There is no such thing as a gaming community

[Karadalis]

Its a myth i tell ya! Told by internet personalities and game journalists alike as an easy to use strawman!

Lately i have seen more and more people talk about "the gaming community this... the gaming community that" and it allways somehow rubbed me the wrong way...

See the problem with claiming that such a singular community exist would be the same as saying that there is one unified sports community. And this is where it falls apart...

Just like in sports where you have fandoms for soccer, football, tennis, golf etc. so exists different sub-communities for the gaming world.

You have your e-sports, your mmo players, your FPS nuts, your casual gamers, people who frequent 4chan, console gamers, the PC masterrace, i-phone fanatics etc.

And each of these communities are entities for themselves.. now a person can be part of multiple but i have yet to see a person be part of ALL of them.

Why do i bring this up?

Because people keep reffering to gamers as one huge community when it simply isnt true at all especialy when something negative happens thats somehow connected to gaming in general people are quick to blame "the gaming community".

Once again its like if the sportsnews is reporting about hooligans during a soccer game beating up a police officer and then blaming ALL sportsfans of ALL forms of sport no matter what sport they actually are a fan of and telling them that they have to "change" the sports community. It doesnt work that way.

Yet in gaming it seems to be all the rage to say that when something bad happens that is connected that its the "community". That the "community" has to work to change.. that the "community" needs to do something. How is said mythic being known as the community capable of doing it when it doesnt exist to begin with?

Because a couple of nujobs from 4chan are spouting sexist phrases at someone I am somehow responsible for changing their behavior? I dont count myselfe to the 4chan community nor do i have much of an interest of joining them. But because they play games and I play games im somehow responsible for their actions? And to top it off it is somehow my job to change their behavior?

This goes especialy out to all those internet personalities and reviewers/critics who keep pointing their fingers at their cameras and blaming their own viewerships for all the bad stuff that happens. NEWSFLASH: The people who are watching your shows and reading your articles are most likely not the ones involved in the incidents you talk about and have ZERO meanings of changing anyones behavior nor are they even part of the same subcommunity.

Anyways... what are your thoughts on the matter of "the gaming community"

 

[CloudAtlas]

Oh I can imagine where this is going... and where it's coming from.

People just don't want to be considered part of a community when someone from this community does something bad. Then they want to shirk all group responsibility for the wrongdoings of their peers, because hey, "it wasn't me", right? They're an awful lot concerned about how it reflects badly on them, but not as much about the bad stuff itself, let alone about what can be done about it.


Here's a newsflash for you, OP: The people watching these shows might not be the worst of the bunch, but there are plenty of idiots too.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Anyways... what are your thoughts on the matter of "the gaming community"

The sport comparison isn't really appropriate. In sports, most people will follow a team or several teams within different sports. In games, we tend to play whatever comes our way rather than exclusively supporting one franchise or game. There's a much greater degree of crossover of interests between gamers.

We also tend to come together on places like the Escapist where the focus is not on any specific aspect of the gaming scene, rather being generally about gaming itself.

 

[DoPo]

See the problem with claiming that such a singular community exist would be the same as saying that there is one unified sports community. And this is where it falls apart...

Just like in sports where you have fandoms for soccer, football, tennis, golf etc. so exists different sub-communities for the gaming world.

You have your e-sports, your mmo players, your FPS nuts, your casual gamers, people who frequent 4chan, console gamers, the PC masterrace, i-phone fanatics etc.

True - however don't you consider it contradicting your argument that you are posting this on the Escapist, which is most definitely a website for gamers of all shapes and sizes, thus representing a more unified "community". A "gaming community", if you wish.

And each of these communities are entities for themselves.. now a person can be part of multiple but i have yet to see a person be part of ALL of them.

Nirvana fallacy? You don't have many people belonging to ALL different subshards of communities, but most gamers definitely belong to more than one. More than two, even. It is very easy to be a console gamer AND FPS gamer. Or PC and console gamer. In fact, you might struggle getting people with two categories only - casual PC FPS gamers (for whatever you define "casual" as) for example is somebody belonging to three. Now, it's a very fair assumption that somebody going on the Escapist belongs to even more of them. So you may not have a community of people belonging to all other subcommunities, each, but you have a community of people belonging to all other subcommunities.

But here is my counter question - if you do not see a "gaming community" existing, and you do not even count yourself as belonging to one (because "it doesn't exist"), then...who are you addressing your post to? Surely, it seems directed at the gaming community...and...you're...telling it it doesn't exist. Which is weird on many levels. And a prime counterargument to yours. ...which contains it, so it's sort of self defeating in the first place....I'm just getting more and more confused the more I think about it.

