Theory: Zelda: Twilight Princess is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask

[the protaginist]

I like the theory about the Hero's Shade being Link's father...

I need to play through TP again, haven't in a while...

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Ok that's a quite a wild and crazy theory you've got there. Me, I tend to think of each game as it's own "Legend" after all the series is called 'The Legend of Zelda', where no two games are directly related except for, you know, characters & setting (although not always setting); unless it's otherwise stated. I came to that conclusion long before Nintendo announced that there was no timeline, and frankly that's the only way I can make sense of all the inconsistencies.
'Cause one thing you failed to take into account in your theory there, if TP Link is the same Link as OoT, then how did Ganondorf get out of the Sacred Realm so that he could be imprisoned in the Twilight Realm?

 

[ZeroMachine]

Ok that's a quite a wild and crazy theory you've got there. Me, I tend to think of each game as it's own "Legend" after all the series is called 'The Legend of Zelda', where no two games are directly related except for, you know, characters & setting (although not always setting); unless it's otherwise stated. I came to that conclusion long before Nintendo announced that there was no timeline, and frankly that's the only way I can make sense of all the inconsistencies.
'Cause one thing you failed to take into account in your theory there, if TP Link is the same Link as OoT, then how did Ganondorf get out of the Sacred Realm so that he could be imprisoned in the Twilight Realm?

This isn't even theory: the Ganondorf of the past was never sent to the Sacred Realm. Only the Ganondorf of the future. Here's where the whole split-timeline idea comes in. In OOT, Adult Link defeated Ganon and he was banished to the Sacred Realm until sometime later, and then sealed under the sea after the Goddesses flooded Hyrule until his return in Wind Waker. Zelda then sent Link back to before he originally spoke to Zelda.

This is my theory on what happened after that: Link then went to Zelda and told her about his adventures. Something or other happend, and then while Link was off in Termina, new sages were appointed and they tried to kill Ganondorf before his campaign even started. They failed, because of the Triforce still somehow being split and Ganondorf having the Triforce of Power, and so they opted to send him to the Twilight Realm using the Mirror of Twilight.

And will people (not directed at you, canadamus) please stop telling me I'm reading way to far into it? Of course I am! That's what's fun about trying to come up with Zelda timelines! And will1182, you obviously haven't met the most hardcore Zelda fans. Some people get even more rediculous than me.

 

[Miles Tormani]

I wouldn't really include Majora's Mask in this because TP was supposed to be the next gen's classic game and equal to OoT in stature, hence the similarities.
It's nothing to do with timeline and continuation of story.

It's just Nintendo recycling characters & story.

Why wouldn't you include Majora's Mask? It may have well be outright said at the begginign "YOU ARE THE HERO OF TIME, YOU WANT TO FIND NAVI." It's painfully obvious that it's a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and that it's the same Link.

Please figure out what you're talking about before you bring up such theories. Sure, at the beginning of Majora's Mask, the game claims that the Hero of Time was searching for a friend that he had long lost when he took his place amongst legends (not an exact quote), and at the beginning, I thought that it was Navi as well.

However, Link does in fact find his long lost friend at the end of the game. You could even argue that he saw his friend near the very beginning.

Spoiler: Who might this be, you ask?

The skull kid, obviously. In fact, the skull kid wearing Majora's Mask was in fact the very same skull kid that Link befriended in the Lost Woods by playing Saria's Song to him. His keen interest in masks (as evidenced by him buying the skull mask in Ocarina of Time) carries over as well, which is what led him to wear Majora's Mask and become possessed by its dark power in the first place.

The Saria's Song connection is further implied during the flashback as you leave Clock Town, and Tatl reminisces on meeting the skull kid, playing with him (when Saria's Song plays), and his eventual fall from grace as he robs the traveling mask seller, and dons Majora's Mask.

This becomes obvious at the end of the game when the skull kid, free from Majora's control, mentions that Link "smells" familiar, almost like a certain fairy boy he played with in the woods. After the credits, you see a drawing of Link with the skull kid. Followed up by Saria's Song playing. It takes a bit of thought to understand, but I thought it was plain as day.

I'm not arguing that Majora's Mask isn't a direct sequel, because it certainly is, but you seem to not have your facts straight, which is making it harder for me to follow on with the rest of your theory. Especially with the later stretches.

1. Young Link's voice has yet to change in any Zelda game that isn't cel-shaded. Nor has Adult Link's voice. Not counting the first two Zelda games, Link's design has hardly changed as well. Design similarities really aren't a good factor. That said, I don't recall OoT Link changing into a wolf.

