Things to make Sonic Better?

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Goldeneye103X2

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Jun 29, 2008
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Either:
a) Make remakes of the old games, with shinier graphics and
b)take out all the useless characters(amy, knuckles, shadow, chaotix, blaze, silver, cream,etc.), make tails an 8-year old, not a mechanical genious, and put in the satAM characters(sally, bunnie, rotor, antoine,etc.) and you're onto a winner. C'mon SEGA, they were the only necessary sonic characters.
 

Svenparty

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Jan 13, 2009
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Urm...It all went pear shaped when it went into 3d which didnt work for Sonic...They could update the graphics but make it 2d why not?


and less gimmicky shite like...Guns...Evil plots
 

LesIsMore

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Jul 22, 2008
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Sonic can't compete with the big boys any longer, and his hope of doing so died with Sega releasing consoles. At this point his only hope for survival is to crawl into burrows where his game style could actually work (Nintendo DS, XBLA), strip out graphical upgrades and make it more about the maps and rings that made the original three Sonic games what they were.

But really, at this point, let him retire to the Done to Death Retirement Home for Video Game Characters. Let him sit curled up in Lara Croft's lap and use his super-speed to keep copping feels, while Solid Snake regales them with tales of box-hiding and gets confused (as did all players) over when Big Boss and Liquid Snake actually died.
 

Kuraigekage

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Best thing to do to make Sonic better? Well, things...

-quit trying to reinvent the series, this just confuses the older players that still care and brainwash the newer (younger) audience into thinking that Sonic's someone/thing you can relate to. which he's not. at all. he's a fecking hedgehog for chrissakes.

-either redo the oldschool 2D platformers with all their vertical ascension, beat-the-clock, loop-de-loop awesomeness or don't bother making another Sonic game.

-for the love of GOD stop making Sonic-themed cartoons. bad cartoons with bad plots = bad videogames with worse plots that try to follow the already bad cartoon plot but fail miserably...
 

MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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Goldeneye103X2 said:
Either:
a) Make remakes of the old games, with shinier graphics and
b)take out all the useless characters(amy, knuckles, shadow, chaotix, blaze, silver, cream,etc.), make tails an 8-year old, not a mechanical genious, and put in the satAM characters(sally, bunnie, rotor, antoine,etc.) and you're onto a winner. C'mon SEGA, they were the only necessary sonic characters.
Nonononono, you can't get rid of Knuckles like that! He was the last acceptable character to be introduced to the series and as Yahtzee said, he did arrive while the series was still good. Plus, I felt his story was kind of tragic, really. Still do, in a way...:(
 

Erana

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Make the, "Combat" a timing thing. And not a QTE. More like DDR, or audiosurf. Otherwise, they should go old skool.
 

Goldeneye103X2

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MarsProbe said:
Goldeneye103X2 said:
Either:
a) Make remakes of the old games, with shinier graphics and
b)take out all the useless characters(amy, knuckles, shadow, chaotix, blaze, silver, cream,etc.), make tails an 8-year old, not a mechanical genious, and put in the satAM characters(sally, bunnie, rotor, antoine,etc.) and you're onto a winner. C'mon SEGA, they were the only necessary sonic characters.
Nonononono, you can't get rid of Knuckles like that! He was the last acceptable character to be introduced to the series and as Yahtzee said, he did arrive while the series was still good. Plus, I felt his story was kind of tragic, really. Still do, in a way...:(
He was talking about tails. But i guess i could keep in knuckles.
 

MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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Goldeneye103X2 said:
He was talking about tails. But i guess i could keep in knuckles.
Ah yes, so he was..:) Still, you played Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles right?
 

forever saturday

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Nov 6, 2008
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one: stop making him faster. if you cant do this then you should at least have less jumping and stuff, and more long stretches of running. going fast is what made the games good, and its almost impossible to even get to full speed.

two: hire good voice actors, and pay them more then minimum wage. i remember in sonic heroes i thought that tails sounded like a five year old. and in sonic and the secret rings it was so bad that i wanted to pop out my eardrums with a fork.

three: stop trying to do stupid gimmicks to "get back to sonics roots" or whatever. this is what they were doing with sonic unleashed and sonic and the secret rings (which by the way was the worst game ive ever played). and stop having all that combat stuff. sonic is about running around.

four: stop using the same plot over and over again with only minor difference. eggman tries to get the chaos emeralds, then he screws up royally and has to help a now made of solid gold sonic kill some big monster. every. single. fucking. time.

five: give us a villian we can take seriously, as in he looks like an actual threat. eggman? that sounds like something from a saturday morning cartoon for children. oh wait...

six: kill off half the cast. if i ever actually wrote anything for sonic the hedgehog (regardless of fanfic or if i was actually a canon writer) then i would start by killing all the characters i dont like. i would get rid of at least:

big the cat - hes thick as a brick, but hes not funny, so he becomes mind numbingly annoying.

