists and daemons then)
Are the most powerful chaos space marines bound to the warp to be reborn everytime they die? Do they have new Home Worlds on Daemon Worlds where they breed new initiates from the corrupted population? Or is there a constant stream of reinforcements from newly corrupteed space marines?

The Chaos Space Marines live primarily in the Eye of Terror when not crusading into the rest of the universe (notable exceptions include the Red Corsairs and the Word Bearers who mainly inhabit the Maestrom; another massive warpstorm). Since the Eye of Terror is a bleeding hole in space which the warp pours through time flows differently there, as it does in the warp proper. 5,000 years to us may be only a dozen to them so it is true that many of the original Chaos Marines still exist to wage war on the Imperium. Couple this with the idea that Chaos can sustain your life and it's easy to see how they can still live after so long.

The answers to your other questions would be 1, Essentially yes, those would be the Daemon Princes, who as daemons could be reborn after they die. 2, that wouldn't surprise me, the Red Corsair Chaos Space Marines have a habit of corrupting other Space Marines on an individual level and it is with alarming regularity that planets can fall out of favor with the Cult of the Emperor. 3, It's not quite a constant stream but every once in a while a chapter will fall to Chaos (see the Astral Claws/Red Corsairs)

Someone also mentioned that the Eldar do not go into the Eye of Terror for the fear that it would break their minds to do so. This isn't true, they need to go into the Eye every so often because the material used to forge Eldar Soulstones is only found on the Crone Worlds, or original Eldar homeworlds which are located in the center of the Eye.

 

[ward.]

I (as a warhammer 40k fluff newb) got some questions, not really myths but maybe you have answers.

1) Chaos Space Marines. They have been around for 10.000 years now. I guess the cannot die from old age but 10.000 years of fighting must have taken some toll in their numbers and their equipment. Shouldn't the traitor legions run out of soldiers or equipment like power armour and fancy bolters?(well they still got lots of corrupted cultists and daemons then)
Are the most powerful chaos space marines bound to the warp to be reborn every time they die? Do they have new Home Worlds on Daemon Worlds where they breed new initiates from the corrupted population? Or is there a constant stream of reinforcements from newly corrupted space marines?

It's a mixture of all of them, with new gene seed either being stolen or bought from fabius bile and his acolytes.

That's pretty much what I've said. The reason Chaos was left out was because there was no need to point out the obvious.

Yeah I forgot to include the part on chaos eldar the first time around, all creatures can enter the eye of terror though.

 

[irishdelinquent]

I (as a warhammer 40k fluff newb) got some questions, not really myths but maybe you have answers.

1) Chaos Space Marines. They have been around for 10.000 years now. I guess the cannot die from old age but 10.000 years of fighting must have taken some toll in their numbers and their equipment. Shouldn't the traitor legions run out of soldiers or equipment like power armour and fancy bolters?(well they still got lots of corrupted cultists and daemons then)
Are the most powerful chaos space marines bound to the warp to be reborn everytime they die? Do they have new Home Worlds on Daemon Worlds where they breed new initiates from the corrupted population? Or is there a constant stream of reinforcements from newly corrupteed space marines?

Time moves much slower and more erraticly in the Eye, so those of the original Traitor Legions have only survived maybe hundreds of years by their reckoning. Also, those who serve their patron God would inevitably be blessed by eternal life, increased strength, etc. The Thousand Sons are essentially dead anyways, but are animated through sorcery. The Plague Marines of Nurgle are essentially walking corpses as well, so age wouldn't affect them much.

As for reinforcements, there are the renegades. Space Marines will occasionally abandon their oaths to the Emperor and journey to the Eye to seek power. Sometimes only a single marine will turn, other times entire battle companies will. For supplies, there are said to be great Daemonic forge worlds, churning out armaments and ammunition. As for the most powerful Chaos Space Marines, they can be reborn in the Warp should they die if they have become daemonic.

For me, one idea I have had is regarding the Tau Empire. It seems rather odd that a race that was essentially in the "Ooooh fire" stage of evolution suddenly becomes technologically advanced. I sense meddling. I believe that the Old Ones groomed the Tau to stop...dundunduh! the Necrons. The Tau seek to unite all living creatures under the principles of the "greater good". What I read this as is that they are gathering all creatures together to form an army of the living to fight the inevitable rise of the Necrons.