 

[Tom_green_day]

I think it's used as an easy way to say 'people who play games but aren't children or mothers playing candy crush or old people playing farmville etc' I think the word 'community' is dumb in its usage here.

 

[shrekfan246]

Maybe it got locked, but I could've sworn I've seen this exact thread before.

Anyway, OP, your comparison breaks down right away when you realize that before moving in to categorize people as "football fans" or whatever, they generally are first "sports fans" because you will potentially be able to tell that they enjoy sports before specifically knowing what they like.

Otherwise, you're not actually complaining about the "gaming community". You're complaining about a generalization. Congratulations, you've discovered something humans have been doing since the beginning of our race. You realize it's better to just let people continue on in their prejudice and wrongful bias than get offended by it if there's no way to get them to recognize the differences, right? Rather than get all uppity when someone says something dumb like "All gamers are murderers waiting to happen", I can just facepalm and ignore that person's opinion because, frankly, they probably don't know what they're talking about.

We are not "held accountable" for the actions of other sections of the internet any more than European football fans are "held accountable" for the riots that blaze through South America. Just because part of the 'gaming community' has done something stupid, it doesn't mean the entire 'gaming community' has to pay for it and if you're ascribing guilt to yourself because of it, you might want to check to make sure you haven't actually done anything worth being guilty about.

 

[Savagezion]

The idea of a gaming community is great. It's great for gamers, its great for devs, publishers and websites have their own little dance, everybody wins. However, I do agree with you on some level. I do see the escapist community as a gaming community. One of many. As for a collective gaming community, there is like a loud mesh of crap that tends to randomly collide in multiple areas. This 'voice' will sound differently depending on your current affiliations with it. How many are you connected to? You are already part of it, which part(s) is up to you.

"The industry" is the same way. It does have a more predictable 'voice' usually though as it has a more structured environment. The indie scene breakout has stirred their pot a bit. Obviously, when Miyamoto or Kottick talk you should listen. Not even out of respect, but because of their influences on "the industry". When Ken Levine talks I am like "Yeah, ok." But I know he doesn't have the kind of pull to make me need to read it. Most of us are lower than that in their eyes though. We are like the guy they interview for a game and this is like his 1 time working on a game with a budget of over $2 million. Yeah, we mostly look like that guy to them.

We sometimes catapult individual people to imitate giving our voice more pull. Sometimes we try mass gatherings.

"The industry" and "the gaming community" cannot communicate directly. It's impossible. A part of the industry can directly communicate with a part of the gaming community though. It tends to be really good or really bad when that happens. Publishers tend to see it as risky. We have given them reasons and they have given us reasons to have reasons.

One exists, but it is not and probably never will be unified.

 

[Ender910_v1legacy]

I tend to agree. While yes, there are gaming communities, there is not one singular community, not truly. It's much like how it is with any other medium. When was the last time you heard about a novel or book reading community? Or a movie/film watching community? It's an absurd notion that's been perpetuated by celebrities in the gaming industry (and yes, an industry IS an entirely different kind of social construct than a "broad" fan-base community).

 

[CannibalCorpses]

You're complaining about a generalization. Congratulations, you've discovered something humans have been doing since the beginning of our race.

Wow an explanation AND an example of generalisation in the same section...impressive ;p

OP I mostly agree with what you are saying but be an individual instead of just a member of a community. It doesn't bother me that much when people generalise about gamers because i am not gamers in general. I am me, an individual with my own opinions and experiences. Trying to blame me for the actions of others is just silly so i treat people that try to do that with contempt...

I speak on the forums but i don't feel part of the community. I don't associate myself in real life with any of the people here nor do i ever play games with them online. I play games with maybe 10 friends and thats it, that is my community...that is my identifying 'group' and everything else is piss poor stereotyping by people with an agenda that defies logic.

 

[kingthrall]

Here is my gaming community, self run servers from bungie's myth II since they were shut down 2001. I know most of these dudes personally around 30 people tops now days, but it was around 60 during the Myth world cup days and most I keep in touch with from all corners of the globe.

http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=5eddca52b57518284999ebd80e15396a

If you actually bother to read the forums, we are trying to get more people involved. Sadly most players are content with fancy flashy graphics, and assume micro involves zergling spam and jump shooting in fps.

Best part of community servers is we can swear so much without having some cry baby administrator slapping a warning or censoring post. Only extreme cases which were highly amusing got banned for a few months.

