The villains of the MCU are pretty lousy aren't they?

[Johnny Novgorod]

Marvel's movies can be fun, exciting, quotable, entertaining and spectacular, and with the exception of Hawkeye I think we all agree the superheroes are all charming and likeable in their own quirky little ways.

But the villains, good god. Talk about trying too hard. I saw Guardians of the Galaxy yesterday. I was completely bored by the villains, Ronan and Thanos, and they can thank me I'm remembering their names for now. They're all talk and scowl. And then moving back in time across the many MCU movies I've come to realize none of the villains have left much of an impression on me.

There's the elf from Thor 2, whatever his name was. The token bad guys from Cap 2. The generic alien army from Avengers. Then there's the villains who seem to draw their popularity from their actors rather than their characters. I love Tom Hiddleston and all (who was very good in Thor 2) but as the head villain in Avengers and the first Thor he was at his most underwhelming. Same deal with Red Skull: Hugo Weaving is a powerful actor with a magnetic presence, but the character he played was just sooo boring and ineffectual. You can tell the writers are trying so hard every time that guy kills his own henchmen in a fit, which happens gods knows how many times in that movie. And I'm not even considering the Hulk movie.

The one movie that has a decent villain is the first Iron Man. Bridges is an awesome actor and Stane can be believably charming, funny, pathetic, scary and formidable. He's an actual character with a place in Tony Stark's arc and the movie's plot. He's not just "the bad guy that suddenly showed up and you need to defeat", like Avengers, Thor 2 or Guardians of the Galaxy. The bad guys from the later 2 movies were OK, though I think Rourke's character was underused in the 2nd one and... well I like the twist from Iron Man 3 but it doesn't make for much of a bad guy.

TL;DR

With the exception of Obadiah Stane and a couple of his underused successors, I think the MCU has yet to repeat its initial success at villains. I'm not counting guys like Loki or Red Skull because for me they work largely thanks to the actors that interpret them rather than their actual characters. The last few villains I've gone through have left me bored and undisturbed.

What do you think of the MCU villains?

 

[shootthebandit]

I can think of a few good ones

X-men has magneto which is played by 2 incredible actors

Willem dafoe and James Franco were pretty good in the toby mcguire spiderman. I liked the whole father/son thing

Daredevil is known for being a terrible movie but Colin Farrell as bullseye is one of my favourite on-screen villains. Michael Clark Duncan as kingpin was badass too (but that was purely down to michael clark duncan, if anyone was to be kingpin it would be him)

-------

As far as recent avengers marvel I agree there hasnt been any decent villains. Loki was half decent but he was just a ***** for those aliens that were invading not to mention tom hiddleston done well with not such a great character

 

[Anachronism]

I can think of a few good ones

X-men has magneto which is played by 2 incredible actors

Willem dafoe and James Franco were pretty good in the toby mcguire spiderman. I liked the whole father/son thing

Daredevil is known for being a terrible movie but Colin Farrell as bullseye is one of my favourite on-screen villains. Michael Clark Duncan as kingpin was badass too (but that was purely down to michael clark duncan, if anyone was to be kingpin it would be him)

None of them are from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which is itself kind of the problem. Practically all of the best Marvel villains are at other studios: Fox have Doctor Doom, Magneto and Galactus; and Sony have Spider-Man's entire rogues' gallery, which is second only to Batman's.

I really enjoyed Loki and the Red Skull, but apart from that the MCU's villains have been seriously underwhelming. I was particularly disappointed with how the Winter Soldier ended up spending 90% of his own movie as a generic, faceless henchman who has no impact on the plot.

 

[Bertylicious]

I'd say you make a fair point, Johnny. The russian fellow in Iron Man 2 didn't really have any personality or relatable features, the baddy from Iron Man 3 was equally meh.

I'm not that familiar with the character Thanos, from like, the actual Marvel universe, but isn't he meant to be the god of death or somesuch?

 

[shootthebandit]

None of them are from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which is itself kind of the problem. Practically all of the best Marvel villains are at other studios: Fox have Doctor Doom, Magneto and Galactus; and Sony have Spider-Man's entire rogues' gallery, which is second only to Batman's.

I was just going to raise that issue. This is why copyright issues and bureaucracy hold things back. The fact that all the marvel characters are divvied up between the studios is stupid. Marvels universe is huge and its a shame that it has to be divided up like this. It is really a shame that we will never see the avengers and X-men on screen together. Swap hawkeye and black widow for spiderman and wolverine and the avengers would be insanely better but we can only dream

 

[Auberon]

Thanos has dabbled in probably every single source of cosmic power in his decades of comic villainy, but as I know never god of death exclusively. He just has crush on Death.