2. In Ocarina of Time, it is implied late-game that this is in fact a prequel to A Link to the Past, and that Link and Zelda here are ancestors. However, Ganondorf is the same person, and he swears that he'll trap their descendants, as well as those of the seven sages (which he does with Aghnim's help). Replace "Sages" with "Wise Men," "Sacred Realm" with "Golden Land," and "Evil Realm" with "Dark World," and it all falls together.

The fact that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both act as sequels to the Hero of Time's story, with the Links and Zeldas in these games being descendants of the Hero of Time and his Zelda, jumbles everything up.

3. You say the Hero's Shade can't be the Hero of Time because Link never wore armor? I have a two word response: Magic Armor.

4. The taunt in Brawl where Link sees a fairy could very well be any damn fairy. Aside from Tael, they're all identical. I further argue that it's not Navi because the fairy here never says "Hey! Listen!"

5. The "reset button," that is, losing all hearts and equipment, is explained simply by saying it's a different Link, every time. Of course, this presents a problem in Phantom Hourglass (I haven't played it so I can't comment), but not Majora's Mask. Why? Technically, due to what Zelda did at the end of Ocarina of Time, next to nothing actually happened aside from the sages trapping Ganondorf in seven years. So it was a real reset button. This is also why the Hero of Time is hardly mentioned in Link to the Past, save for by the Sage's descendants, who happen to be all female for some reason.

You want real stretches, though? Try thinking cross-series. Why do Talon and Ingo look so much like Mario and Luigi, even to the point of clothing colors? How do Talon and Malon have Bowser neckpieces? Did Ingo get bitter because he didn't get a Bowser neckpiece, or because he never had his own game aside from Mario is Missing, and that's why he took over the ranch with Ganondorf's help? Why is the ending theme to Ocarina of Time (when Link returns the Master Sword) so similar to the ending theme in Star Fox 64? Why is there an Arwing model in the source code? Speaking of which, how did James McCloud not only survive the ambush from Andross, but somehow become human, leave Star Fox, and join a separate mercenary force named Galaxy Dog? And if he joined the F-Zero Grand Prix, why did his son join the G-Zero GP? Speaking of that, why is Star Fox Adventures basically a Zelda game where you have a staff instead of sword and shield, complete with block puzzles?

Yeah, I don't know where I was going with that. Apologies.

 

[gerrymander61]

That troubled me, since the previous two 3D Zelda games, Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, would sometimes at least give me a hard time.

I'd imagine many things would trouble you if Wind Waker gave you a hard time.

 

[Lyri]

Why wouldn't you include Majora's Mask? It may have well be outright said at the begginign "YOU ARE THE HERO OF TIME, YOU WANT TO FIND NAVI." It's painfully obvious that it's a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and that it's the same Link.

Because Majora's Mask is set in Termina & not Hyrule.

That Link must be packing a tardis, it's so painfully obvious right?

 

[Arachkid]

What bout

The legend of zelda spirit tracks?
best to put it in your timeline now i guess

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Ok that's a quite a wild and crazy theory you've got there. Me, I tend to think of each game as it's own "Legend" after all the series is called 'The Legend of Zelda', where no two games are directly related except for, you know, characters & setting (although not always setting); unless it's otherwise stated. I came to that conclusion long before Nintendo announced that there was no timeline, and frankly that's the only way I can make sense of all the inconsistencies.
'Cause one thing you failed to take into account in your theory there, if TP Link is the same Link as OoT, then how did Ganondorf get out of the Sacred Realm so that he could be imprisoned in the Twilight Realm?

This isn't even theory: the Ganondorf of the past was never sent to the Sacred Realm. Only the Ganondorf of the future. Here's where the whole split-timeline idea comes in. In OOT, Adult Link defeated Ganon and he was banished to the Sacred Realm until sometime later, and then sealed under the sea after the Goddesses flooded Hyrule until his return in Wind Waker. Zelda then sent Link back to before he originally spoke to Zelda.

This is my theory on what happened after that: Link then went to Zelda and told her about his adventures. Something or other happend, and then while Link was off in Termina, new sages were appointed and they tried to kill Ganondorf before his campaign even started. They failed, because of the Triforce still somehow being split and Ganondorf having the Triforce of Power, and so they opted to send him to the Twilight Realm using the Mirror of Twilight.

And will people (not directed at you, canadamus) please stop telling me I'm reading way to far into it? Of course I am! That's what's fun about trying to come up with Zelda timelines! And will1182, you obviously haven't met the most hardcore Zelda fans. Some people get even more rediculous than me.

