The "you knew it would be like this" argument (D3 related, but not only)

[Bat Vader]

I think gamers have every right to complain about this.

But you aren't telling Blizzard that this shit won't stand if you go and buy the game anyway.

It's like the whole boycott thing. If you hate the way a game is implemented, then don't buy the game. Don't give them your money.

"We hate DRM, but we're giving you our money anyway!" doesn't exactly help the situation.

And no, this doesn't mean you should pirate it either, because that justifies it for them.

I agree with you one hundred percent. I was really looking forward to Diablo III. I had the Collector's Edition pre-ordered. When I found out that Diablo III was going be always online I swiftly cancelled my pre-order. I doubt that really did anything but at least I know Blizzard did not get my money and that is all I care about.

 

[Doom-Slayer]

-snip-

My take. They have no right to complain about the DRM being included. It'll be written on the box, if they didn't like it, they shouldn't of bought the game.

The game not working because of overlaoded servers? Ya they havea right to complain, but in the end it was inevitable. The game is like the fastest selling PC game ever, broke numerous records with preorders, so even if Blizzard went ahead and DID go all out crazy and try to prepare, it was futile.And at the end of the day, after this release period, they will never ever need that much bandwidth again, so even if they did go all out, it would be a total waste of money in the end. So they did the sensible thing, bear with it and let it pass.

Is this the customers problem? Normally Id say no, but in this case it is. Its simple common sense that this was going to happen, maybe not to this extent but peopel SHOULD have know this was goign to happen at least to some degree. Blizzard even said to expect delays in loggin on before the game went live.

Overall it just annoys me how people are like "I CANT PLAY THIS GAME OMG ITS A WASTE OF 60 DOLALRS". Like seriously? Wait a week and itll be solved...this is Diablo after all, dont people play these games for freaking ages and ages? You know like years?

tl;dr Made out to be a way bigger problem than it is. Should be more informed and less entitled. No BLizzard did not screw up, it was unavoidable.

Because these people are customers who are saying "I was all set to buy this, but because you added in DRM, you did not get my money." If enough people do that, Blizzard will listen. Its the entire point of voting with your wallet.

Not a sweet chance in hell. The game has broke multiple sales records already and I bet you itll be like Modern warfare 2(?) boycotts all over again. People wills "boycott it" 2 days later they'll be playing like everyone else. The reason? This issue funny enough ISNT permanent. Give it a short time and server traffic will stabilize and the problems will go away, and I bet you in a year people wont even remember this.

 

[Poster1234]

I think gamers have every right to complain about this.

But you aren't telling Blizzard that this shit won't stand if you go and buy the game anyway.

It's like the whole boycott thing. If you hate the way a game is implemented, then don't buy the game. Don't give them your money.

"We hate DRM, but we're giving you our money anyway!" doesn't exactly help the situation.

And no, this doesn't mean you should pirate it either, because that justifies it for them.

I disagree with this . Why would blizzard listen to someone that isn't their customer? I mean i could ***** about their product , but unless i am an actual customer why should they give a shit . Now if people who actually bought the game complains then they would be more open to lend an ear . Because blizzard are dealing with people that actually supported them and want them to continue the support .

Capcha : whatever

I'm sorry, but I believe you're mistaken. Indeed, an unsatified consumer has weight in, say, WOW, because if he isn't satified, he'll end up cancelling his subscription. Now, D3, on the other hand, is more of a one-time purchase. Sure, the AH will be an important revenue stream, but I don't think it'll be important enough to have them worry about people bitching about the DRM, since these people probably would'nt have used the AH in the first place.
So, I think it'll be more efficient to have people say : you'll get my fifty euros the day I can play offline.
Also, When has Battle.net ever been good ? I mean, it may be simply be because I usually play singleplayer, but this "service" has never been anything but a pain to get through for as long as I've known it. I mean, it is a pain to play Stacraft 1 with my friends to this day, because of the lack of LAN, there is lag in SC2 tournaments where the opponents are five feets away from each other. The one and only good example I know is D2 : it had LAN.

