The Walking Dead Episode 5: No time Left. Your thoughts? [SPOILERS]

[veloper]

Well I wouldn't go that far, since true scotsmen in this analogy would include any mediocre point&clicker, tons of really bad first person shooters and more trash from the bin.

TWD atleast had a decent story, so it still had a little entertainment value. I'll give it that.

Well that's the thing, man. A game is a game is a game. I've been playing longer than you, and as long as Anthraxus. Does that mean *I* get to tell *you* what a real game is? When you sing the praises of Planescape, do I get to scoff and say "Planescape was just trying to be a book, Ultima IV was a REAL game". Do I get to bludgeon you with musty memories of M.U.L.E. and Pirates! and Crush Crumble and Chomp? I find gaming greyhairs telling COD fans that they don't know a real game if they bit them in the ass just as arrogant and obnoxious as 2K telling us strategy games aren't contemporary.

We're not talking about E.T. The Game or Big Rigs or Ultima IX here, this is not an objectively terrible experience. It's a game that has sacrificed a certain measure of player freedom and mechanical complexity in order to deliver a story with better pacing and heightened emotional resonance. Whether or not that's a tradeoff that appeals to you personally is a fine question. Perhaps, like Anthraxus, you don't like "cinematic" or linear gaming experiences, you want to roam free. You want Dwarf Fortress, and not Wing Commander. That's fine. Everyone is permitted their predilections, it's not like we can gainsay them. However, saying that the game is "rigged" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what the point of the game was, and snotting that you prefer "actual games" is you trying to promote your personal benchmark for quality as a universal one.

I like all games. I like text adventures like Zork and Hitchhikers. I like no-frills stat crunching RPGs like Arkania or KoL, and I like cinematic light weight RPGs like ME or Witcher. I like MMOs. I like strategy games, both historical and contemporary. I like the new XCOM. I love JA2. I like indie games with shitty graphics and tons of charm, and I like AAA games with ridiculous production values and linear gameplay. It's very, very rare that I hate a game. It's even rarer that I'd try to argue that it's not even a game and attempt to imply that people are stupid for enjoying it. I don't demand that everyone share this philosophy, but I think it's worth considering.

Just as it happens I do like Planescape. Now if someone were to tell me it's just trying to be a book, I'd concede there's alot of reading there and not much in the way of tactical combat.
I'd have liked Ps:T even more if the combat was good aswell.

I view the game (gameplay) and story as two different things. Nowhere did I mean to imply you're not allowed to like TWD. Should it ever come to an argument whether the game is good or not, then that would be a very different thread.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I view the game (gameplay) and story as two different things. Nowhere did I mean to imply you're not allowed to like TWD. Should it ever come to an argument whether the game is good or not, then that would be a very different thread.

I think it's phenomenal at *what it tries to do*. I'm not sure ball breaking puzzles would've added to the experience. In fact, I'm more or less certain they would've been detrimental to the narrative flow.

Walking Dead falls very much into the same camp as To the Moon for me. I could judge them harshly on the quality of their game play, but that feels very much like I'd be missing the point entirely. It would be like me writing a Dwarf Fortress review, savaging it for its graphics, sound, and UI, and proclaiming it a total waste of time as a result.

I think a "Game" can be many things, though. It doesn't need to be Omega or Alpha Centauri to be a "game", any more than it needs to have 15 hours worth of meticulously crafted cinematics to be worth playing. I will agree with you, however, that if you're an individual who puts an absolute premium on complex or dense mechanics, you will probably not enjoy Walking Dead on that level. At all.

 

[Korten12]

For that matter, does Lily survive? Because after what she pulled I just left her on the side of the road.

Yes, she is the same Lily that was in the comics (hence why she had to leave).

(Spoilers for Comic and possible hints at the Tv show)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Comic_Series)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Video_Game)

As opposed to the Tv Show, the game is direct canon with the comic canon.

 

[Lono Shrugged]

I kind of feel that the confrontation with the stranger would have had more of an effect if it were someone related to the person Lee may or may not have killed, instead of some guy who's only tangentially related to the story at best.
But I can't help feel I'm missing something, having not read the comics or watched much of the show, I get the feeling some things are more fleshed out.

Good point, but I really liked how he threw all your decisions back in your face and you either had to rationalize or accept them. It was a nice pay off to all the decisions you made leading to that point. Sure you had limited choices that didn't make a huge difference but it forced you to question WHY you made them. That's the moment I decided this deserved my game of the year. They were really trying to make a statement about moral choices and the reality that there are only really shades of grey.

