The Victims of Homosexuality

[Doclector]

It's sad that you HAD to say that. It should just be common knowledge.

Sadly, it'll never end. There is no limit to humanity's hatred of it's own minorities. Part of me wonders whether this is evolution in action; there is nothing left to kill off evolutionary dead ends, so humanity has started doing it itself. That point is ridiculous though, this kind of BS has been going on far longer than that, and besides, there is no logical reason why gay people (or people of different races, beliefs, and every other discriminated-against minority) would be such a "dead end". Sure, gay people would not reproduce themselves, but there are far more roles to play in any society than mere reproduction, especially an "advanced" society such as humans. I think, with over seven billion people on a planet struggling to cope, we've done quite enough reproduction, don't you?

I guess that's just me trying to fathom the actions of a species I'll never truly understand. No one wants to believe there is no reason for bad things to happen, they want to believe that in some way, it's either all part of a grand plan or simply a natural order. Me, for example, I have aspergers syndrome, which wasn't a huge problem...until people noticed my then few eccentricities, and then the bullying started. Such ridicule only bought me further away from human norm, until humanity became alien to me. After that, I tried for years to think of why, utilising everything from the pyschology of modern british culture to evolution to try and find out why such things happened, but I guess I was just hiding from the truth; there is no reason. There will always be an unfortunately large portion of society determined to destroy any minority.

I've gone off on something of a tangent, but basically, don't waste your time trying to fathom people's hatred for a minority. The minority in question is never the one who should be doing the thinking.

 

[GenericAmerican]

I read through the entire OP, and while I agree; there is way to much hate in the words which isn't the way to win arguments.

Off topic, about bullied kids who commit suicide, I'm most likely going to take major flak for this. . .but fuck them, people today need to toughen up and face the hate and adversity. Life doesn't get any better, and I've met people who were sheltered from the hate and bullying of public schools and guess what? They don't' function well in the real world.

But it's the opposite for those that took the hardships and the bullying. I did, I'm not mentally unstable, about to kill myself, go on a murderous rampage or get strung out on meth...give us more credit for christ's sake, stop trying to shelter kids from everything. I've seen the ones who have been, it's disgusting. If they take the easy way out, well it's a tragedy, but life is life people.

Not to mention the means to stop bullying is going out of control in some places. My cousin was suspended for a week for Avoiding a fight at school. Apparently telling an aggressive gang banger to fuck off is grounds for suspension.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I'm one of those rare "real bi-sexuals" Who actually thinks that love doesn't have a gender.

Yet for some reason nobody has ever insulted me for being bi-sexual because they ask if I like women too, I say duh and they are instantly cool with it.

Unsure why. However I've dated men and women, I really have no preference as long as I'm attracted to you.

You would probably be classed as a "pansexual" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansexuality] then, although I technically don't believe in labels like that because sexuality is fluid and not black-and-white. Personally, I'm what you'd class as "heterosexual" and have only ever fancied women, although I've had numerous fantasies involving only men or focusing primarily on them in certain scenarios.

Even the homophobic bullies themselves may not be entirely "heterosexual", if at all, even if they don't want to admit it. So you've got to feel sorry for them, since they're insecure about their sexuality and project that rage onto others.

you had a point. And then you did the last paragraph. Doing in reverse which you would not have done unto others. By the token that they aren't allowed to be straight. What bullshit is that.

And certainly don't pity them as your some kind of better person, your just a person same as everyone else.

Preaching people should be whatever they want and then in turn judging people for being heterosexual pretty much going along the lines of "yeah believe whatever you want, but if you don't believe the same as me your an idiot". Its a massive double standard for anyone trying to trumpet tolerance.

What are you on about? I'm saying that a lot of those homophobic bullies might not be entirely "heterosexual", so you have to feel sorry for them because they're insecure about their sexuality and then lash out at others. I'm not accusing them or anything of being homosexual, or attacking their sexuality. But it's known that a lot of bullies, not even homophobic ones, attack others' differences because they're different themselves, whether in the same way as their victim or another, and so they project that rage onto another.

