The whole "PCs aren't that expensive compared to consoles" argument

[Son of Makuta]

I'm definitely with the cheap PC games crowd here. I've never spent more than £15 on a game (exception: Battleforge, £19, but that's microtransaction stuff). Only two games have ever cost me £15, or indeed, more than a tenner. How? Steam, preowned stuff, yadda yadda. You also get more indie/freeware games on PC, although this is changing with the advent of XBLA and whatever the PS3 one's called.

I'd like to stick up for gaming laptops, actually. Now, they are more expensive, and you can't self-build, which is a pain. But I have no desk space at home, and in any case, the portability aspect is fantastic. My friends and I often have mini-LAN parties (two to four people) at uni, in people's rooms and whatnot. I looked around for the cheapest possible deal with the high specs I was after, and eventually settled on an Asus G51J-A1 from Btotech. Even with shipping it to the UK, it cost me £1050, a good price when you see what specs it has. Came with a free Razer Copperhead and everything.

When I've graduated, and am living in a house of my own, I'll have a proper PC. Until then, I'm sticking with this beauty. Using a gaming computer for everything has unexpected side benefits. I can run however many programs I want at the same time without a hitch of slowdown thanks to the i7-720QM (entry level or not, this thing is badass). I can watch movies, edit images and read web pages in crystal clear 1920x1080. And I can do this anywhere. The battery life is long enough for me to be able to use it in uninteresting lectures, doing work or playing Peggle. Great stuff.

Obligatory boast: yes, max settings. On everything. I turn the resolution down and AA off in Crysis, but otherwise it's Very High across the board if I so desire (currently experimenting with turning some stuff down to High, which seems to make no actual difference at 1280x720, and putting 2xAA on). Unreal Tournament 3 plays at a rock-solid glassy-smooth framerate at maximum-everything settings, which is pretty impressive for a laptop, even an expensive one.

But yeah, it mostly comes down to which types of games you prefer. FPSs, RTSs, certain RPGs and so on exist primarily on PC. Fighting games (sadly) prefer to live on consoles, along with sports games, which I couldn't care less about. Also, there are a lot of good PS3 exclusives by now. I'm not really tempted towards the 360 (all it has is GoW2/Halo 3, neither of which interest me that much as I can just get the originals for now) or the Wii (most Wii games inspire a solid 'meh' from me, and the console on the whole seems too gimmick-laden to inspire my respect). I want a PS3 though.

 

[Paradoxical]

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2x's the cost of a current gen console is 'more expensive'

Plus, if you spent $500 back when the consoles were first released, you have an old computer. I really don't get why people make up this PC price stuff.
Being able to play Crysis isn't a big deal, it has lower minimal requirements than new console games.

If anyone can link a place that I can buy a gaming computer for the price of a console, I will be shocked.

Let's see that computer run Assassins Creed 2 and be 3 years old, I will eat my shoes if anyone can prove it.

Damn, I gotta learn to stop this double quoting people thing.

Hmm, my PC is about 5 years old, only the graphics card and CPU having been updated and it can run Assassin's Creed 2 at 1600x1050 res at almost maxed graphics (at least 2+ on every setting with 3-4 on the ones that go that high) with no lags. The CPU was upgraded as it was less than 2.0GHz and my PC was having trouble running most of the games and the graphics card was updated due to my PC melting it. both of these upgrades were done at least 3 years ago and I have been playing extensively since (Crysis, Modern Warfare 1&2, Tom Clancy's HAWX, Fallout 3, TES IV Oblivion, the list goes on).

Graphics card - NVidia GeForce 8600GT 256MB
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 XT Dual Core Processor 5600+ 2.81GHz

Enjoy the shoes.

 

[pneuvo]

Hey, anybody that likes consoles, great. Enjoy! They are cheaper and have some cool features. I own a couple myself.

For me, the amount of time I spend gaming, $2000 for a PC doesn't seem like much more per hour than $300 for a console. Still pretty cheap entertainment, by my standards. I would still have a PC even if I did all gaming on a console. No one seems to count the price of the TV into the cost of a console cuz they would have that anyway.