Wait... I thought the Goddesses flooded Hyrule because Zelda had sent Link back in time creating a timeline where the Hero of Time never appeared and then Link left for Termina and... ow, this is giving a headache. 'Cause wasn't the timeline where Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm supposed to lead into LttP?
See, this is why I much prefer to think of each game as separate and unrelated. ...unless specifically stated otherwise, such as the case with OoT and Majora's Mask.

 

[katsa5]

The more I read your Wall of Text, the more I think you're just using this subject to display what a condescending snob you are. Yay, you can play a Zelda game with ease. Yay, you can write endless logic circles. Hasn't Nintendo already addressed this? Nintendo does not like creating Timelines out of risk of character constraint (gameinformer). Also, Twilight officially takes place 1500 years after Ocarina of Time (also gameinformer). And since its been that long and they are still using bow and arrows and castles, I don't think a Link Duplicate, or even the same person, would be around.
Bottom line; do not expect continuity from Nintendo (save for rare exceptions like Fire Emblem and Metroid). Why? Mario has no continuity whatsoever, and his name is practically synonymous with Video Gaming. Sonic the Hedgehog attempts as continuity, and his name is practically synonymous with Failure.

 

[ZeroMachine]

Ok... here goes... And remember, even if it seems like I'm trashing you, I'm not, I just find a lot of things wrong with almost every single one of your points.

I wouldn't really include Majora's Mask in this because TP was supposed to be the next gen's classic game and equal to OoT in stature, hence the similarities.
It's nothing to do with timeline and continuation of story.

It's just Nintendo recycling characters & story.

Why wouldn't you include Majora's Mask? It may have well be outright said at the begginign "YOU ARE THE HERO OF TIME, YOU WANT TO FIND NAVI." It's painfully obvious that it's a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and that it's the same Link.

Please figure out what you're talking about before you bring up such theories. Sure, at the beginning of Majora's Mask, the game claims that the Hero of Time was searching for a friend that he had long lost when he took his place amongst legends (not an exact quote), and at the beginning, I thought that it was Navi as well.

However, Link does in fact find his long lost friend at the end of the game. You could even argue that he saw his friend near the very beginning.

Spoiler: Who might this be, you ask?

The skull kid, obviously. In fact, the skull kid wearing Majora's Mask was in fact the very same skull kid that Link befriended in the Lost Woods by playing Saria's Song to him. His keen interest in masks (as evidenced by him buying the skull mask in Ocarina of Time) carries over as well, which is what led him to wear Majora's Mask and become possessed by its dark power in the first place.

The Saria's Song connection is further implied during the flashback as you leave Clock Town, and Tatl reminisces on meeting the skull kid, playing with him (when Saria's Song plays), and his eventual fall from grace as he robs the traveling mask seller, and dons Majora's Mask.

This becomes obvious at the end of the game when the skull kid, free from Majora's control, mentions that Link "smells" familiar, almost like a certain fairy boy he played with in the woods. After the credits, you see a drawing of Link with the skull kid. Followed up by Saria's Song playing. It takes a bit of thought to understand, but I thought it was plain as day.

There are two very important piece of evidence that you overlooked that makes this entire theory wrong.

1. Right after the prologue text, you hear the sound that Navi made while floating around. This makes it really fucking obvious that he was looking for Navi.

2. You even pointed this out yourself. If they were such good friends, and if Link was going through that much to look for him, why did the Skull Kid, at the end of the game, say "You smell familiar" like he didn't really recognize him, and then ask "Can we be friends?" (which even explains why they end up making that carving at the end, they became friends after the fact) I've never asked someone I'm already friends with if we can be friends. And don't even think about pulling out the amnesia card. Not only that, but you are the only person I've ever heard say that, so the fact that you're saying it as though it's a well known fact is pretty ballsy of you.

I'm not arguing that Majora's Mask isn't a direct sequel, because it certainly is, but you seem to not have your facts straight, which is making it harder for me to follow on with the rest of your theory. Especially with the later stretches.

1. Young Link's voice has yet to change in any Zelda game that isn't cel-shaded. Nor has Adult Link's voice. Not counting the first two Zelda games, Link's design has hardly changed as well. Design similarities really aren't a good factor. That said, I don't recall OoT Link changing into a wolf.

Re: Art style/voice, I'll let that slide, I even admitted those were a huge stretch myself. But as for the wolf, there's a pretty good reason for that. Link turning into a wolf was a major plot point for Twilight Princess, not Ocarina of Time. The magic that turned him into a wolf wasn't shown in Ocarina of Time, therefore he didn't turn into a wolf. Pretty simple.