Maybe it was a poor choice of words, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood or I offended anyone. Or maybe you're taking my words out of context or whatever. I wasn't judging anyone for being heterosexual. But why shouldn't I pity them if they're going to continue in a cycle of hatred over such a petty thing as someone's sexual preference?

 

[00slash00]

I guess your right having thought it over a bit, as long as it helps people it gets my okay. But just a quick run down, bisexuals and ESPECIALLY transgenders are also very prone to suicide. The ratio of trangender suicide is quite scary, The last thing they need is even more supposed "advice" on their mental conditions.

But as I said before, as long as they can bury the ugly hatchet and it helps people. 1 man's thoughts does not make up a group even if he is its creator.

As a trans person i can understand why the suicide rate would be so high. i feel that trans people as less accepted than homosexual people. the gay rights movement has made a lot of progress but it seems that most people (even people on this site) are still quite prejudice against trans people. this obviously makes it hard for a trans person to be willing to come out and even if they do, transitions costs millions of dollars and in many states its legal to fire someone just for being trans. the fear, doubt, and financial issues mean that many trans people, myself included, will probably never be able to transition. its very hard to look in the mirror every day and hate your body and know that theres nothing you can do about it. its hard for me to only be able to dress in a way that makes me feel comfortable, when no one else is around. i feel like i dont really belong anywhere and constantly have to hide who i am, which makes it almost impossible to feel confident.

i have no plans to ever kill myself but i can see how many trans people would be tempted

 

[Kriptonite]

Also, I cannot see how fairness can be considered hypocritical. People should not harm others, period. However, if they do, how is it unfair when, or if, it is reciprocated?

"Don't harm someone or I'll harm you."

You can't see the hypocrisy in it? You're suggesting causing harm is bad (and I agree) and that people shouldn't do it. But you are also suggesting it is okay to cause harm to someone if they caused harm to someone.

It's a circle of logic.

A hurts B hurts A hurts B hurts A, etc., etc.

I do not think we are going to be able to agree here. I'm not advocating hurting people. I'm trying to say people need to understand what they're wishing on others so it doesn't happen.
We both, however, agree that people should not wish bad things on one another, so, I propose that we simply leave it at that. Agreed?

 

[bojackx]

Alright then.

Well I would have thought that the Escapist forums are not really the best place to start this rant. Most people here are very accepting and tolerant of others. In fact, the people who would be worst for this are rednecks and whatnot (I'm guessing, since I've never seen one in real life) and generally lower income families where those kind of negative views are the norm.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Also, I cannot see how fairness can be considered hypocritical. People should not harm others, period. However, if they do, how is it unfair when, or if, it is reciprocated?

"Don't harm someone or I'll harm you."

You can't see the hypocrisy in it? You're suggesting causing harm is bad (and I agree) and that people shouldn't do it. But you are also suggesting it is okay to cause harm to someone if they caused harm to someone.

It's a circle of logic.

A hurts B hurts A hurts B hurts A, etc., etc.

I do not think we are going to be able to agree here. I'm not advocating hurting people. I'm trying to say people need to understand what they're wishing on others so it doesn't happen.
We both, however, agree that people should not wish bad things on one another, so, I propose that we simply leave it at that. Agreed?

Agreed!

Live and let live. If no one's getting hurt, move along. Life's too short to give a shit what two adults do with one another, lol.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Off topic, about bullied kids who commit suicide, I'm most likely going to take major flak for this. . .but fuck them, people today need to toughen up and face the hate and adversity.

Woah boy. You should probably read up on what depression is before trying to comment on suicide. While you're there, look up rape, child abuse and poverty.

 

[Kriptonite]

Agreed! Live and let live. If no one's getting hurt, move along. Life's too short to give a shit what two adults do with one another, lol.

Now if only that belief would spread more-so than it has...

 

[GenericAmerican]

]Woah boy. You should probably read up on what depression is before trying to comment on suicide. While you're there, look up rape, child abuse and poverty.