 

[MCGT]

Isn't there a theory that the 'Nids have been kicked out of their galaxy by the two lost primarchs and their legions. A bit unbelievable but would be awsome if true.

Awesome idea, but why would they have covered eveything up if that was what happened?

Umm magic? Don't know but there loads of explanation GW could use if they wanted to follow that line of fluff, maybe they got lost in the warp and ended up there but are thought dead by the Imperium.

For me, one idea I have had is regarding the Tau Empire. It seems rather odd that a race that was essentially in the "Ooooh fire" stage of evolution suddenly becomes technologically advanced. I sense meddling. I believe that the Old Ones groomed the Tau to stop...dundunduh! the Necrons. The Tau seek to unite all living creatures under the principles of the "greater good". What I read this as is that they are gathering all creatures together to form an army of the living to fight the inevitable rise of the Necrons.

There's a background book called Xenology and I think it's hinted in there that the Tau were created by the Eldar for some unknown reason.

 

[Spacewolf]

The Two primarchs have no real fluff about them except in i think it is the lightning tower book (they where creatred so people could make up stories for there own chapters)
The C'tan cannot be in charge of the nids as the nids are controled though the warp and the C'tan carnt touch the Warp.
The Tyranids and Necs avoid each other because Necs live on death worlds and have no biomass (nothing for the nids to eat) and the Nids dont taste nice to the C'tan (the whole point of the necs its to feed the C'tan.
Reinforcemnts for the Chaos marines come when they also raid planets and take there people sometimes they become Chaos marines, the Iron Warroirs have a particualy nasty way of doing this.
the World eaters and i think the empours children have been reduced to warbands.

The Lastest fluff puts the Imperium in the time of ending as the Golden Throne is malfuncitoning and unless they find an STC or some similary powerfull artifact from the Dark Age of Tech they will be destroyed.

 

[stickadtroja]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil? ARE they evil or just misunderstood?
i mean the Necrons hate all life and want to stop it but thats only an evil motive if you assume living = good. the Chaos on the other hand doesn't seem to have any motive at all. they just pure evil. which doesn't makes sense.
does GW anywhere explains the purpuse, motives and goals for the Chaos except stating that they are the ultimate evil?

 

[Spudgun Man]

If you could link the Warhammer fantasy and 40K universes with bizzaro wurld logic, the Orks/Orcs could simply span the whole system anyway and have arrived on earth via the spores theory that is stated in the Orks Codex. Therefore the Orks/Orcs could have been created by the Old ones for a bit of a laugh that went wrong.

For me, one idea I have had is regarding the Tau Empire. It seems rather odd that a race that was essentially in the "Ooooh fire" stage of evolution suddenly becomes technologically advanced. I sense meddling. I believe that the Old Ones groomed the Tau to stop...dundunduh! the Necrons. The Tau seek to unite all living creatures under the principles of the "greater good". What I read this as is that they are gathering all creatures together to form an army of the living to fight the inevitable rise of the Necrons.

Good idea but the whole Tau 'Greater Good' thing is a bit of a pure socioty.
Anyone who refuses to join is wiped away and if the force that refused is defeated and intergrated it is usually removed in a genocidal fashion.
The Kroot and Vespid may only be allowed to hang with the Tau as they have a use, if a human force was assimilated then they would probably be remove as impure. ( in other words have no use)

 

[Neosage]

If you could link the Warhammer fantasy and 40K universes with bizzaro wurld logic, the Orks/Orcs could simply span the whole system anyway and have arrived on earth via the spores theory that is stated in the Orks Codex. Therefore the Orks/Orcs could have been created by the Old ones for a bit of a laugh that went wrong.

Warhammer Greenskins breed sexually for now.

Excluding squigs..I think?

Edit: Squigs aren't greenskins, only Gnoblars, Snotlings, Orcs and Goblins are.

 

[Echo42]

ok i know this is off topic, but this got me wonderings, where did the borg from Star Trek come from?

 

[Spacelord]

This thread makes me nerdgasm.