 

[krazykidd]

I think gamers have every right to complain about this.

But you aren't telling Blizzard that this shit won't stand if you go and buy the game anyway.

It's like the whole boycott thing. If you hate the way a game is implemented, then don't buy the game. Don't give them your money.

"We hate DRM, but we're giving you our money anyway!" doesn't exactly help the situation.

And no, this doesn't mean you should pirate it either, because that justifies it for them.

I disagree with this . Why would blizzard listen to someone that isn't their customer? I mean i could ***** about their product , but unless i am an actual customer why should they give a shit . Now if people who actually bought the game complains then they would be more open to lend an ear . Because blizzard are dealing with people that actually supported them and want them to continue the support .

Capcha : whatever

I'm sorry, but I believe you're mistaken. Indeed, an unsatified consumer has weight in, say, WOW, because if he isn't satified, he'll end up cancelling his subscription. Now, D3, on the other hand, is more of a one-time purchase. Sure, the AH will be an important revenue stream, but I don't think it'll be important enough to have them worry about people bitching about the DRM, since these people probably would'nt have used the AH in the first place.
So, I think it'll be more efficient to have people say : you'll get my fifty euros the day I can play offline.
Also, When has Battle.net ever been good ? I mean, it may be simply be because I usually play singleplayer, but this "service" has never been anything but a pain to get through for as long as I've known it. I mean, it is a pain to play Stacraft 1 with my friends to this day, because of the lack of LAN, there is lag in SC2 tournaments where the opponents are five feets away from each other. The one and only good example I know is D2 : it had LAN.

The thing is . As a company they want to keep players buying their games . Be it a one time purchase or subscription . You have to look at the future and not just the present . In a day and age where production costs for games are so high and competition is so fierce , keeping people with you is equally if not more important than the sales they just got . If people who actually bought Diablo 3 didn't like it and are having problems , they won't go back to buy the expansion or even worst they wouldn't buy another game from blizzard . Unsatisfied customer take main priority since those customer are needed to ensure the future of their business .

Okay a lot of people didn't buy the game . But for those that did , it's important to keep them with bliszzard , thus their voice carry more weight . Blizzard needs them to buy expansions and future games . Because it is those people who have bought the game , who has more insight , and that will be getting more people to turn towards their company . They will invite their friends and family and people they know . They will talk about it in a good light , enticing people to join them , helping blizzards fanbase grow .

On the flipside if their customers are insatisfied , they would warn others to stay away and blizzards fanbase will shrink. Sure they did make money on their latest game , but thats gone and past , it is the future that they should worry about .

 

[CardinalPiggles]

I think gamers have every right to complain about this.

But you aren't telling Blizzard that this shit won't stand if you go and buy the game anyway.

It's like the whole boycott thing. If you hate the way a game is implemented, then don't buy the game. Don't give them your money.

"We hate DRM, but we're giving you our money anyway!" doesn't exactly help the situation.

And no, this doesn't mean you should pirate it either, because that justifies it for them.

/thread right here.

If you went to a burger place and they said we need to spit in your burger, you wouldn't buy it and then complain would you? Even if it was the best burger place in town.

How many times must people mention the vote with your wallet initiative before other people listen.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I could get behind the people complaining about ME3 because you could argue that they didn't know that they would get a spectacularly shit ending and were in fact promised, at the very least, multiple shit endings.

However, in the case of Diablo III, if they didn't know about the DRM it's their fault for investing money into something without researching it in the slightest. We've known for years that it would be always online. I didn't mind intitially since I felt they have a fair point, but now the people complaining about the DRM are really starting to shit me. I was planning to play D3 online anyway. People who want to tell me I'm a shit eating retard for supporting Blizzard's supposedly evil, draconian measures can fuck right off. You know what: I hope this does set the bar. I hope from this day forward every game that is made is online only. Maybe then you'll find something that actually matters to get angry about and get off my case for not sharing your fury in something so inconsequential.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Overall it just annoys me how people are like "I CANT PLAY THIS GAME OMG ITS A WASTE OF 60 DOLALRS". Like seriously? Wait a week and itll be solved...this is Diablo after all, dont people play these games for freaking ages and ages? You know like years?