I don't need to read up on depression and suicide, I lived through it and probably lived through more than you have before I even turned 16.

I lived through a drunk cheating father and a hateful mother, I've been beaten, I've been stabbed, hell one time I was shot at by a drunk. I've watched an ambulance pull away with a dead friend in the back after he crashed his car, I watched as an uncle who was more a father too me than my biological one, foamed at the mouth and died in the seat in front of me while driving to the hospital. I was forced to live with my grandparents when my mother couldn't care for me, we lived off social security and didn't even have the money for gas to drive me too school or buy food. Before highschool I was quiet, shy, and too forgiving; other kids took advantage, bullied me beat me and stole shit. Then in highschool I figured it out, I grew the fuck up; I stopped taking shit and started giving it back to those who gave it too me.

Do you know what any of that is like? Don't tell me too read up on shit I already know about. I stand by my original comment, children today need to grow a pair and tough it out because life never gets any better.

I stopped acting like a victim, and waiting for everyone else to fix my problems. No one will in school, no one will in the real world.

If a kid kills himself because someone called him gay or stole his lunch money, well I can only say "Survival of the fittest." We probably didn't need you anyway.


*captcha: be nice

Like that ever got me anywhere.

 

[LilithSlave]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

I guess I can thank there being far too many Mass Effect threads for one thing.

They're making me hate the video game section right now.

But they're making the off-topic section more interesting.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

]Woah boy. You should probably read up on what depression is before trying to comment on suicide. While you're there, look up rape, child abuse and poverty.

I don't need to read up on depression and suicide, I lived through it and probably lived through more than you have before I even turned 16.

I lived through a drunk cheating father and a hateful mother, I've been beaten, I've been stabbed, hell one time I was shot at by a drunk. I've watched an ambulance pull away with a dead friend in the back after he crashed his car, I watched as an uncle who was more a father too me than my biological one, foamed at the mouth and died in the seat in front of me while driving to the hospital. I was forced to live with my grandparents when my mother couldn't care for me, we lived off social security and didn't even have the money for gas to drive me too school or buy food. Before highschool I was quiet, shy, and too forgiving; other kids took advantage, bullied me beat me and stole shit. Then in highschool I figured it out, I grew the fuck up; I stopped taking shit and started giving it back to those who gave it too me.

Do you know what any of that is like? Don't tell me too read up on shit I already know about. I stand by my original comment, children today need to grow a pair and tough it out because life never gets any better.

I stopped acting like a victim, and waiting for everyone else to fix my problems. No one will in school, no one will in the real world.

If a kid kills himself because someone called him gay or stole his lunch money, well I can only say "Survival of the fittest." We probably didn't need you anyway.


*captcha: be nice

Like that ever got me anywhere.

Dude, I emphasize with you, and while my own personal depression at the moment is probably nothing compared to what you've gone through...you've got to put yourself in other people's shoes. The crushing reality is that we live in a shitty world and life is tough, tougher than a lot of people can handle. There comes a point where a person feels trapped, too much stress piles onto them, or they have explosive bursts of rage, and they feel that the only way they escape is death.

It's not as simple as merely saying that if a kid kills himself because he's gay, then it's his fault or he should be tougher or whatever. I obviously don't need to tell you how much bullying, violence, depression, etc. over a long period of time, something which not even counselling or therapy sometimes can help, can drastically impact on someone's health. It REALLY doesn't help someone that already feels like shit and probably gets told that/feels like that every single of day of his/her's life to "stop acting like a victim and grow a pair". You've simply got to have some sympathy.

The only reason that I'd never consider suicide at the moment is because I'm still holding out hope for the cognitive behavioural therapy that I'll be undergoing soon, I don't want to be selfish and unload that burden on my family, I'm afraid of death and I don't know what'll happen after death. But this world just really baffles me and I'm finding it hard to understand other humans or even myself at the moment. When it feels like you're on a constant mindfuck, I honestly don't blame people for just deciding to end it all, if they're at the lowest point of misery in their lives and have long given up hoping for some kind of miracle in a living hell of randomness and arbitrary justice.