There are a couple of things that upset me:
1) Console companies want to kill PC gaming.
2) Making PC games compatible with consoles screws them up.

But those would each be worthy of a separate thread, so nevermind that.

 

[Wolfram23]

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2x's the cost of a current gen console is 'more expensive'

Plus, if you spent $500 back when the consoles were first released, you have an old computer. I really don't get why people make up this PC price stuff.
Being able to play Crysis isn't a big deal, it has lower minimal requirements than new console games.

If anyone can link a place that I can buy a gaming computer for the price of a console, I will be shocked.

Let's see that computer run Assassins Creed 2 and be 3 years old, I will eat my shoes if anyone can prove it.

Damn, I gotta learn to stop this double quoting people thing.

Hmm, my PC is about 5 years old, only the graphics card and CPU having been updated and it can run Assassin's Creed 2 at 1600x1050 res at almost maxed graphics (at least 2+ on every setting with 3-4 on the ones that go that high) with no lags. The CPU was upgraded as it was less than 2.0GHz and my PC was having trouble running most of the games and the graphics card was updated due to my PC melting it. both of these upgrades were done at least 3 years ago and I have been playing extensively since (Crysis, Modern Warfare 1&2, Tom Clancy's HAWX, Fallout 3, TES IV Oblivion, the list goes on).

Graphics card - NVidia GeForce 8600GT 256MB
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 XT Dual Core Processor 5600+ 2.81GHz

Enjoy the shoes.

Uhh dude my last video card was an 8600GT which I melted. And I would never boast it can play games at high settings. Medium, sure. Fallout 3 and Oblivion you have to reduce their draw distances a lot on objects to keep decent frame rates in the open world. In the closed environments it faires a lot better tho. I also played Dirt and GRID with it (Dirt is the one that killed it lol) and both those games had ok settings but low shading to keep fps up. Now, don't misunderstand me here because it's totally playable on probably every game out there right now, but it is not even close to able to play max settings on "benchmark" games like Crysis.

A lot of people have been pointing out they have this $500/$600/$700 dollar budget system and it plays everything. Yea, I bet it does and it does a lot more and that's great and all. BUT! You're not playing on very good graphical settings more often than not, and certainly to my eyes games would actually look better on a PS3 when all the games are perfectly optimized for the system. You can't convince me that those budget systems look prettier than God of War 3 or Final Fantasy 13 settings. And when the gaming gets crazy, they tend to drop the ball and stutter with framerates in the 10-20 range.

I'll say it again, PCs are fantastic and offer a lot of versatility and you can usually skim by at least playing most games. But if you want a silky smooth experience you either need a high end rig like the $1000 I posted, or a console.

The point then is that the console is easy and way cheaper. It's so simple a child could hook one up, but never build a high end gaming rig - he'd have to purchase it pre built for at least several hundred dollars more.

Finally, if you're really a gamer, it shouldn't be which to get - PC or console - you should have both. Why? Because for one, consoles have a huge amount of support and developers producing really great exclusive games. Secondly, mouse and keyboard is great but I'd never want to use it for action games like God of War or sports games like NHL 10 or FIFA. Yes, yes you can get a gamepad on PC, but you can also get a mouse on console (I have one for my PS3 and it's great fun in MW2).

 

[saejox]

i bought a Wii for $250, spent thousands of dolars on my PCs.
i rue the day i bought the wii.
i like to buy something expensive and useful than a cheap piece of shit that does nothing i want.

 

[UberNoodle]

Getting a kick ass PC is expensive. So is buying a kick ass console. But it is a grave exaggeration that a kick ass PC can be cheaper than a console. Same price: perhaps. However such a cheap PC is a gimped PC. I mean this in the sense that it has to be compromised. A PC is an investment, whereas a console is not. From building my PCs I agree that you can make a powerful one cheaply but what is sacrificed are many aspects that PCs benefit greatly from in the long term.

Also, one 'debating technique' that I don't like is the whole 'you paid THAT MUCH? I got the same/equivalent part for half that price!'. Really? link please! Share your source. I know very well that there are many great PC hardware deals to be found, but the operate word is 'found', and perhaps it's just me, but when examining the meaning of 'expense', I factor in the effort to compare prices, shop around, and click back and forth for hours on the Net.