It didn't take a week. It took about 15 hours. That's what we're talking about here. Not that it wasn't a kick in the nuts for people who were planning on playing right at midnight, but life's just cruel sometimes.

For the people who can't play because of their shitbox ISP or because their connection to Blizzard's servers is naff because they live in the fucking wilds of Bulgaria or something...I feel genuinely bad for those folks. There really SHOULD have been an offline mode.

 

[black_knight1337]

Eh, it didn't matter to me that much. I mean, sure there are people who were SUPER upset that they couldn't get on Diablo 3 on launch day.

I think those people lead sad, little, pathetic lives.

"Oh NO, a video game I paid for doesn't work the moment I install it because the servers are overloaded."

Sure, you could get incensed about that, and I will even say that it's justified. But in the long run, it's just a stupid thing to be upset about. They fixed it in one day, and it's very unlikely to happen again.

I think people should do what I do when the servers on a game are down: Do anything else. Play one of your likely 50 other games. Play a free game online. Watch Youtube or Netflix. Read a book. Watch TV. Go Exercise. I mean there are a million other things you could be doing.

Does it suck that your game doesn't work day one? Sure. But it's not worth getting super upset about in my book. Now if was a week from now, yeah, I'd say your anger was reasonable. But it's not. It was Day one server issues, and as much as people go on about how "Oh it SHOULD work day one" yadda yadda, the reality is that Day one server instability is a part of the online gaming world and there really isn't anything that you or anyone else is gonna do by complaining about it.

and give this guy a fucking medal. One of the few people using some common sense with this issue. Everyone knew that it required the internet. Even if you've been avoiding all of the coverage on it the box says it requires an internet connection 5 times. Plus there's the fact that buy purchasing the product you are presumed to have already read the eula which I can safely presume would have the internet requirement in there. Seriously people pretty much have no right to complain about something that they already knew was going to happen. Diablo 2 had the exact same issue on launch so why would you expect Diablo 3 to be any different. It would be incredibly stupid business practice if Blizzard got servers powerful enough to handle launch day loads. Their only going to be using that for a day per release, if that's not a wasted investment than I don't know what is.

 

[lapan]

And no, this doesn't mean you should pirate it either, because that justifies it for them.

What stops them from just lumping you together with them anyways? It's not like they get a notification for everyone that doesnt buy a game because of drm. Piracy is always the easiest scapegoat for them.

 

[Weaver]

I do feel a lot of the people really into the gaming scene (ie, everyone on here) forget there's a bunch of people who don't follow the politics of it at all. Maybe 35 year old Joe took his kid to the game store and saw diablo 3 behind the desk. Remembering the fun of Diablo 2 in his university days 12 years ago asks the shopkeep for a copy.

This is where I feel a lot of people miss the issue "IT SAYS IT NEEDS DA INTERNET ON THE BOX! OIDSIOJFSDIOf!!!"

Yes, it does. How many times have I bought a boxed game and not gotten to actually read the fucking fine print on the back? When it's behind the desk, you basically ask for a copy. They take your credit card, jam it in a bag and send you on your way. You don't get (or at least I never have) the opportunity to actually read the system requirements before paying.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I do feel a lot of the people really into the gaming scene (ie, everyone on here) forget there's a bunch of people who don't follow the politics of it at all. Maybe 35 year old Joe took his kid to the game store and saw diablo 3 behind the desk. Remembering the fun of Diablo 2 in his university days 12 years ago asks the shopkeep for a copy.

This is where I feel a lot of people miss the issue "IT SAYS IT NEEDS DA INTERNET ON THE BOX! OIDSIOJFSDIOf!!!"