I won't even begin to get into euthanasia. Of course, an optimist says, "It could be worse", but a pessimist (someone like me) replies, "It could be better". And it's really hard to NOT take the latter mindset, when we're constantly surrounded by negativity.

 

[GenericAmerican]

Le snip

"It could be worse, it could be better." The way I view it, "It could be different."

Sorry but a lot of rage poured out of my reply. My phone doesn't get a signal at my house and I mistook a simple heads up message as a "get your ass out here now" message and I drove 30 miles for nothing. Then when I logged onto the escapist I had 11 replies all of which calling me a whole litany of bad things.

I had considered suicide when I was younger, about the time when we were out of money, I had failed calculus and we were served an eviction notice. But after some thinking I decided against it; the way I saw it, I wasn't stuck with a shitty life, life was stuck with me and I wasn't letting it win.

But as far as sympathy goes, I don't give that out easily because whenever I do it only ends up hurting me. My grandfather is a war vet, and he drilled most of it out of me, the rest just disappeared as no one else gave any too me.

All that being said, I'm not the person to get advice from.

But just stop and put the whole world on /ignore for a while, do something you like. Stop trying to understand life and other humans, don't worry what happens if you die; just sit back, and say "fuck you life, I'm having fun" and then have some fun.

 

[Phisi]

I thought you were going down the homosexuality is a disease road with that title. Well said though. I can't understand why people can't just ignore it. If you think homosexuality is the cause of the devil/choice then don't be/do homosexual acts yourself but don't force your beliefs on other people. Especially ones that infringe on their human rights.

 

[Vault101]

I read through the entire OP, and while I agree; there is way to much hate in the words which isn't the way to win arguments.

Off topic, about bullied kids who commit suicide, I'm most likely going to take major flak for this. . .but fuck them, people today need to toughen up and face the hate and adversity. Life doesn't get any better, and I've met people who were sheltered from the hate and bullying of public schools and guess what? They don't' function well in the real world.

.

people don't deserve to be bullied for just being the way they are....

and if you were a parent seeing your child go through that and commit suicide, you would feel differently

then again It seems youve got your own set of issues, so Id say your veiw on the matter is rather skewed

 

[Vault101]

So, there's been a lot of talk in the forum about homosexuality lately, due in large part to the upcoming Mass Effect threequel. Both sides of the fence have gotten out of hand and I think we all need to step back and take a minute to think about the victims of homosexuality.

I guess I can thank there being far too many Mass Effect threads for one thing.

They're making me hate the video game section right now.

But they're making the off-topic section more interesting.

..peopel are STILL going on about that? christ
Ive met the male gay chrachter, he seems fine, just mentions off hand he had a husband

Im assuming the female gay charachter is that dark skinned british chick...but I dont know yet..she's pretty cool, but Im sticking with Kaiden

 

[GenericAmerican]

Big fat flaming snip

Don't doubt me, the grim reaper came to my house, I threw his ass back outside.

And as explained in another post, I was pissed when I wrote that reply; while what all I said was true, I focused a bit too much on myself.

Anyhow. . .a story.

Those insecure religious kids are the best. When they avoid direct confrontation, it becomes a war, and like a war you can't win it yourself; all you need are a few friends. I helped a bi friend in Junior year fight back a group of Christian bigots.

A group of them were doing what you describe, spreading lies and hate for no reason other than "the bible says it's wrong."

You can't win an argument with a Christian, mostly because the bible says so.

So all we did was start our own lies and rumors, nothing bad or serious to start with but just the seeds. Focused it on the leader of the little group. My friend did nothing, he got to wait and take part in the grand finale. Me and some others did the grunt work, we started spreading our own rumors and lies focused right on leader of those assholes.

*lets call the bigot john*

The sheeple at school were so easily lead to believe the homophobic hate, and like sheeple, they started to spread our rumors around simply because we spread them.