The argument that a PC doesn't need to be a thousand dollars or more is entirely true. Such PCs are prebuilt, full of features you'll either uninstall or never use, and have a well known lable. The major issues that attract people to console and drive them away from PCs are less to do with price and more to do with convenience, simplicity and reliability.

When I say reliability, I am talking about performance. Ever PC gamer knows the feeling of installing a game and wishing that there was more juice under the hood. Recommended Settings options will usually give a smooth game, but every PC gamer tweaks. You tweak because the option is there, like the Fruit of KNowledge was there for Adam and Eve. You can resist.

And that also encompasses the idea of simplicity and convenience, but also less common but still far too often mysterious errors for which only a few hours in the forums can fix. A PC is used for so many things clashes happen. Every PC user that uses their PC for more than just 'instruction manual' activities has had these experiences.

So, to buy a console or PC is a complicated issue, but many PC gamers imply that it is only the price. Perhaps this is because they are used to the extraneous, and often timeconsuming matters that surround their platform. MOst console players would rather not delve under the hood. They want relative ease, like turning on a TV and changing channels. Whereas on PC, every nth reboot, something strange occurs that requires some fiddling - famously, MS will update something that inadvertently shatters a fragile balance elsewhere, and you end up reinstalling some stuff. It's not common, but the console use mentality is the 'appliance user' mentality. They want to avoid the possibility of such problems as best they can.

Sadly though, even consoles are losing these traits of convenience, simplicity, consistancy and reliabilty.

I bought a $600 laptop I can play new games on med/low settings just fine (consoles are set to med settings compared to PC most of the time) pop in a disk wait five minutes, and play without having to worry about disk swapping. If you're going to tell me that's not convenient and simple, then you're going to lie.

If you're going to tell me that this lazy response of yours is all you can come up with, then you are lying to yourself. It was a lovely story though. I will be sure to bind it and put in on my bookshelf.

 

[Katana314]

Yeah, Xzi is in fact correct; beyond the fact that a $500-$600 self-built CAN run most good games on full settings pretty well, you could even upgrade an existing computer for less than the price of a Wii, and make it a full gaming computer.

That said, there are some graphics benefits to consoles as well. I have to say as a PC player, there are games of 'spectacle' like God of War 3 or Little Big Planet that look much better than what I've expected of a PC. Perhaps it's because of cheap tricks like upscaling HD, or having a specific hardware set, but if it works then so be it.

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

meh i can't be bothered upgrading all the time the only thing i use my pc for is Guild Wars and Dawn of War. The rest is down to my PS3

 

[henno13]

I've seen some decent pre-built PCs at around £400. The expensive, and defiantly the best quality computers are built by the user. As much as I would love to, I don't have the money to build a PC, money is hard to come by when you're 15. The PC that I used to play every game I had (BF2, Source engine games) was becoming very dated. So I decided to get a PS3. Now my games are useless becasue I don't have a PC that can run them anymore.

 

[UberNoodle]

Getting a kick ass PC is expensive. So is buying a kick ass console. But it is a grave exaggeration that a kick ass PC can be cheaper than a console. Same price: perhaps. However such a cheap PC is a gimped PC. I mean this in the sense that it has to be compromised. A PC is an investment, whereas a console is not. From building my PCs I agree that you can make a powerful one cheaply but what is sacrificed are many aspects that PCs benefit greatly from in the long term.

Also, one 'debating technique' that I don't like is the whole 'you paid THAT MUCH? I got the same/equivalent part for half that price!'. Really? link please! Share your source. I know very well that there are many great PC hardware deals to be found, but the operate word is 'found', and perhaps it's just me, but when examining the meaning of 'expense', I factor in the effort to compare prices, shop around, and click back and forth for hours on the Net.

The argument that a PC doesn't need to be a thousand dollars or more is entirely true. Such PCs are prebuilt, full of features you'll either uninstall or never use, and have a well known lable. The major issues that attract people to console and drive them away from PCs are less to do with price and more to do with convenience, simplicity and reliability.