 

[Spudgun Man]

If you could link the Warhammer fantasy and 40K universes with bizzaro wurld logic, the Orks/Orcs could simply span the whole system anyway and have arrived on earth via the spores theory that is stated in the Orks Codex. Therefore the Orks/Orcs could have been created by the Old ones for a bit of a laugh that went wrong.

Warhammer Greenskins breed sexually for now.

Excluding squigs..I think?

Not completley up on my fantasy lore but thanks for filling me in on that gem of information, now I feel a bit sick.
Reconsidering my theory maybe a system of sporing was developed through evolution but didn't become fully used before the Orcs were wiped out from earth, spores may have survived but not have germenated until a much later date when mankind had the ability to travel through space (about 40000 years later)and spores may have been carried away by accident on ships. Conditions may have been better for the spores on other planets in order for them to grow and so they started to do so, the characteristic of sporing then became common and so the new breed of Orks was born.
I think I could explain the name change as well, the Empire write down the name Orc on a peice of parchment and put it away for safe keeping. Over the 40000 years the name is written and then typed on to diffrent bits of paper, computer programming ect. There is a spelling mistake along the way and nobody notices. Mankind encounters this race of green skinned humanoids and refer to a common bestiary and find that the creatures were called 'Orks' in ye olde times, oblivious to the error. And viola two mysteries solved in one stroke.

Sorry for long post.

 

[Neosage]

If you could link the Warhammer fantasy and 40K universes with bizzaro wurld logic, the Orks/Orcs could simply span the whole system anyway and have arrived on earth via the spores theory that is stated in the Orks Codex. Therefore the Orks/Orcs could have been created by the Old ones for a bit of a laugh that went wrong.

Warhammer Greenskins breed sexually for now.

Excluding squigs..I think?

Not completley up on my fantasy lore but thanks for filling me in on that gem of information, now I feel a bit sick.
Reconsidering my theory maybe a system of sporing was developed through evolution but didn't become fully used before the Orcs were wiped out from earth, spores may have survived but not have germenated until a much later date when mankind had the ability to travel through space. (about 40000 years later) Conditions may have been better for the spores to grow and so they started to do so, the characteristic of sporing then became common and so the new breed of Orks was born.
I think I could explain the name change as well, the Empire write down the name Orc on a peice of parchment and put it away for safe keeping. Over the 40000 years the name is written and then typed on to diffrent bits of paper, computer programming ect. There is a spelling mistake along the way and nobody notices. Mankind encounters this race of green skinned humanoids and reffer to a common Bestiary and find that the creatures were called 'Orks' in ye olde times. And viola two mysteries solved in one stroke.

Sorry for long post.

Heh maybe, but did you know the two universes used to be linked in older editions, they took this out though.

 

[ward.]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil?

Because they're the embodiment of the worst aspects of human/ sentient races brought to extremes.

They're not actually evil, no warhammer race is hard and fast evil, perhaps minus the skaven.

Warhammer Greenskins breed sexually for now.

Excluding squigs..I think?

6th edition rule book says spores.

For me, one idea I have had is regarding the Tau Empire. It seems rather odd that a race that was essentially in the "Ooooh fire" stage of evolution suddenly becomes technologically advanced. I sense meddling. I believe that the Old Ones groomed the Tau to stop...dundunduh! the Necrons. The Tau seek to unite all living creatures under the principles of the "greater good". What I read this as is that they are gathering all creatures together to form an army of the living to fight the inevitable rise of the Necrons.

Xenology says the eldar did it, to create a race resistant to chaos (and most likely capable of waging war in a necron/ Nid dominated area).

if a human force was assimilated then they would probably be remove as impure. ( in other words have no use)

Humans are generally accepted into the greater good.

 

[Spudgun Man]

if a human force was assimilated then they would probably be remove as impure. ( in other words have no use)

Humans are generally accepted into the greater good.