Our story, nothing special, just a rumor that john himself was a closet homo, and all his hate mongering was to cover up the fact. If my friend was directly verbally attacked by any of the homophbes, he would redirect with something like, "give john a kiss for me." "tell john i'll meet him at our usual place after school." "Did john say that? I love it when he talks dirty."

John and his group responded with more hate, even had one try to win my friend over to Christianity. *we hate you and constantly say you will die and burn in hell for eternity. We spread lies and hate about you openly, but please come join us; we will still hate you but god loves you! And apparently that makes it okay. Here is a romans road pamphlet.*

This went on for a few months, the christian kids tried to get there parents involved at one point but the school, as usual, didn't care. We started using facebook, listing my friend as in a relationship with john, posting on his wall until blocked us. But the internet is a magical place, once something is on it, it never leaves.

But the grand finale, what ultimately got john and his group to stop, is a moment I will never forget as long as I live; right there after 5th period, first building between H3 and H5, to the left of the computer lab.

My friend walked up to john and his group in the middle of the hall, he slapped john on the ass, turned him around grabbed john's crotch and kissed him full on the lips before he said "My place, tonight."

I have never seen a more disgusted, horrified, confused, and embarrassed look on someones face before. The whole hallway was drowned in the sound of laughter, and the same homophobic comments once directed at my friend were now being poured onto john.

Poor john just ran and hid in embarrassment. He didn't tell teachers or his parents, and honestly I wouldn't have either. But it wouldn't matter, everyone in the hall saw that, the news spread like crazy, by next period the whole school knew.

A week later, and I almost felt sorry for john, his parents caught wind of it...they heard he had kissed a boy in the middle of school and the rumors of homosexuality. Apparently he not only had his parents on his case, but also the pastor and other families at his church. And no one at school left him alone for the rest of the year.

He was kissed full on in the middle of the hall and groped, as far as anyone who saw that knew, all those rumors we spread were true. You can't live that down or talk your way out of that. He transferred schools the next year.

John never bothered my friend for the rest of junior year, and the hate on my friend died off after that because, and I quote from a senior, "That was the single most hilarious thing I have ever witnessed in my life."

It was brilliant, all their hate just added fuel to the fire.

It wasn't something easily pulled off, or something that was guaranteed to work; but god damn it was worth it too see that little shit go down in flames. I remember the bible saying something about reaping what you sow.

Okay shared my little story. And no, I haven't personally went through the bullying homosexuals receive, but I helped end some. Just a change of tactics.

But I still stand by my original stance of man up. Because no one will fix it for you. My friend weathered the hate while we laid the groundwork; and then knocked john off his high horse and right down into the mud he had been slinging. If my friend hadn't been man enough to stand up to the hate, all we would have accomplished was spreading empty rumors.

 

[GenericAmerican]

people don't deserve to be bullied for just being the way they are....

and if you were a parent seeing your child go through that and commit suicide, you would feel differently

then again It seems youve got your own set of issues, so Id say your veiw on the matter is rather skewed

No they don't.

I might, we'll see; I just don't plan on raising a child that gets upset because some idiot called him a bad name.

And hell yes I have plenty of issues; it gives me a rather interesting view on the subject. If you search around, I explained in a reply earlier in the thread.

 

[Vault101]

people don't deserve to be bullied for just being the way they are....

and if you were a parent seeing your child go through that and commit suicide, you would feel differently

then again It seems youve got your own set of issues, so Id say your veiw on the matter is rather skewed

; I just don't plan on raising a child that gets upset because some idiot called him a bad name.

.

*sigh* your trivialising somthign very serious....of coarse kids react to thease things in different ways, some dont get depression, some dont commit suicide,

some do, we all induviduals after all

and I can't stand it when peopel go back to the same argument "yeah? well I went through some hardship and I came out just fine! they should jsut toughen up"

THEY and not YOU, you cant tell people their problems don't matter..ot to suck it up, it doesnt work that way

and yeah, Ive read your other posts