When I say reliability, I am talking about performance. Ever PC gamer knows the feeling of installing a game and wishing that there was more juice under the hood. Recommended Settings options will usually give a smooth game, but every PC gamer tweaks. You tweak because the option is there, like the Fruit of KNowledge was there for Adam and Eve. You can't resist.

And that also encompasses the idea of simplicity and convenience, but also less common but still far too often mysterious errors for which only a few hours in the forums can fix. A PC is used for so many things clashes happen. Every PC user that uses their PC for more than just 'instruction manual' activities has had these experiences.

So, to buy a console or PC is a complicated issue, but many PC gamers imply that it is only the price. Perhaps this is because they are used to the extraneous, and often timeconsuming matters that surround their platform. MOst console players would rather not delve under the hood. They want relative ease, like turning on a TV and changing channels. Whereas on PC, every nth reboot, something strange occurs that requires some fiddling - famously, MS will update something that inadvertently shatters a fragile balance elsewhere, and you end up reinstalling some stuff. It's not common, but the console use mentality is the 'appliance user' mentality. They want to avoid the possibility of such problems as best they can.

Sadly though, even consoles are losing these traits of convenience, simplicity, consistancy and reliabilty.

I bought a $600 laptop I can play new games on med/low settings just fine (consoles are set to med settings compared to PC most of the time) pop in a disk wait five minutes, and play without having to worry about disk swapping. If you're going to tell me that's not convenient and simple, then you're going to lie.

If you're going to tell me that this lazy response of yours is all you can come up with, then you are lying to yourself. It was a lovely story though. I will be sure to bind it and put in on my bookshelf.

yeah, because proving your wrong is "lazy"

Obviously you can't read. Where did you prove me wrong? It is ironic that so many that flock to the Web, which is still mostly a text based medium, have difficulty comprehending the written word. But if you can show me - "prove me wrong", if you will - how PCs have entirely less capacity to: have mysterious problems, behave in unexpected ways, run less than efficiently and at times require tinkering; than consoles, then go ahead. That would be addressing my post. And then you could also prove me 'wrong' by showing me how console gamers do NOT in fact want a simple, appliance-like user experience.

 

[John Amutenya]

I build computers for a living, I rarely replace Nvidia cards due to failure outside of DOA parts. Most of the time they are replaced when they are getting out of date. I've seen a very large majority of ATI's come back due to complete failure for very minor reasons, like a fan that isn't quite up to full efficiency with dust. I only recommend people that buy them these days get aftermarket cooling on them unless they want to be back within the next few months.

And Nvidia having a problem frying a single type of chipset doesn't stain their entire track record.

Tell that to my GTX 260

Seriously, though, what sorts of failure rates have you seen on the last couple generations of Radeons (4000-5000)? I'm sure I build less than you do, but all of the 4 (2x 4870, 4890, 5850) that I've installed are still going strong.

4000's I didn't see abnormal rates of replacement outside of improper care, the 5000's were horrific though, I am still not sure if it was the design of the heatsink/casing or the fans they used but they had a tendancy to drop like flies 6 months in, if yours is still going you can feel lucky. A good case for better cooling can help avoid this as well. I do deal with alot of business machines in more restrictive half height desktop cases. Not nessisarily the kind of case a gamer would use.

Seriously, I have no idea what you are talking about, We have a 4870, 5770, 2x 4770 and my friend has a 5850 oc to 900 core with the stock cooler and they all run perfectly. the gtx480/470 run at 95c and use more power than a 5970 and you are telling me ati runs hotter? and you shouldnt be putting a high end card in a half height case. See what happens to a 480 if you put it in a dusty cramped case, and tell your customers to clean the PCs once in a while.

I have a few friends who had nvidia cards. a 9600gt and a gts520 were killed by NVs drivers stopping the fans.

I gues you can say the cost of PC and console gaming depends on the TV or Pc you already have in your house. BUT a dual shock 3 or a 360 pad goes for about 40-50, games are 60, xbox live sub, DLC, oh and don't forget the RROD

 

[Paradoxical]

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2x's the cost of a current gen console is 'more expensive'

Plus, if you spent $500 back when the consoles were first released, you have an old computer. I really don't get why people make up this PC price stuff.
Being able to play Crysis isn't a big deal, it has lower minimal requirements than new console games.