Yes, it does. How many times have I bought a boxed game and not gotten to actually read the fucking fine print on the back? When it's behind the desk, you basically ask for a copy. They take your credit card, jam it in a bag and send you on your way. You don't get (or at least I never have) the opportunity to actually read the system requirements before paying.

What if your PC didn't meet the system requirements? Would it also be an act of sinister malfeasance on the part of the company?

I don't really want to pillory anyone who didn't realize they were buying an online only game, because shit happens and compassion is free, but it's more of a "shit, that's too bad, tough luck" scenario than a "U WUZ ROBBED" one.

 

[Weaver]

I do feel a lot of the people really into the gaming scene (ie, everyone on here) forget there's a bunch of people who don't follow the politics of it at all. Maybe 35 year old Joe took his kid to the game store and saw diablo 3 behind the desk. Remembering the fun of Diablo 2 in his university days 12 years ago asks the shopkeep for a copy.

This is where I feel a lot of people miss the issue "IT SAYS IT NEEDS DA INTERNET ON THE BOX! OIDSIOJFSDIOf!!!"

Yes, it does. How many times have I bought a boxed game and not gotten to actually read the fucking fine print on the back? When it's behind the desk, you basically ask for a copy. They take your credit card, jam it in a bag and send you on your way. You don't get (or at least I never have) the opportunity to actually read the system requirements before paying.

What if your PC didn't meet the system requirements? Would it also be an act of sinister malfeasance on the part of the company?

I don't really want to pillory anyone who didn't realize they were buying an online only game, because shit happens and compassion is free, but it's more of a "shit, that's too bad, tough luck" scenario than a "U WUZ ROBBED" one.

No no, you couldn't chalk up not meeting system reqs to malevolence on the part of Blizzard. I'm just trying to exemplify that when people state "You knew what you were getting into with the online DRM when you bought it" isn't necessarily true for all consumers of the product.

I'd agree that 35 year old Joe in my example is being a pretty irresponsible consumer, but stuff like that happens. I know a few people who buy maybe a game every 3 or 4 years. They don't have their finger on the pulse of what's happening with what. They just say "Hey, I really liked battlefield 1942, maybe I'll get battlefield bad company 2."

 

[Doom-Slayer]

I do feel a lot of the people really into the gaming scene (ie, everyone on here) forget there's a bunch of people who don't follow the politics of it at all. Maybe 35 year old Joe took his kid to the game store and saw diablo 3 behind the desk. Remembering the fun of Diablo 2 in his university days 12 years ago asks the shopkeep for a copy.

This is where I feel a lot of people miss the issue "IT SAYS IT NEEDS DA INTERNET ON THE BOX! OIDSIOJFSDIOf!!!"

Yes, it does. How many times have I bought a boxed game and not gotten to actually read the fucking fine print on the back? When it's behind the desk, you basically ask for a copy. They take your credit card, jam it in a bag and send you on your way. You don't get (or at least I never have) the opportunity to actually read the system requirements before paying.

At least where I shop, they arent behind a counter, the boxes are sitting on shelves with no games in them. Take a the box and check the back, take it up to the counter and pay and they get the game out for you. And also I check the requirements of every game I buy...normally to see if its GFWL or Steam, or if it requires authentication.

Also..yes..Im sure a lot of people dont follow the gaming scene, however a HUGE majority of people buying Diablo, by the very nature of the kind of game it is, will be gamers and will know whats going on.

And if someone goes in without reading the requirements, and takes it back because they dont like the online part, I fully support the stores right to say No to them.

I dont care if you're a random Joe Schmo buying a game, you read the product you are buying, this applies to every single thing you can buy. Read it, and make sure you are getting what you actually want.

tl;dr Ya it happens, normal people dont read the fine print. THEY SHOULD. And if they dont, too bad, its their own fault.