 

[Queen Michael]

I honestly really, really liked Vanko in Iron Man 2. And the Mandarin was the most innovative villain of any superhero movie that's ever been made, if you ask Queen Michael.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Thanos is probably my favorite villain, hell he almost succeeded in Infinity Gauntlet, took out pretty much every superhero, god-like being and all. If it weren't for a few small errors he'd have been even more successful (til the Tri-judge stepped in). But I still feel he's a villain that can overshadow the heroes.
However, I find Marvel villains, while not all too successful, to be more memorable than most of the DC Universe cast. Except for Batman's rogues gallery and a couple of Superman villains, I have to remind myself who the fuck certain people are. In contrast, I can easily match up any of the Marvel villains with their nemesis almost without fail.
I'd love to see the MCU movies use the Acts of Vengeance arc with Loki, where he entices villains to go up against heroes they've never faced... And I also wonder why they've never used Namor. Namor is a great villain/hero because he really gives no fucks whatsoever about the surface-dwellers, is a right badass and would be pretty cool to see on the big screen. Oh and Namor totally knocked out the Hulk in one of their first fights, and the second time they met. I'd love to see Hulk get dropped in the ocean, Namor shows up to see who the hell is this green thing encroaching on his 'hood and drag the unconcious Hulk to shore post-fight. Anyone else want to see an underwater Hulk Namor clash?

 

[Delock]

Part of the problem is that the MCU is a movie universe, and a lot of what I've seen of the Avengers from a couple of books and that Earth's Mightest Heroes show from awhile back is that they're more suited as a team to fighting enemies that are either leading armies of faceless goons or teamups of various lesser known villains that work well in combination, which works great for shorter arcs rather than full 2 hour intervals. Plus, with movies you have fewer entries, so less screentime can be afforded to those no name villains that people enjoy but don't fall in love with the same ways true "rogues" or an "archnemesis".

However, to the credit of the MCU, when they do dabble in these lesser villains, they make them work like they should (Batroc the Leaper and Crossbones for example in the latest Capt. America movie). Sadly I doubt this means we'll be getting an MCU equivalent of the Superior Foes of Spiderman from these cameos.

 

[ExDeath730]

I understand what you're saying, but i really liked both Loki and the Winter Soldier, he wasn't the main bad guy, but when he was on the screen he stole the show. The Mandarin situation was botched, but at least the Marvel One-shot cleared the situation and made it possible for the real Mandarin to appear, and i hope it will, i like battle of science vs. magic.

Anyway, i have more hope for the next villains, in particular for Ultron in Avengers 2, David Spader is great and i can imagine what he can do in the role.

And Delock, we can always gain a Thunderbolts movie down the line, and i would love it, there is a rumour that Baron Zemo is the bad guy of Cap 3, so after that if he survives, it would be the perfect moment to start a Thunderbolts team with him on the lead, they just need to cast someone really charismatic to play the anti-villain.

 

[laggyteabag]

I think it might be just because they are used only once for the most part, at least with the exception of Loki. Ultron should be pretty interesting, considering that he is one of the most dangerous villains that the Avengers have ever faced, yet this is going to be his first appearance in the MCU, as opposed to Loki who appeared in Thor prior to his appearance in Avengers.

 

[fezgod]

I've noticed that recent DC movies have done villains really well. Obviously the Dark Knight trilogy has had more complex and characterized villains than any of the MCU villains. Even Zod, from Man of Steel, was an excellent villain. Sure, the movie he was in wasn't that big of a deal, but Zod had a pretty interesting, clear-cut and understandable motivation throughout the movie.

My guess is the lack of characterization in villains comes from the fact that MCU movies are almost factory-made now. They need to have each movie released at a certain time so script-writing probably isn't the highest priority. The heroes have been featured in several movies already, so the writers know how to breathe life into those characters. The villains, not so much luck for them.

 

[spoonybard.hahs]

snip

Well, first off, an army in this case isn't a villain. The chitauri were a tool being used by Loki to further his agenda. So they don't count. As for the rest:

1. 
   * Loki has really been the breakout villain. Yes, a huge part of that is due to Tom Hiddleston taking such huge ownership of the role. However, unlike most of the other villains, there's a lot going on that makes the character truly standout. The competition with his brother; dealing with his true lineage; fear that he has never been loved by anyone; and an obvious internal conflict about taking over Asgard and killing Thor and Odin, knowing that it would hurt Frigga. But the real clincher is that - unlike the comics - there is a sense that Loki could be redeem himself if he actually tried.
   