If anyone can link a place that I can buy a gaming computer for the price of a console, I will be shocked.

Let's see that computer run Assassins Creed 2 and be 3 years old, I will eat my shoes if anyone can prove it.

Damn, I gotta learn to stop this double quoting people thing.

Hmm, my PC is about 5 years old, only the graphics card and CPU having been updated and it can run Assassin's Creed 2 at 1600x1050 res at almost maxed graphics (at least 2+ on every setting with 3-4 on the ones that go that high) with no lags. The CPU was upgraded as it was less than 2.0GHz and my PC was having trouble running most of the games and the graphics card was updated due to my PC melting it. both of these upgrades were done at least 3 years ago and I have been playing extensively since (Crysis, Modern Warfare 1&2, Tom Clancy's HAWX, Fallout 3, TES IV Oblivion, the list goes on).

Graphics card - NVidia GeForce 8600GT 256MB
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 XT Dual Core Processor 5600+ 2.81GHz

Enjoy the shoes.

Uhh dude my last video card was an 8600GT which I melted. And I would never boast it can play games at high settings. Medium, sure. Fallout 3 and Oblivion you have to reduce their draw distances a lot on objects to keep decent frame rates in the open world. In the closed environments it faires a lot better tho. I also played Dirt and GRID with it (Dirt is the one that killed it lol) and both those games had ok settings but low shading to keep fps up. Now, don't misunderstand me here because it's totally playable on probably every game out there right now, but it is not even close to able to play max settings on "benchmark" games like Crysis.

A lot of people have been pointing out they have this $500/$600/$700 dollar budget system and it plays everything. Yea, I bet it does and it does a lot more and that's great and all. BUT! You're not playing on very good graphical settings more often than not, and certainly to my eyes games would actually look better on a PS3 when all the games are perfectly optimized for the system. You can't convince me that those budget systems look prettier than God of War 3 or Final Fantasy 13 settings. And when the gaming gets crazy, they tend to drop the ball and stutter with framerates in the 10-20 range.

I'll say it again, PCs are fantastic and offer a lot of versatility and you can usually skim by at least playing most games. But if you want a silky smooth experience you either need a high end rig like the $1000 I posted, or a console.

The point then is that the console is easy and way cheaper. It's so simple a child could hook one up, but never build a high end gaming rig - he'd have to purchase it pre built for at least several hundred dollars more.

Finally, if you're really a gamer, it shouldn't be which to get - PC or console - you should have both. Why? Because for one, consoles have a huge amount of support and developers producing really great exclusive games. Secondly, mouse and keyboard is great but I'd never want to use it for action games like God of War or sports games like NHL 10 or FIFA. Yes, yes you can get a gamepad on PC, but you can also get a mouse on console (I have one for my PS3 and it's great fun in MW2).

I'd never hope to come anywhere near to max on Crysis (besides, that's DX10 only and I'm running XP) with my 8600GT i can get up to Low-Med with and acceptable framerate and Med-High with a slightly lower (but still -barely- playable framerate) but it can play MW2 at 1600x1050 with all settings MAXED except for AA and Soften Smoke Edges (because it sucks when it comes to smoke) and a 60+ framerate. With Oblivion and Fallout 3 I could play them on decent settings with no problem at all. Sure, it's not the best card, but it was bought 2nd-hand, cheaply and still runs most games on at least medium settings. I mean, I can get a card like this for about NZ$60 second hand to get a graphics boost whereas over here PS3s are still selling for NZ$500+ new. As for when the gaming gets crazy? I took on every single guard in the city that I could find on Creed 2, just for the heck of it (there were at LEAST 20 guards attacking me, along with 40+ bystanders) without lowering my settings at all, the framerate may have dropped by 1 or 2 but it was still running buttery smooth.