cream the rabbit - and her chao thing. i think that she was incredibly annoying, always being so cute and nice, and having that incredibly high pitched helium voice. now that i think about it, a grownup/future badarse version of her would actually be hilarious, but whatever.

shadow the hedgehog - he gets a lot of retcon and stuff, and he takes himself way too seriously. normally i can deal with something with a serious nature, but not when hes in a much more lighthearted series. the extreme contrast makes him seem incredibly emo.

the three bird characters from the riders games - especially storm, the big dumb one. i might let jet live if he got a less annoying voice. hey, sonics gonna need a rival once shadow dies.

knuckles the echidna - i never really liked him. he gets annoying because hes not as badarse as he thinks he is.

seven: make the characters who dont die grow up a bit. sonic games these days look like they were made for five year olds. but most of his fans are people who were around when he was still good, and if i remember correctly, his first game was from 1992. im probably wrong on that, but the point is that most of his fans are probably at least twenty years old. also, some of the characters who are in the series are pretty young. seriously, according to the manuals tails is eight and cream is six. maybe this is why everybody hates all of sonics friends. theyre all kids. i think if tails were the same age as sonic, he would learn to shut up for once, and maybe he could do some cool stuff with his mechanical abilities, like making... i dont know, something cool

eight: maybe let a different studio try their hand at a sonic game. actually a lot of complaints might come from the fact that japanese are obsessed with cuteness the way that westerners are obsessed with badarsery. not that its a bad thing, i hate having nothing but badarse characters and cute characters are a nice changeup. however they might have taken it too far. so i think it would be cool if a western developer made a sonic game, just too see the difference. also much of the bad voice acting comes from the translation and dubbing process, so whaddaya say we give them a taste of their own medicine?

now whats left of the sonic franchise that you can still recognize?

thats all i can think of now (whew). but this isnt gonna happen as long as yuji naka is still around. you know why? cuz hes incredibly egotistical and mean, and its actually his fault most of sonic team left. hes almost like a super tim buckley (the CAD guy). so my last suggestion:

nine: fire yuji naka, and the entire sonic team, preferably from a cannon as someone said above me. scratch that, fire them into space on rockets.
 

Goldeneye103X2

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MarsProbe said:
Goldeneye103X2 said:
He was talking about tails. But i guess i could keep in knuckles.
Ah yes, so he was..:) Still, you played Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles right?
I played a tiny bit of sonic 3, and sonic &knuckles is my all time favorite platformer. You cannot get better than that. S&K did for sonic what SMB3 did for Mario. I own sonic mega collection plus so of course i played them.
 

Ursus Astrorum

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A swift and fiery death is the only cure at the rate he's going.

Otherwise, if they eliminate everyone but Sonic and Tails (and maybe Knuckles), and return the gameplay to the original ultralinear runny-jumpy-bounce on enemies style, we should be good.
 

MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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Goldeneye103X2 said:
I played a tiny bit of sonic 3, and sonic &knuckles is my all time favorite platformer. You cannot get better than that. S&K did for sonic what SMB3 did for Mario. I own sonic mega collection plus so of course i played them.
Too right! Backwards compatibility was sooo exciting, back in the old days! Anyway, back on topic, if they can make another good Sonic Rush like game (featuring the original characters) and avoid sticking the word "adventure" onto the end of the name, then there may be some hope at least...
 

Flour

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Based on my sonic experience which means the demo for sonic unleashed, a few hours with some GBA game and around 10 hours in adventure 2 battle five years ago(the one that's on dreamcast and ported to gamecube)

Make sonic run slower than in unleashed, and a bit faster than in A2B.
Levels should be long, fast and rewarding to skilled players.(shortcuts that require extreme luck for new players and "average" timing for experienced players)
Remove the possibility to die/fail a mission, but make fast completion times and ring amounts a requirement to unlock special bonus missions.
Add some bonus material, maybe unlocking placeholder models to use in levels.(who didn't want to use that "adult in a diaper" model to kill enemies in god of War?)
100% completion unlocking one of the old sonic games.
 

Bob_F_It

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May 7, 2008
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Stop making them? How about this: Stop buying them!
The one who's beating the dead horse isn't Sega, it's fucking fanboys who won't shut up. Sega see Sonic as a cash cow that'll rake in the money every time because retards will just go ahead and buy it, completely disregarding previous form and current opinion.
 

Penitent

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They need to work on Sonic's controls.