Enjoy anyway, maybe some educated soul will actually try finding a copy and give it a whirl online

 

[shrekfan246]

You're complaining about a generalization. Congratulations, you've discovered something humans have been doing since the beginning of our race.

Wow an explanation AND an example of generalisation in the same section...impressive ;p

'Twas part of the point, to reinforce just how easily someone can use stereotypes or generalizations, even when they're not using them purposely or with bad intentions.

They run rampant through our cultures and aren't just confined to things like the "gaming community". People pass judgements on other people every day due to generalizations, even if they don't realize it. Merely pointing it out and whinging about it isn't going to do much to change the status quo. Especially not for something so relatively unimportant in the bigger world as video games. Eventually people will stop believing games are only for kids, or train murderers, or are for sad lonely people with no lives, or don't hold any artistic merit. But our complaining about it on an internet forum will do very little in the "fight" to change those opinions.

 

[Karadalis]

True - however don't you consider it contradicting your argument that you are posting this on the Escapist, which is most definitely a website for gamers of all shapes and sizes, thus representing a more unified "community". A "gaming community", if you wish.

No i dont.

For the same reason that there are sports magazines and forums that report / are all about all things sport.

Or magazines / forums for mini war gaming that cover different gaming systems + PnP systems.

You know wargaming might even be a better comparison then sports.

You have your people playing historical stuff, then you have people who use minis in their PnP games, others play games workshop game systems.. then you have the warmachine players.

To say that there exists a singular "wargaming" community is nonsense. I know alot of warmachine players that start to hiss when they even hear the name "games workshop" and simply dont want to have any involvement with said company at all. The same is true for gamers. Some PC players will harump at the very thought of playing on console and some console players think that PC gaming is for old farts.

Would you really lump them together as one community? I dont think so. Magazines / Forums like the escapist might report about everything that has to do with gaming yet that doesnt mean that everyone visiting the site will also be involved in all those things. People come here to read what is relevant to their interests and those that are involved in the forums are another community in of itselfe. Yet there are millions more gamers out there that dont give a crap about the escapist or dont even know it exists. Yet you would say they are part of the same community?

Also for the rest of the people claiming i argue that there exist no gaming community.

I argue that there exists lots of different, independant from each other gaming communities, but there exist no such thing as ONE SINGULAR community that somehow involved everyone and everything to do with gaming.

I think i gave enough examples as to why i think this way and have yet to see an argument that claims otherwise besides "No u!" or "they dont play sports and are only fans so you cant compare" (Sorry to say but sports is still a good example cause alot of these fans also play these sports privatly.. guess that thought never crossed your mind huh?)

Here is my gaming community, self run servers from bungie's myth II since they were shut down 2001. I know most of these dudes personally around 30 people tops now days, but it was around 60 during the Myth world cup days and most I keep in touch with from all corners of the globe.

http://forum.gateofstorms.net/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=5eddca52b57518284999ebd80e15396a

If you actually bother to read the forums, we are trying to get more people involved. Sadly most players are content with fancy flashy graphics, and assume micro involves zergling spam and jump shooting in fps.

Best part of community servers is we can swear so much without having some cry baby administrator slapping a warning or censoring post. Only extreme cases which were highly amusing got banned for a few months.

Enjoy anyway, maybe some educated soul will actually try finding a copy and give it a whirl online

So lets say someone who plays Quake/DayZ/Unreal tournament is an incredible douchebag and says something sexist and distastfully insulting in public.. like on a certain someones youtube kickstarter video, or on a developers twitter.

Do you feel responsible for his words?

Do you even feel that you two belong in the same community and should be labeled as such?

Or do you see yourselfe as not part of his community because you are clearly not involved with that person or the people he surounds himselfe with?

 

[kingthrall]

Nope not responsible, usually if he annoys the community he gets kicked from games. Oh wait! new games sometimes appear not to use a kick function cause they tend to be too stupid not to implement it. Also if that person does something offensive publicly, the larger community still has 100% writing privileges to express their full disgust and shame/pity on the individual without fear of a ban-hammer.

If you consider yourself a part of a gaming community you look at all facets, not just what you want to see. Usually in the old days of Myth, there were retirement matches that were basically 5 rounds of 1v1 where the community (lobby could hold 16 players in a single game) would observe and then when that person got beat they would not be kicked from any game hosted for a certain amount of time.

Yeah this is old school gaming, the only thing that ive ever seen that was offensive was that douchebag on youtube a while back that posted naked photo of his girlfriend cause she used his favorite League of Legends character. Which he got a slap on the wrist for.. At least the community your eager to question actually makes the player feel like a jerk.