You didn't miss anything by the way. This could have been any old zombie story.

 

[jackinmydaniels]

I wasn't crying at the end, because I'm a big manly man with large testicles and a huge beard, but I was tearing up a little. I can't recall playing a game in any recent memory that has had me so emotionally invested, I think the cliffhanger was a bit of a punch to the gut but I think that they'll make up for it with season 2.

And hot damn! Lee is so badass, nothing like wading through a crowd of zombies with nothing but a shard of glass and a kitchen utensil. Step aside Frank West, we have a new ultimate badass zombie killer in the hizouse.

 

[Bill Nye the Zombie]

I had everyone go with me, and when we got back to the house from the last episode, I got blindsided by Ben yelling at Kenny because "You got to say goodbye to your family" and he didn't know what happened to his parents or sister. After that it was one giant emotional roller coaster, like when Kenny died to save Ben, who he hated since episode 3. That brought some tears to my eye.

However, I think the stranger was a little weird. Yeah, its nice that he has a good reason to hate Lee, but it seems a little odd to make THAT event one of the most important things in the whole series.

I also think this wasn't Lee's story, but it was Clems story. I mean everything we've been doing since we met her has been related to her really. And the fact they killed off all but two characters away from her kind of reinforces it, and those two might not even be alive.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

Now, I'm not sure if I was the only one that noticed this (Most likely Not) but did anyone else notice the (Roughly) 5 "Clementine will Remember that" moments in the last Chapter? Looking back on it, It's definitely implying a much larger story involving Clem. Lee was the main character, but I just think that it will help make the story far more personalized.

Yeah, well...

*Carley/Doug will remember that*
*Lilly kills Carley/Doug*

I'm sorry bro, it doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

[votemarvel]

Yes, she is the same Lily that was in the comics (hence why she had to leave).

(Spoilers for Comic and possible hints at the Tv show)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Comic_Series)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Video_Game)

As opposed to the Tv Show, the game is direct canon with the comic canon.

It's not the same Lily.

The Lily in the comic is the Lily from the recently released "Road to Woodbury" novel, she has a different background and personality to the Lily in the game.

Of course this could be just a continuity error but as the novel and comic is written by Kirkman, I'd err on it being correct.

There being two women with the same name being merely coincidence.

 

[Korten12]

Yes, she is the same Lily that was in the comics (hence why she had to leave).

(Spoilers for Comic and possible hints at the Tv show)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Comic_Series)

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul_(Video_Game)

As opposed to the Tv Show, the game is direct canon with the comic canon.

It's not the same Lily.

The Lily in the comic is the Lily from the recently released "Road to Woodbury" novel, she has a different background and personality to the Lily in the game.

Of course this could be just a continuity error but as the novel and comic is written by Kirkman, I'd err on it being correct.

There being two women with the same name being merely coincidence.

I believe it is a continuity error. Since the game is canon to the comic and it can't be a coincidence to have two woman who look nearly the same, have the same name, and are in the same area. Unless somehow cloning is part of the Walking Dead. :/

 

[velcrokidneyz]

wow am I the only one who killed ben? i feel like im missing out on what ppl are atalking about. but yes it was a horribly sad ending, but one of my favorite games. i will probably replay it in the near future and make some different choices to see what the outcomes are, I know it will all basically be the same but i just want to see.

btw how could you fucking save ben. i hate him.

EDIT: also i couldnt put clem through shooting me, and according to the post game statistics i am in the minority here. i just didnt feel right having her basically kill her "father"

 

[personion]

Overall thoughts of the entire series? The gameplay was disappointing. Your choices felt meaningless overall. It was less about picking who lives and who dies, and more about picking who lives longer and who dies quicker . Not my thing. I think they could expand on the choice system a bit more in Season 2. Season 1 had a great story to be sure, and the ending was certainly just as excellent as everyone is praising it to be, but it would be more excellent if the choices we'd made had more impact than a brief mention by the stranger at the end of the game. No matter what you do, Lee dies, and everyone but Omid, Christa and Clementine die. At least in Heavy Rain there were many different end-game scenarios; here, it's all the same.

Anyway, what I've said has just been said by everyone else. But yeah, it's put me off enough to not want to buy the second series, unless there is sufficient, actual meaningful choices.