   * Stane was pretty worthless. Seriously, leaving incriminating evidence on your own office PC? WTH? He was fun to have around - and that was purely because of the Dude. I have a strong feeling we'll learn more about him if and when Iron Man 4 happens.
   
   * Red Skull was Red Skull, as such he was just a check box on the list of, "We need this in the Cap origin story." It actually sucked that that they got the clip art of movie villain actors to play him. Serviceable, but nothing really beyond that. I have to give props to Arnim Zola though. The reveal in Cap 2 puts him miles above Skull in the MCU. I hope we get to see him again.
   
   * Trvor/Killian. Loved Trevor, but he wasn't a villain. And I absolutely loved the twist. What I hated was how Marvel walked back on it.
   Spoiler

   I had hoped that with the reveal of Killian as the one pulling the strings of the Ten Rings, there was a silent nod that he was actually behind the events of IM1. However, given that "Hail to the King" stated there was indeed a real Mandarin, that theory got blown out of the water. I think it would have been more interesting if the Ten Rings was a secret cabal of military industrialists, politicians, and terrorists working together.
   Killian I sort of liked because he was created by Tony. A product of Tony's arrogance that showed him he still has a lot to make up for. But at the same time, he's a fun house mirror of Tony.
   
   * Winter Soldier has all the makings of a second Loki, which we'll get to see in Cap 3. I can't really say he was a good or bad villain, since he was pretty much off screen for most of Cap 2. Plus, brain washing.
   
   * Ivan Vanko. Ehh... Yeah... Revenge is boring. Especially if all you're going to do is the same exact thing your enemy is doing, only with electric whips (before anyone says it, yes, I know he's an amalgam of Crimson Dynamo and Whiplash). Even with all the method acting Rouke threw at it, the character just fell flat. Hammer was great. It was like watching a live action version of Dr. Venture if he worked for the Guild.
   
   * The real villain of The Incredible Hulk was General Ross. His singular determination to bring in Banner lead to creating yet another gamma monster, adding more blood to his hands than the Hulk. I liked him because - like all good villains - he believed he was in the right.

As for Ronan and Thanos, I'll be seeing Guardians this weekend. From what I've heard so far, Thanos wasn't supposed to be that big of a part in the movie, since they are just building him up for Avengers 3. The way people have been talking, Ronan is the main villain for the film.

 

[coheedswicked]

I have to say that I agree for the most part, although I have to say I personally enjoyed the hell out of Loki in both character and actor. The problem is that a lot of Marvels really great baddies are tied up by Fox and Sony. Dr. Doom, despite his name is actually a very good villain who not only is a believably credible threat but also complex in a character sense and motivations (ie is he really that bad of a guy since his country enjoys the lowest crime rates in the world) its clear that he actually cares, to some extend about his country and his people. Magneto, especially the modern incarnations of the character is in my opinion the best villain, ever... hands down. Norman Osborn is another great one. When they first brought him back in the comics I was skeptical but he turns out to be a truly threatening presence and fascinating character.

So think about it. Who are Iron Man villains? Russians from the cold war. Caps? Nazis from WWII. They're dated, and while they did a great job updating the heroes of the respective franchises, the villains not so much. What they really need to do is mine Thor and Asgard for interesting characters. I would love to see the enchantress and executioner in all their MCU glory.

 

[maximara]

I'd say you make a fair point, Johnny. The russian fellow in Iron Man 2 didn't really have any personality or relatable features, the baddy from Iron Man 3 was equally meh.

I'm not that familiar with the character Thanos, from like, the actual Marvel universe, but isn't he meant to be the god of death or somesuch?

No, Thanos is an alien born on Titan who fell in love with Mistress Death (one of the many personifications of Death in the Marvel Universe) who tries to impress his lady love...which tends to result in loads of people dying. For example, his first attempt was to have some aliens hit Titan with a nuclear bombardment killing millions.

And that is basically his whole stick most of the time. It is during the few times when writers go out of the 'wants to impress Death as girl friend' box that Thanos actually gets interesting.

 

[maximara]

I have to say that I agree for the most part, although I have to say I personally enjoyed the hell out of Loki in both character and actor. The problem is that a lot of Marvels really great baddies are tied up by Fox and Sony. Dr. Doom, despite his name is actually a very good villain who not only is a believably credible threat but also complex in a character sense and motivations (ie is he really that bad of a guy since his country enjoys the lowest crime rates in the world) its clear that he actually cares, to some extend about his country and his people. Magneto, especially the modern incarnations of the character is in my opinion the best villain, ever... hands down. Norman Osborn is another great one. When they first brought him back in the comics I was skeptical but he turns out to be a truly threatening presence and fascinating character.