Edit; usually in tournaments, for myth there are players who intentionally try and psyc the other players in a fit of rage (no joke) they actually try to get them mad so they make micro management mistakes or try and hate-play on a flank ect which exposes that team to be beaten.

 

[DoPo]

I dont think so. Magazines / Forums like the escapist might report about everything that has to do with gaming yet that doesnt mean that everyone visiting the site will also be involved in all those things.

So you may not have a community of people belonging to all other subcommunities, each, but you have a community of people belonging to all other subcommunities.

So lets say someone who plays Quake/DayZ/Unreal tournament is an incredible douchebag and says something sexist and distastfully insulting in public.. like on a certain someones youtube kickstarter video, or on a developers twitter.

Do you feel responsible for his words?

Do you even feel that you two belong in the same community and should be labeled as such?

If somebody plays one game, it's not a huge leap of logic to assume they also play others. They may play Quake, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress and WoW. If somebody else plays all of those except Quake, how are they both not part of the same community? Or what if they share TF2 and WoW - is the Quake player not part of the other communities again? Moreover - who is to say the Quake player won't move to some other game at a later point? I am not asking you, however, since your response would be along the lines of "it's not my problem because reasons" - you can cite "I don't know if that is so" or "he did it in Quake", but the fact remains - that Quake player is a douche and would be a douche wherever he is. The particular subcommunity the incident happened is largely irrelevant.

 

[Harleykin]

i never felt a part of a gaming community.
never felt like a part of the going to the movies community either.

instead i felt like part of the metal community.

seriously gaming community? i'd never want to be part of it if it exist since so much scum runs around because of "i r anon" thinking they behave whatever they feel like(and yes i am "part" of 4chan so i "r anon" to some degree...maybe)

i felt like being part of certain gaming communities yes but never such a strong feeling of being welcome like in the metalhead experience.

and no: this forum isn't making me part of the gaming community if you feel like it exists.

seriously it's like with the metal thing.... i'm a metalhead. i am not and will never be "part of the music community".

nit picking? hell yeah

 

[Tarfeather]

From wikipedia: "1) Community can refer to a usually small, social unit of any size that shares common values."

Which means that the community needs some method to *maintain* its values, and to *keep people who disregard these values out of the community*. That's something you can apply to some society in real life like the US where you can send people who disobey to prison. Or to a forum like this where people who disobey get banned. But you can't apply it to "people who like games". No matter what your values are, there will always be people who like games and disregard these values. Particularly, lurkers on the Escapist have no influence in any shape or form on whether or not some random on twitter mortally threatens a female gaming personality. Yes I'm looking at you Jim Sterling.

So yes, stop it. Stop assuming that there is one singular gaming community, that there is a "we" and "them", that gaming as a medium can only be respected by waging a holy war on every gamer who violates your moral codec. There *are* gaming communities, such as this one, and I'm pretty sure that if someone starts threatening other people on here, they'd get banned and we could all move on. But just because someone happens to like games, they are not responsible for every twat on the internet who also likes games.

 

[Eamar]

The word "community" is used to include huge numbers of people with only one or two things in common all the time, especially when it comes to journalism: see "the gay community", "the African American community", "the Muslim community" etc, etc. I think people overthink it a bit when it's applied to gamers, it's just a way our society seems to like to categorise people in the broadest terms.

I'm not going to pass judgement on whether that's a good or helpful thing or not, but it's definitely not new and it's definitely not restricted to gaming.

 

[EvilRoy]

Oh I can imagine where this is going... and where it's coming from.

People just don't want to be considered part of a community when someone from this community does something bad. Then they want to shirk all group responsibility for the wrongdoings of their peers, because hey, "it wasn't me", right? They're an awful lot concerned about how it reflects badly on them, but not as much about the bad stuff itself, let alone about what can be done about it.


Here's a newsflash for you, OP: The people watching these shows might not be the worst of the bunch, but there are plenty of idiots too.

Even if that's the OP's motivation, it is completely reasonable to not want to be associated with jackasses. Look no further than this website when the twin specters of feminism and entitlement arrive. How often do we see the arguments "well those people aren't really feminists" or "not all gamers are like that" when any of the many negative examples come forward. Its the exact same idea, just turned around - "I'm not with those weirdos" is no different than "That weirdo isn't with us".

I can't change the hearts and minds of the people around me, but I can change whether I'm associated with them and I don't blame others for doing the same. The only thing communities do is make generalization easier, so if I don't fit the generalization, then I'm not part of the community.