Think Modern Warfare 2 is already controversial?

[Dudemeister]

Why is everyone kicking off over this so much?
Why the hell do games have to be judged according to a different set of standards to all other forms of media ?
If this was the opening of a film, nobody would bat an eyelid, but since it's a game. Shock! Horror!
How come films and books are praised for challenging their audience and yet games are expected to be a black and white, good guy/bad guy affair. Maybe it's about time some games grew up and started to ask questions of their audience.
If this is real, Infinity Ward should be congratulated.

 

[Syndef]

Yeah, the videos have been removed.
But I think I know what people are talking about. It's the intro scene, right? There's a bunch of low-quality recordings on YouTube. Look up "modern warfare 2 intro".

 

[brainless906]

Why is everyone kicking off over this so much?
Why the hell do games have to be judged according to a different set of standards to all other forms of media ?
If this was the opening of a film, nobody would bat an eyelid, but since it's a game. Shock! Horror!
How come films and books are praised for challenging their audience and yet games are expected to be a black and white, good guy/bad guy affair. Maybe it's about time some games grew up and started to ask questions of their audience.
If this is real, Infinity Ward should be congratulated.

1) Agreed
2) Agreed
3) Agreed
4) Props to IW

 

[renner-08]

yeah, anyone have a good link? these two arent working

 

[Good morning blues]

I'm simply stating that people find things controversial way to easy these days.
Also pointing out that they seem to only do it when the feel like it, making there position a weakened and striped one.

I.E. killing civilians of the Innocent type has been going on forever.
i can name game after game after game where it happens.
yet NOW we decided to be offended?
THAT is pure ignorance.

and as for your "clearly visceral and realistic scene....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
your taking that from a first off "rumored" video that is so damn low quality its beyond funny

I think that gunning down unarmed, innocent civilians at an airport is pretty legitimately controversial. It is having the player assume the role of American culture's number one enemy. It is casting the player as the most extreme form of "bad guy" available to us right now.

It's the context that makes this one. When you're killing innocent people in other games, you're doing it for no reason at all, or on your way to some other, more culturally acceptable goal. In this one, you are killing innocent people because you are a terrorist. Tell me any other game that takes itself seriously where this happens.

Additionally, it is indeed a clearly visceral and realistic scene. I'm assuming you've seen the official trailer or played any of the other Call of Duty games. They are visceral and realistic games. That trailer may be grainy and low-quality, but the game itself will not be.

I agree that this sort of thing should absolutely be allowed, but the arguments you're putting forth here are pretty weak.

Why is everyone kicking off over this so much?
Why the hell do games have to be judged according to a different set of standards to all other forms of media ?
If this was the opening of a film, nobody would bat an eyelid, but since it's a game. Shock! Horror!
How come films and books are praised for challenging their audience and yet games are expected to be a black and white, good guy/bad guy affair. Maybe it's about time some games grew up and started to ask questions of their audience.
If this is real, Infinity Ward should be congratulated.

I'll tell you why: because video games are a participatory medium. We are not watching terrorists kill these innocent people, we are the terrorists, and we are killing these innocent people. This is a fundamental difference that is going to be unsettling to a lot of people, and that's completely understandable.

And to me, it's a good thing.

 

[atomictoast]

This is spreading a message to people, and it's not IW's fault that people don't like looking at things they're uncomfortable with. I never thought I'd see a FPS become art, but IW can do it.

 

[happysock]

Looks like the videos have been removed

 

[atomictoast]

Dude, I personally can't believe they're doing it. It's going to freak people out and I feel its a bit of a publicity stunt...but the concept itself is...really creative. I'm not going "LOL KILL INNOCENT LOL ANGST" like all my friends are currently but from an artistic standpoint, its ground-breaking. It's questioning the morals of all players and forcing them to think in ways they never have, even if it makes them feel uncomfortable, which it will.

 

[brainless906]

I'm simply stating that people find things controversial way to easy these days.
Also pointing out that they seem to only do it when the feel like it, making there position a weakened and striped one.

I.E. killing civilians of the Innocent type has been going on forever.
i can name game after game after game where it happens.
yet NOW we decided to be offended?
THAT is pure ignorance.

and as for your "clearly visceral and realistic scene....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
your taking that from a first off "rumored" video that is so damn low quality its beyond funny

I think that gunning down unarmed, innocent civilians at an airport is pretty legitimately controversial. It is having the player assume the role of American culture's number one enemy. It is casting the player as the most extreme form of "bad guy" available to us right now.

It's the context that makes this one. When you're killing innocent people in other games, you're doing it for no reason at all, or on your way to some other, more culturally acceptable goal. In this one, you are killing innocent people because you are a terrorist. Tell me any other game that takes itself seriously where this happens.

Additionally, it is indeed a clearly visceral and realistic scene. I'm assuming you've seen the official trailer or played any of the other Call of Duty games. They are visceral and realistic games. That trailer may be grainy and low-quality, but the game itself will not be.

I agree that this sort of thing should absolutely be allowed, but the arguments you're putting forth here are pretty weak.

Why is everyone kicking off over this so much?
Why the hell do games have to be judged according to a different set of standards to all other forms of media ?
If this was the opening of a film, nobody would bat an eyelid, but since it's a game. Shock! Horror!
How come films and books are praised for challenging their audience and yet games are expected to be a black and white, good guy/bad guy affair. Maybe it's about time some games grew up and started to ask questions of their audience.
If this is real, Infinity Ward should be congratulated.