 

[velcrokidneyz]

wow am I the only one who killed ben? i feel like im missing out on what ppl are atalking about. but yes it was a horribly sad ending, but one of my favorite games. i will probably replay it in the near future and make some different choices to see what the outcomes are, I know it will all basically be the same but i just want to see.

btw how could you fucking save ben. i hate him.

EDIT: also i couldnt put clem through shooting me, and according to the post game statistics i am in the minority here. i just didnt feel right having her basically kill her "father"

I didn't kill Ben, because he felt like a real person, and I don't want to kill a real person. This is the first game that has ever had me care about the emotional impact of my actions instead of just thinking about progressing the story willy-nilly. I honestly don't think I can play the game just to make opposite decisions, I care too much.

thats exactly why i killed him, i was involved in the story line pretty deeply and i was super pissed how he sold us out and as soon as he admitted it i was gonna lose him the first chance i got. i was very cold towards him. now i would be lying if i said i didnt feel a twinge of regret but his sacrifice absolved him somewhat and i stand by it. although on my next playthrough i will prolly save him.

 

[ServebotFrank]

wow am I the only one who killed ben? i feel like im missing out on what ppl are atalking about. but yes it was a horribly sad ending, but one of my favorite games. i will probably replay it in the near future and make some different choices to see what the outcomes are, I know it will all basically be the same but i just want to see.

btw how could you fucking save ben. i hate him.

EDIT: also i couldnt put clem through shooting me, and according to the post game statistics i am in the minority here. i just didnt feel right having her basically kill her "father"

I saved Ben just because I felt it was too easy a way for him. Both Ben and Kenny came with me for the first part of Episode 5 and resulted in few funny exchanges between the two,

Lee: How's that door holding guys?
Ben: Good Lee, we locked it up tight.
Kenny: Good thing there wasn't a fucking hatchet locking the door.

Lee: Who should go ring the bell.
Kenny: I don't know man, how do we decide that?
Ben: I could do it.
Kenny: *Quickly* Yeah Ben should do it.

You do start to like Ben a lot more in Episode 5. Before the zombies attack the house, Kenny gets really pissed off at Ben and rants about how Lee should never have saved his life. Ben goes on a rant of his own, it really made me like and respect him a lot more when I hated him so much previously. That's some good writing right there.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Overall thoughts of the entire series? The gameplay was disappointing. Your choices felt meaningless overall. It was less about picking who lives and who dies, and more about picking who lives longer and who dies quicker . Not my thing. I think they could expand on the choice system a bit more in Season 2. Season 1 had a great story to be sure, and the ending was certainly just as excellent as everyone is praising it to be, but it would be more excellent if the choices we'd made had more impact than a brief mention by the stranger at the end of the game. No matter what you do, Lee dies, and everyone but Omid, Christa and Clementine die. At least in Heavy Rain there were many different end-game scenarios; here, it's all the same.

Anyway, what I've said has just been said by everyone else. But yeah, it's put me off enough to not want to buy the second series, unless there is sufficient, actual meaningful choices.

If they are planning on having Season 2 be a continuation of Season 1, then they'd have no choice but to keep everything pretty much the same so that the story would stay coherent.

 

[votemarvel]

I believe it is a continuity error. Since the game is canon to the comic and it can't be a coincidence to have two woman who look nearly the same, have the same name, and are in the same area. Unless somehow cloning is part of the Walking Dead. :/

It would be near impossible for the two women to be the same person.

The Lily in the book had her father (who has a different name to the game version) die saving her during an evacuation. She goes from the camp she arrived in after that evacuation directly to Woodbury with Bob Stookey who is recognisable as the same character from the comic. Also she interacts with the Governor and several other comic characters in the book.

Lily from the game on the other hand is in Macon during the initial outbreak, we know this from the first episode, and her father (who is a completely different character) is with her and doesn't die until much later on. She interacts with Glenn but we never see them interact in the comic.

Plus the timelines of the novel and game Lily just can't be made to fit.

So you have two women with a different background, a different parent, a different personality and timelines that just don't mesh. The only things they share are a similar appearance and their name.

I think they may have originally been intended to be the same person but now there are just too many things to reconcile for that to happen.

Anyway back to the topic.I enjoyed that the guy on the radio turned out to be related to some seemingly innocuous event from early in the season. I would have liked there to be a bit more difference depending on your car choice and for Lee to refute the claims he was making. Plus the man's version of his events just didn't jive up with the scene we saw in the comic, something was definitely off about him and it wasn't just that he was crazy.