 

[artanis_neravar]

I've seen a lot of people, here and all over the internet, giving various justifications for why we should be ok with the D3 always-online thing, most of which were picked up and attacked by others (such as Jim Sterling and TotalBiscuit).
However, there is ONE argument no one ever attacks : the "you knew it'd be like this argument".
Now, the fact is, I knew about this for D3, and decided not to buy it because of it, but I cannot help but believe that SOME people will be buying D3 without having knowledge of it. I guess "needs an internet connexion" is written on the box, but that can mean a number of things nowdays.
My point is, just because we inform ourselves about upcoming game releases (well, I guess you do, at least a little, since you are on this website), doesn't mean everybody does.
In fact, I had this problem with Starcraft 2 WoL : I purposefully avoided any exposure to news related to this game, because I didn't want any spoilers, and ended up very shocked by the fact that I had to log in to play singleplayer.

Long story short : What's your take on the argument that gamers can't complain about certain features/problems in a game they bought because they knew this would happen when they paid for it ?

It is always the responsibility of the person buying a product to make sure they know everything they need to know before purchasing; You can't complain about buying a car and then having to pay for gas, so why should you be able to complain about an advertised feature in a video game?

The same idea applies for TOSs and EULAs, there is no case where you can sign a contract and then claim, "well I didn't read it" as an excuse as to why you have breached said contract, so why are gamers any different? What makes us so special that we don't have to abide by the same rules and practices that everyone else follows?

 

[Unsilenced]

You can complain about a shitty product feature even if you knew it was there. Just because it wasn't a deal-breaker for you doesn't mean you have to shut the fuck up and pretend to enjoy it.

Of course, I think the issue of "always needing internet" SHOULD be a deal breaker, but that's just, like, my opinion man.

 

[anthony87]

It really disturbs me that people can't play a single player game that they paid for, whenever they want to. Yet we still have people coming along and basically going "But....butbutbut....BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!"

 

[endnuen]

It's a perfectly valid argument.

If you throw your money after something without basic knowledge of what it is, then it's your own damn fault.

It's like complaining that your PC doesn't meet the system requirements.. You have no excuse for not knowing.

 

[Poster1234]

I've seen a lot of people, here and all over the internet, giving various justifications for why we should be ok with the D3 always-online thing, most of which were picked up and attacked by others (such as Jim Sterling and TotalBiscuit).
However, there is ONE argument no one ever attacks : the "you knew it'd be like this argument".
Now, the fact is, I knew about this for D3, and decided not to buy it because of it, but I cannot help but believe that SOME people will be buying D3 without having knowledge of it. I guess "needs an internet connexion" is written on the box, but that can mean a number of things nowdays.
My point is, just because we inform ourselves about upcoming game releases (well, I guess you do, at least a little, since you are on this website), doesn't mean everybody does.
In fact, I had this problem with Starcraft 2 WoL : I purposefully avoided any exposure to news related to this game, because I didn't want any spoilers, and ended up very shocked by the fact that I had to log in to play singleplayer.

Long story short : What's your take on the argument that gamers can't complain about certain features/problems in a game they bought because they knew this would happen when they paid for it ?

It is always the responsibility of the person buying a product to make sure they know everything they need to know before purchasing; You can't complain about buying a car and then having to pay for gas, so why should you be able to complain about an advertised feature in a video game?

The same idea applies for TOSs and EULAs, there is no case where you can sign a contract and then claim, "well I didn't read it" as an excuse as to why you have breached said contract, so why are gamers any different? What makes us so special that we don't have to abide by the same rules and practices that everyone else follows?

True, you expect someone who buys a car to implicitly agree to pay for the gas.
However, if you were to buy a car, only to have its engine explode five seconds later, you'd say you've just been scammed.
My main problem with TOSs and EULAs is that they are given for you to read during the installation. As in, after you've payed for the game. I find that to be dishonest.

 

[Dryk]

It relies on two assumptions: that people criticizing the game bought it (despite what TvTropes would have you believe, you don't have to own something to criticize it) and that buying the game constitutes a tacit endorsement of everything in it.

This is my problem with game publishers AND politicians at the moment. Just because I think that overall you're not shit, doesn't mean I endorse all the shitty things you do do.