Also, I DO have a PC and a console... a PS2 (don't judge me!) I use it quite infrequently use it though as I enjoy the control scheme for PC more and I have a 360 Controller for my PC so I can use a controller if I wish. As for the newer consoles? My parents disallow me from buying them, I only got the PS2 after both the PS3 and 360 had launched.

On the complexity of PCs; agreed consoles are easier, but I helped my Dad (Who works in communications repair and is the person that built our previous one) to build this newer one! I'm 14 and all it would take is a bit of research (maybe 1/2 an hour) and I could put the thing together myself!

Side Note: Sober Thal was asking if a 3-year-old PC can run AC2, mine can with decent settings and the majority of it was put together almost 5 years ago

I do love console gaming, It's just that i barely get a chance to play on the newer consoles, I'm stuck with my old PS2 (and I even end up using THAT quite a bit whenever the CPU fan starts getting to me). Actually I would probably enjoy playing a console even more for the time being as my CPU fan has developed an annoying habit of making a whining-grinding noise >_>.


Bonus advice: Quad Core CPUs aren't really worth it right now, Dual cores still work perfect and the DDR2 ram is somewhat cheaper than DDR3.

 

[John Amutenya]

3 years ago we had core i7 and 8800gtx/gt. So yes a a 3yr old pc can play AC2 at probly 2x rez the consoles do. Have you played MW2 on a console? It looks like shit. consoles cant even reach their advertised HD resolution while my 4870 can run it at 1920x1080 with 4xAA at almost 100fps.

I do have a 360, which i got for Forza3. gonna sell it and get a 5850 cuz every other game just doesn't look that good.

 

[UberNoodle]

Of course PCs require a little more occasional maintenance, but like anything else, this is both positive and negative in some respects. With this "tinkering" comes the ability to prevent general problems which still plague consoles. Such as HDD fragmentation/corruption and heat dissipation. I refer you to two simple programs which will do the job of keeping any PC healthy for years to come: http://www.avast.com/index and http://www.diskeeper.com/

One is free, the other isn't. But it's precisely the unavailability of these types of programs which make consoles far more vulnerable to issues which might put you out $300+ for no real reason. One part of your PC's hardware stops working, you replace it. One item of software stops working, you install something else. One part of a console's hardware stops working, or some of its software becomes corrupted and you have to throw out the whole thing if your warranty is expired. Which is just another issue, as the majority of my PC hardware has a lifetime warranty on it, but I won't get into that.

Mate, I spend hours tinkering on my PC. I enjoy it, and I love the things that it allows me to do. Both those programs, I use. Avast is a godsend with none of the awfulness that come with Norton or Mcafee's solutions. And, I fully agree with what you are saying here, and thanks for bringing it up. It is interesting to discuss these two points of view when making a purchase.

Honestly, console buyers do not, or until this generation do not, buy a console with the idea that it will mess up and have to be salvaged. Until this generation, consoles were much hardier and reliable. But this is the first to really have those problems to any unacceptable extent. Console buyers can't be faulted for assuming an appliance to work like one. And that is what consoles are - appliances.

PC gamers are generally people that look for challenges in their hardware. They tinker and tweak and they love doing so. PC gamers are for the most part, real ethusiasts, like AV enthusiasts on a neverending quest for the greatest home theatre system. Console gamers are also enthusiasts but in a very different way. They generally don't want to know what's happening under the hood of their consoles. They expect it to turn on at the push of a button, and work the same way every time.

I don't think it is realistic to assume that even half the users of computers these days would know what to do if a real catastrophe happened with their PC. When people ask me to fix their 'broken' systems, there is a 80% chance that it is just bogged down with rubbish in the system tray, has never been defragged, and has 5% left on C drive because they never realised where My Documents goes.

So I agree with you on everything you said, but I think we are not talking about the same thing. Console attract those people who jam up their PCs with years of misuse. Such people just want a machine that does what the box and commercials said it would. They are often affraid to know more. I see their eyes glaze over. Putting together a PC gaming rig is beyond them, by far.

The only people that this thread will benefit are those console gamers who are tech savvy enough. Believe me when I say that using the Net and playing games does not qualify you for the leap in faith required to make that first PC rig. I think that many experienced PC users forget that fear.