And could be removed on the quiet, there is a very slim chance that contact between asimmilated planets and the Imperium would be accepted and therefore the imperium of man would be none the wiser. Yes I know that Tau and Mankind have been known to work together on rare occasions but as was written by a famous dead bloke. 'Appear like the innocent flower, but be the deadly snake beneath it'

 

[The Medic Who Ubered The World]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil? ARE they evil or just misunderstood?
i mean the Necrons hate all life and want to stop it but thats only an evil motive if you assume living = good. the Chaos on the other hand doesn't seem to have any motive at all. they just pure evil. which doesn't makes sense.
does GW anywhere explains the purpuse, motives and goals for the Chaos except stating that they are the ultimate evil?

this really interested me too so i read a bit about it a while ago(i havent read too much about the fluff so take this with a grain of salt

I think i read that the warp (and the chaos gods as a consequence) are strongly influenced by the emotions of sentient creatures(not orks and tau). Once when there was no or almost no higher evolved life the warp was calm. But as civilisations grew and populations rose their imprint on the warp increased as well. What menas: emotions(good or bad) fuel the beings of the warp. The more emotions of a certain kind amass in the materium the more "fuel" the beings of the warp connected to it get and the more powerful they become.
The eldar(as psychers with a strong warp presence) started their great fall to decadence and polluted the warp with hatred, sadism and insanity until they created a new god connected to the crazy marquis-de-sade-lifestyle they had led (most of them died and the rest lives an incredibly disciplined live to minimise their impact on the warp...and not to get their souls eaten by said god).
Humans leave a way smaller imprint on the warp but there's trillions of them, living in a totalitarian system full of religious fanatics with suffering, greed and war all around them. OM NOM NOM for chaos.

According to the starting thesis, when humans would try to live lives of discipline and peace controlling their emotions the would no longer fuel the malign energies of the warp. Maybe the warp would even calm a bit, there were less daemons and the 'evil' chaos gods would loose their power. the 4 greater powers could the gods of hope, honour, love and permanence once again.
Well but that is quite impossible I think. the imperium cannot change itself to such extent. It needs to keep that form to survie, what would mean (oh the irony!) the longer it holds out aginst chaos and the more desperatly it fights for survival the more powerful the negative sides of the warp become.

I think the Necron have a simliar approach to this.
Chaos(the polluted immaterium)owered by the emotion of (sentient) life
plan of action:
1) kill all sentient life
2)kill flowers, moss and bacteria, just to be sure
3)the warp is calm again
4)profit!

And thanks for the fast answers to my last post!

 

[Neosage]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil?

Because they're the embodiment of the worst aspects of human/ sentient races brought to extremes.

They're not actually evil, no warhammer race is hard and fast evil, perhaps minus the skaven.

Warhammer Greenskins breed sexually for now.

Excluding squigs..I think?

6th edition rule book says spores.

Actually the Druchii are noted as being overall probably the most evil race, and it doesn't say that in sixth edition.

Edit: I am talking about Warhammer Fantasy and I apologize for being off-topic.

 

[xitel]

I'd like to know who the Old One's were, ie: what they looked like and how powerful they really are. I mean, they were able to summon all these races into existance, I wonder if one could kill a C'Tan?

Well, I don't read much of the lore, but if I remember correctly the one time an Eldar War God destroyed the Nightbringer's necrodermis body, it shattered and corrupted the War God, while the Nightbringer simply went into another Necrodermis body. So probably the only way to kill them would be to get rid of their food source, which is pure energy.

As for the Tyrannids, they could be running from the Outsider, the C'Tan that went mad after devouring a bunch and left the universe. He's theoretically powerful enough to make the Tyrannids fear him, or even could be the Hive Mind itself.

 

[ward.]

if a human force was assimilated then they would probably be remove as impure. ( in other words have no use)

Humans are generally accepted into the greater good.

And could be removed on the quiet, there is a very slim chance that contact between asimmilated planets and the Imperium would be accepted and therefore the imperium of man would be none the wiser. Yes I know that Tau and Mankind have been known to work together on rare occasions but as was written by a famous dead bloke. 'Appear like the innocent flower, but be the deadly snake beneath it'

You'd be surprised, right now hive nobles trade with tau for combat suits, fringe words trade for technology and humans are recruited into tau society.

 

[Spacewolf]

The Gods all have positive parts
Khorne: Honour in battle a pride in martial prowess
Slaanesh: The Wish for perfection
Tzeentch: the Hope for change
Nurgle: becoming stronger though adversity

IG captured by the Tau Empire someimtes they go over to the tau side and are called Gue'vesa they are given tau weaponry and work in there armies. Planets taken over by the Tau usually just have a new governtment installed.