2. In Ocarina of Time, it is implied late-game that this is in fact a prequel to A Link to the Past, and that Link and Zelda here are ancestors. However, Ganondorf is the same person, and he swears that he'll trap their descendants, as well as those of the seven sages (which he does with Aghnim's help). The fact that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both act as sequels to the Hero of Time's story, with the Links and Zeldas in these games being descendants of the Hero of Time and his Zelda, jumbles everything up.

Wrong. It is never implied that it is a prequel to ALTTP. In fact, the Ganondorf that said that is the Ganondorf from Wind Waker, which is the "Hyrule B" timeline. And this is obvious, as the pictures of the same exact sages from OOT are seen in the stained glass windows around the Master Sword. This means that the next time Ganondorf shows up in future-Hyrule, the Goddesses flood it. Not ALTTP.

3. You say the Hero's Shade can't be the Hero of Time because Link never wore armor? I have a two word response: Magic Armor.

Like the wolf, the Magic Armor wasn't introduced until Twilight Princess. Again, pretty simple.

4. The taunt in Brawl where Link sees a fairy could very well be any damn fairy. Aside from Tael, they're all identical. I further argue that it's not Navi because the fairy here never says "Hey! Listen!"

1. Guardian Fairies of the Kokiri, of which Navi was one, are all blue. Generic fairies are pink. Tatl is yellow. You were only right about Tael. The fairy seen in Brawl is blue.
2. It makes the sound you hear at the beggining of Majora's Mask.
3. Why the fuck would Nintendo put a random fairy there when everyone knows that Link had a companion fairy, Navi?

5. The "reset button," that is, losing all hearts and equipment, is explained simply by saying it's a different Link, every time. Of course, this presents a problem in Phantom Hourglass (I haven't played it so I can't comment), but not Majora's Mask. Why? Technically, due to what Zelda did at the end of Ocarina of Time, next to nothing actually happened aside from the sages trapping Ganondorf in seven years. So it was a real reset button.

This I mostly agree with, but part of my theory (just to BS things through, I'll admit) is that he grew slightly weaker through lack of real practice. Like I said, my theory was a stretch, but it's just something I enjoy.

And I'll just say that last paragraph was quite funny. But seriously, think through your ideas more, and don't claim I don't know what I'm talking about without making sure you've done your research.

 

[ZeroMachine]

That troubled me, since the previous two 3D Zelda games, Wind Waker and Majora's Mask, would sometimes at least give me a hard time.

I'd imagine many things would trouble you if Wind Waker gave you a hard time.

I more or less meant it gave me a harder time than Twilight Princess. Hard by comparison, not actually hard.

The more I read your Wall of Text, the more I think you're just using this subject to display what a condescending snob you are.

... Wow. So sharing theories and ideas with others makes me a condescending snob? So sorry if the fact that I wanted input on an idea or to share it with other Zelda fans insulted you at all.

 

[Lyri]

In Majora's Mask, the skull kid scarpers with Epona & navi. It's been a while but I'm pretty certain that you're looking for Epona &/or Navi.

 

[ZeroMachine]

In Majora's Mask, the skull kid scarpers with Epona & navi. It's been a while but I'm pretty certain that you're looking for Epona &/or Navi.

Navi. He left on the journey with Epona, so he wasn't searching for her. But the Skull Kid never did anything to Navi, he just had Tael with him after Tatl joined Link.

What bout

The legend of zelda spirit tracks?
best to put it in your timeline now i guess

Blech, good god, no... I don't have high hopes for that game, story-wise.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Oen little issue with your theory. At the beginning of the game, Link isn't aware at all of his latent potential. If he was the Hero of Time from OoT/MM and not a reincarnation, there wouldn't have to be some huge explination given to him by one of the great fairies, he would already know that it's his place to man up and save Hyrule, as he was already obligated to save the world twice.

Case Closed.

As for the dual time line, I'm not so convinced. I'm still a fan of the theory of a single timeline with multiple reincarnations from different generations. OoT/MM being one of the earlier incarnations, Link's Awakening/LoZ/LoZ2 all being from another generation,

That being considered, did anyone ever think that maybe TP follows LttP, which the Hero's Shadow being the Link from that serise? Considering the TP Link wears chain underneath his tunic, which could be something akin to the Magic Armour, they could be considered from the same time era? To make matters even more freaky, did anyone ever consider OoT/MM's Hyrule to be a restored TP's Hyrule? Stuff to think about...