Returning to Sonic's roots is precisely what Sonic Team should NOT be doing. Each 3D Sonic game has been trying to copy and paste the 2D style of levels; straight-forward, non-stop 2D. But the third dimension confuses this immensely; they feel the need to shoe in a 3D element to each level, hiding helpful or even necessary stuff out of sight and forcing the player to break momentum. They also punish the player for making mistakes not by going back to repeat them, but by awkward movement controls (more on this later) and a woefully flawed, linear camera system that discourages exactly what the mission design is trying to encourage. Thus, not only do they try to directly port the 2D style and standard, but they ridicule it with out-of-character additions to the basic level. If it's not the port to 3D itself that ruins each game, then it is the senseless, misguided notions towards change.

The two main problems in Sonic games are the controls and additional features, both of which are massively criticised each and every time. If Sega can just solve these, then Sonic will be on a respectable standard once again. The comparative example, which has solved both of these issues thus far, is Sonic's rival, Mario.
Super Mario 64 is praised for its flawless, beautiful execution of platforming the third dimension. To quote Tom Endo's article 'Parents Just Don't Understand', Mario 64 "was about movement". It was about feeling free, moving freely, moving anywhere, doing anything, everything, and more than what you imagined you could do. The objective was no longer to get to the flag post and move on to the Castle stage of a set number of linear, set-designed worlds; it was exploring a large, vibrant, lively world, guided only by a vague hint and the player's sense of adventure; there were no real limits. These are among the reasons why it's so critically acclaimed. The point being here is in relation to the previous point.

Sonic's games are still trying to be Sonic in 2D, a tactic which Nintendo knew would not work for Mario.

Which is possibly why Sonic Team insist on new features and characters to utilise these features. Robot fights as Dr. Robotnik Eggman in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, Silver in Sonic '06, Werehog Sonic, etc. They seem to assume that by adding something Sonic players have not experienced before, something different from the Sonic experience into the game, then that will be welcomed in the eyes of critics and the like. This is probably where much of the budget and time development for each game goes - in my present experience in Sonic Unleashed, the Werehog levels are better designed than several Sonic ones (I speak of platforming, not of beating up enemies). Climbing up poles with the wiimote and being able to move with actual control over Sonic is much more fun than "running" up a hoop or dealing homing attacks into enemies that just stand there and do nothing.

However, Sonic Team are missing the point, and it is something I can link back to Mario. Super Mario 64 had several new additions to the game, such as the Wing Cap, Metal Cap, riding on Koopa shells, and many other mechanics that were totally alien to previous Mario instalments. However, these did not change the essence, the feel of Mario games that was so renowned, at all, (though some like myself would argue that they augment it considerably, they definitely do not detract from it). The mechanics change, the objectives change, the worlds, Mario's health system, the possibilities, the settings change, but no change is ever made to the spiritual essence itself. It's the same thing that makes a fan mentally shout "It's Mario!" when they play a Mario game. When Mario's jumping, he's jumping. When he's got a power-up, he's got a power-up. When he dies, it's a...okay, the example I'm looking for is best found in Galaxy where it's a silly little remix of the Mario death animation, 'cause the 64 death tone chills me. When he runs out of health, you simply start over and laugh at the silly yet amazing adventure it all is.

This spirituality is a key asset which is lost in translation for the Sonic series.

Even if the Werehog design is good, it is completely irrelevant to all emotions synonymous with Sonic. Certain Knuckles missions in Sonic Adventure 2 Battle were probably the closest to a proper translation that Sonic has received in his games so far, simply for the feel of rush and platforming with a Sonic-esque atmosphere adapted comfortably to a 3D world, which is why replicating the 2D Sonic standard into a 3D game is redundant. Sonic Team does not need to change Sonic, they need to evolve him. He needs to mean something more than holding the control stick in one direction and waiting for a jump or platform gap to come in his way.

Linking back briefly to controls, this is a problem that was most evident (for me anyway) in Sonic Unleashed. Sonic's great at running forwards, and side-movement along with drifting is well handled. However, the development of the player's control over him is short-sighted; navigating Sonic in the temple shrines in Unleashed is pathetically difficult unless he is in Werehog form; he just won't move sensibly. The camera does not adapt to his surroundings at all, and we have no control of either moving it or zooming in or out - the marks of a budget game. Again, Mario does not have these problems. They need to work not on making Sonic faster, but more flexible. I prefer playing as Werehog Sonic at the present moment simply because I can control what he's doing, even if it doesn't feel like a Sonic game at all (it would if there were simply more platforming obstacles - stretching his arms out is a missed opportunity, as it could have been much more than it was). It's for these reasons that I personally believe The Secret Rings to be the best 3D Sonic, simply because it was on-rails (though even here they missed the point).

In conclusion, Sonic Team needs to realise that not only is the gap between 2D and 3D massive, but they must adhere to it much more than they are now. Too little time is probably spent on developing a Sonic game (see the gap between Sonic '06 and Unleashed). Sonic's next outing needs a lot more polish, testing, helpful feedback, and understanding of its protagonist and past models. Sonic simply being fast is not enough to impress us anymore, I believe.

And I believe I don't need to speak about the plot or cast. :V