So think about it. Who are Iron Man villains? Russians from the cold war. Caps? Nazis from WWII. They're dated, and while they did a great job updating the heroes of the respective franchises, the villains not so much. What they really need to do is mine Thor and Asgard for interesting characters. I would love to see the enchantress and executioner in all their MCU glory.

Well Iron Man also had the Mandarin which was a classic Yellow Peril villain that that the movie did a very interesting spin on (and IMHO about the only way one *could* use the character). Cap's villains are more then Nazis; even his classic foe the Red Skull abandoned his views of Nazism and embraced a twisted version of the American dream of capitalism and self-determination.

 

[Something Amyss]

I would like to point out that a reason for this might just be appealing to the base. I didn't really care who the Avengers were fighting, I just wanted to see years of cinematic continuity team up onscreen and stomp the crap out of people. Anything else was pretty much gravy, like Ruffalo's Banner.

I mean, when you get to this scene:


Does it even matter who they're fighting anymore?

I think it might be just because they are used only once for the most part, at least with the exception of Loki. Ultron should be pretty interesting, considering that he is one of the most dangerous villains that the Avengers have ever faced, yet this is going to be his first appearance in the MCU, as opposed to Loki who appeared in Thor prior to his appearance in Avengers.

Ultron, at least, appears to be fairly dominant. One of the issues with Loki is he gets a lot of time being *****-slapped around. And while he has some nice character moments (mostly Thor), he doesn't come off terribly strong there, either. Only relative to the rest of the MCU.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Ultron, at least, appears to be fairly dominant. One of the issues with Loki is he gets a lot of time being *****-slapped around. And while he has some nice character moments (mostly Thor), he doesn't come off terribly strong there, either. Only relative to the rest of the MCU.

Loki's more a manipulator than a straight up villain. Again I go to the Acts of Vengeance arc, where he attempts to cause chaos by convincing myriad villains to switch up from their usual nemesis to give the world's heroes a headache. He fails, because he's Loki but it is his MO in just about any plot. He can't take anyone one-on-one so he has to find ways of having the upper-hand before a fight or get someone to do it for him (the Chitauri in MCU continuity, the frost giants, etc). I've modeled a few villains in D&D after him because of how great a manipulator he is.
Ultron is more of a tough nut to crack because of his advanced nature and relentless attitude. And a good hatred for his creator and the Avengers doesn't hurt.

On a different note, the split of the Marvel IP's in cinema sucks in some ways because of how many missed opportunities there are... like the Acts of Vengeance parts where Magneto buries the Red Skull in a mausoleum because, well Mags HATES Nazis. Ugh, so many wasted things because of studio rivalry...

 

[Ishal]

I think the villains are fine, better than fine, in fact. They're fun.

FUN.

Something that movies seem to be forgetting more and more these days. Look at the source material and consider how you're going to adapt it into movies. Way I see it, you have two choices.

1) See how ridiculous everything looks and change it. Change the setting to be more gritty, change the costumes to look less ridiculous, and change the villains and heroes so they can appeal to the audience that thinks all this is childish, and probably shouldn't be watching in the fist place.

2) See how ridiculous everything looks and roll with it. It's a joke, but the movie is in on the joke. It respects it's source material, but at the same time isn't afraid to poke fun at it now and again. It knows what it is, and doesn't try to be anything else. The heroes are HAM the villains are HAM, and the most important thing is the spectacle.

I don't go to these movies with critic goggles on. I'm not expecting some deep plot or some villain with a tragic backstory and compelling motives. I'm going to have fun, watch some action, and have a few laughs.

"The villains define a good story" blah blah blah. Thank you Ebert. Don't care. In some instances that's true. But these movies? The heroes are the ones taking center stage. It's the opposite of The Dark Knight were the Joker carried the film. In the MCU the heroes are where it's at. People remember Tony Stark and Cap because their actors play them so well. People are going to see these cool heroes knock down some villains, that's it.

When you compare the MCU and the laughable DCU movies, the betters are clear. DC may have better villains such as Raz al Ghul and the Joker, but they utterly fail in the hero department. Man of Steel flopped by making Superman gritty and nobody cares about Batman the character. Batman is defined by the villains, not so with the Marvel heroes.