No plot doesn't mean bad plot. Bland plot doesn't mean bad plot. Gears of War? totally average, but the characterization made the bland plot kind of fun. Katamari really doesn't have a plot either, it just kind of happens. And convoluted doesn't always mean bad either, FFVIII was pretty hard to follow when I looked back at it, but when I was playing it was fun as hell. Likewise Xenogears. What kills me in a plot is when they kill the established setting or characters. MGSII, in my opinion wins worst plot ever, closely pursued by its obnoxious friend Devil May Cry II, and finally, FFVII. Why MGSII, it's convoluted gives us an unsympathetic whiny bastard instead of the character we know, and pretty much comes out of left field with most of the explanation at the end. DMCII Changed Dante from a wise-cracking smart-ass into a near-mute every-hero and took away our dear Trish from the first game and instead of developing her gives us ... someone entirely different; DMCII fails not for not having a plot, but not having one and trying so hard to make one that it all kind of turns into shit soup. And finally FFVII fails because of Cloud. Do I even need to explain? A guy with false memories and absolutely no apparent reason to do anything, the only thing I liked about it was the amount of smut about tifa that resulted and Sephiroth. At least in VIII and X, most of the characters were likable.