The episode did seem shorter than the previous ones but I don't think that was a bad thing. They needed to keep up the pace, there just wasn't room for downtime as there was in previous entries.

It was a shame to see most of the cast killed off, I was really hoping Kenny would survive (though if you don't see a body it isn't certain he's dead) and look after Clem, since that's what I wanted. Omid and Christa always seemed a little shifty and untrustworthy to me.

Not the best episode of the season but a great way to wrap up the Clem and Lee relationship.

 

[Reven]

It was good.

Notice that I said good. Not great.

Spoiler: Here´s why

The cliffhanger at the end was pretty cheap, and the way they just cut it off when Lee either gets left behind och shot was pretty fucking jarring. The episode also hammers home that your descisions de facto mean absolutely nothing except for diffrent flavor text from a psychopath. It ranges from understandable and acceptable (Chop off your arm? Doesn´t matter, Lee dies anyway. I mean, what did you expect?) to disappointing (You only got one man to come with you? Doesn´t matter, all of them come with you anyway!) to downright fucking rage-inducing (Saved Ben? He dies before doing anything meaningful!)

That being said, it was still and amazing finale, and I really look forward to seeing what direction they decide to go in with season 2.

But I´m also concerned about it. From that cliffhanger, I assume they´re going to keep following Clementine. But that raises a whole lot of potential problems. First off, if they try to replicate the bond that Lee and Clementine had, they cheapen the whole of season 1. But how else are they going to do it? And that´s not a rhetoric question. If you have an idea, please tell me, because I really can not see it being done in any way that´s even close to as meaningful as season 1.

Secondly, if they do decide to leave Clementine, they leave their fans with an unresolved cliffhanger that´s incredibly unsatisfying.

Too me, it just seems like damned if you do, damned if you don´t.

That said, I´m still hyped. Hopefully our choices will matter more in season 2.

I can't comment on the save files since i've never had any trouble, but i completely disagree with your choices not mattering. I feel that while they don't really affect the overall story arc, looking back, they were never meant to. The consequences from your choices come from your changing relationships with the others. There's no way to know who's going to live and who's going to die (assuming you don't just look up a walk-through or something). This leads to massive impacts and consequences to your choices. If you favor someone and by extension scorn someone else, but the person that you scorn is the one that survives, that's a pretty big consequence, since you pretty much have two less friends.

I feel too many people feel that choices need to impact events in the story, however i feel that in this game is all about people and human nature and so on, and thus the events themselves are nowhere near as important as the changes that the relationships undergo as a result. But that's just my opinion anyways. I do agree that if they try a similar thing with Clem again it will likely cheapen season 1, But i suspect its not going to turn out the way we are predicting it, at least looking at season 1, especially because from episodes 1-3 i would have never called that it would have ended like this.

I understand why you feel that way. And true, you can´t expect every choice to make a diffrence. It´s fine if some choices only impact your relationship with others. That´s completely acceptable.

But take for example the arm chopping thing. No matter your opinion, you simply can not deny that that choice wasn´t relationshippy(that´s a word, right?) in nature. I expect choices like that to make SOME kind of diffrence in the end.
Yet none of them did. Not a single one leads to a diffrent outcome in the end. Lee´s dead, Clemetine´s alone, Ben´s dead, Kenny´s MIA and Christa and Omid are presumably alive.

Choices like cutting off you arm, if you take Lilly with you or not, those are the choices you expect matter. And when they don´t, you can´t really blame people for being disappointed.

That's fair enough, and i can totally see why someone would be disappointed in that respect and i do agree that it would be nice to see a greater impact on such things in any future sequels.

 

[johnnnny guitar]

Absolutely brilliant I played the game from start to finish yesterday(Thank you Gabe) and I am just awe struck.
I played the first episode when it came out ages ago on PSN and I thought that was great but holy shit does the game just get darker and more intense not to mention better.
The water works were about to burst when Kenny sacrifice himself for Ben but boy was the dam overflowing when Clementine had to Shoot Lee.
I actually didn't mind the Cliffhanger ending as much as others did but I just hope they let you carry your saves over to season 2.

So in the end Fantastic game that stays good from start to finish (unlike the TV show which had a fantastic pilot then went downhill) great characters and moral dilemmas and easily one of the top games of this year and recent memory.

 

[Glasgow]

I will continue with the phrase, manly tears were shed. I liked the game very much but I don't see any reply value in it.