 

[Lyri]

Navi. He left on the journey with Epona, so he wasn't searching for her. But the Skull Kid never did anything to Navi, he just had Tael with him after Tatl joined Link.

Random thought.

How do you know he isn't looking for Saria?

That being considered, did anyone ever think that maybe TP follows LttP, which the Hero's Shadow being the Link from that serise? Considering the TP Link wears chain underneath his tunic, which could be something akin to the Magic Armour, they could be considered from the same time era? To make matters even more freaky, did anyone ever consider OoT/MM's Hyrule to be a restored TP's Hyrule? Stuff to think about...

Majora's Mask is set in Termina, which is an alternate version of Hyrule.
So no.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Majora's Mask is set in Termina, which is an alternate version of Hyrule.
So no.

What does the setting of the sequel to OoT have to do with OoT coming after TP? Could be wrong, but my understanding is that they're both Hyrule. Essentially, LttP -> TP -> OoT -> MM

 

[ZeroMachine]

Navi. He left on the journey with Epona, so he wasn't searching for her. But the Skull Kid never did anything to Navi, he just had Tael with him after Tatl joined Link.

Random thought.

How do you know he isn't looking for Saria?

1. Saria's just chillin' in Kokiri forest. Ganondorf never reigned supreme, so she was never called anywhere, she was never a sage, so she just lived her life in peace.

2. I mentioned it earlier in my reply to Miles, you can plainly hear the sound Navi makes after the prologue dialogue. Not to mention I'm pretty sure around the time the game came out, Nintendo was saying "You're on a journey to find Navi".

3. It's the only thing that made sense. Out of all of the friends he made, he grew closest to Navi, and Navi is the only one to disappear after OOT.

Oen little issue with your theory. At the beginning of the game, Link isn't aware at all of his latent potential. If he was the Hero of Time from OoT/MM and not a reincarnation, there wouldn't have to be some huge explination given to him by one of the great fairies, he would already know that it's his place to man up and save Hyrule, as he was already obligated to save the world twice.

Case Closed.

As for the dual time line, I'm not so convinced. I'm still a fan of the theory of a single timeline with multiple reincarnations from different generations. OoT/MM being one of the earlier incarnations, Link's Awakening/LoZ/LoZ2 all being from another generation,

That being considered, did anyone ever think that maybe TP follows LttP, which the Hero's Shadow being the Link from that serise? Considering the TP Link wears chain underneath his tunic, which could be something akin to the Magic Armour, they could be considered from the same time era? To make matters even more freaky, did anyone ever consider OoT/MM's Hyrule to be a restored TP's Hyrule? Stuff to think about...

How do you know Link didn't know? He didn't say "I didn't know that", and he accepted his duty quite easily. When he heard he was the "Hero of Time" in OOT, he reacted with a look of shock.

And as for OOT/MM's Hyrule being a restored TP's, that wouldn't make much sense. OOT can basically be looked at as "The Origin of Ganon", so that means before that there was no Ganon. LTTP couldn't be before it.

 

[Lyri]

What does the setting of the sequel to OoT have to do with OoT coming after TP? Could be wrong, but my understanding is that they're both Hyrule. Essentially, LttP -> TP -> OoT -> MM

Lets go back and look at what you said.

To make matters even more freaky, did anyone ever consider OoT/MM's Hyrule to be a restored TP's Hyrule?

So, you are wrong on both accounts.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

To make matters even more freaky, did anyone ever consider OoT/MM's Hyrule to be a restored TP's Hyrule?

So, you are wrong on both accounts.

Sorry if I need to spell it out, but they are apart of the same universe/era/time frame/whatever you want to use to group them together. I was pointing out that they come from the same era, not that MM is in Hyrule. If you missed that, I sincerely apologize.

How do you know Link didn't know? He didn't say "I didn't know that", and he accepted his duty quite easily. When he heard he was the "Hero of Time" in OOT, he reacted with a look of shock.

And as for OOT/MM's Hyrule being a restored TP's, that wouldn't make much sense. OOT can basically be looked at as "The Origin of Ganon", so that means before that there was no Ganon. LTTP couldn't be before it.

But it still begs the question as to why he needs to be explained everything again. If it's a direct sequel, why not just go "FYI, Hyrule is boned again. Go get your stuff together and save the world". No, instead he has a trippy dream sequence in which he comes to realize that he's meant for something greater in life. One explination of Hyrule's forgotten history per incarnation. It's like a golden rule!