I'll tell you why: because video games are a participatory medium. We are not watching terrorists kill these innocent people, we are the terrorists, and we are killing these innocent people. This is a fundamental difference that is going to be unsettling to a lot of people, and that's completely understandable.

And to me, it's a good thing.

Haha, i quite enjoy you, you actually show signs of intelligence.
a respectialbe thing in modern day forums.
That is to say when i ague my points i have nothing against you, in fact i hold you in a position of utmost respect.

however what you are saying is complete nonsense.

Maybe on a point of "OMG 9-11" "OMG TERRROORRRISSSMMMM"

however this is complete ignorance on the human level.
what you are saying is that killing an innocent person AS a terrorist is worst then killing an innocent person as the hero of the story?

in either fashion you are killing a innocent person, in fact as the hero it should logically be worst, simply because the hero of the story is in fact killing an innocent person.


However that thought is pure bull shit as well, either way you are taking an innocent life.

you're are merely saying that Taking a innocent life is in fact BETTER in some situations.
This is ignorant, either way YOU ARE TAKING AN INNOCENT LIFE, REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS YOU ARE.
the gravity of the situation should in fact be the same.

however i can see how people could take this as worst and im am quite disappointed in this.
such a ignorant race we are.

BTW,
i mean no offence to anyone merely posting my opinion so if your going to flame me then kindly GTFO. thank you.

 

[Heeman89]

It's questioning the morals of all players and forcing them to think in ways they never have, even if it makes them feel uncomfortable, which it will.

I think this is what makes it controversial, in games like GTA/Saint's Row you can technically NOT kill any innocent people (but it makes the game boring...) this here puts you in the situation and forces you to play it out.

That being said I applaud IW for doing this, honestly I think it will add to the story when you start playing as the hero... You know what they did, now its time to stop it. I'll admit the scene did make me feel uncomfortable but that's what it is designed to do, build up for the story and it was done particularly well. I also applaud IW for doing this in the modern day post 9/11 world, I think it will remind everyone that the world isn't all Rainbows and Sunshine...there are people out there that do this, and they need to be stopped...

 

[clixx13]

Brainless, I'm wondering why you refuse to believe that context has anything to do with why this is shocking to some people.

You think, as a country that has largely feared this exact thing happening to us, it's unreasonable for some people to be disgusted, afraid, angry, that this imagery is in a form of entertainment that our younger generations will be taking part in themselves? Thousands, millions of people were personally affected by 9/11, that's not just speaking of human weakness and people's weak wills, that's a fact. Thousands of people died that day, and now we're in the shoes of people committing the very same acts that hundreds of millions of people have been afraid will happen any day for almost a decade. You don't think some people are allowed to feel this way?

The world isn't black and white, it's various shades of gray. While I do not condemn this game or IW for creating this sequence, I do understand people's opinions in the negative about it and I think they are completely justified in feeling the way they do.

 

[clixx13]

It's questioning the morals of all players and forcing them to think in ways they never have, even if it makes them feel uncomfortable, which it will.

I think this is what makes it controversial, in games like GTA/Saint's Row you can technically NOT kill any innocent people (but it makes the game boring...) this here puts you in the situation and forces you to play it out.

That being said I applaud IW for doing this, honestly I think it will add to the story when you start playing as the hero... You know what they did, now its time to stop it. I'll admit the scene did make me feel uncomfortable but that's what it is designed to do, build up for the story and it was done particularly well. I also applaud IW for doing this in the modern day post 9/11 world, I think it will remind everyone that the world isn't all Rainbows and Sunshine...there are people out there that do this, and they need to be stopped...

I completely agree. I have seen many things on the internet and I am all for freedom of expression in media, and this sequence gave me chills. It made me uncomfortable. It's amazing to me that a game can now do that, instill such emotion in someone that sometimes looks at crime scene photos for fun. I think it'll be very interesting to play this, and I'll definitely have to keep this sequence a secret from my parents if I decide to buy it. They were very personally affected by 9/11 and I can't see them understanding why their son is enacting a terrorist act on US soil for entertainment. Which is understandable.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

If you're trying to offend me with your hyperbolic insults it's pointless, there are worse things in life than the flames of aggresive little internet trolls who take thier nerd rage out on people with a different view than themselves.

If you read my post again (with both eyes this time), you will notice that I said 'in a game of serious tone'.

Running over peds in GTA is funny because it's cartoony and exaggerated, this scene is clearly designed to be a visceral and realistic interactive experience of murdering innocents.

Which to me would be a very uncomfortable experience.

But hey, you're welcome to stew in your dogmatic, single minded views, after all, who needs to discuss anything on a forum when you can just insult people?

you sir, insult me.
Don't mistake me for you're token "trolling nerd" with gratuities amounts of this "nerd rage".

Suddenly you say GTA is funny? since when?
In fact GTA IV has been insulted in multiple instances simply because its to gray, to real, making it a lesser game in comparison to a unrealistically funny game such as saints row.

I'm simply stating that people find things controversial way to easy these days.
Also pointing out that they seem to only do it when the feel like it, making there position a weakened and striped one.

I.E. killing civilians of the Innocent type has been going on forever.
i can name game after game after game where it happens.
yet NOW we decided to be offended?
THAT is pure ignorance.

and as for your "clearly visceral and realistic scene....ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
your taking that from a first off "rumored" video that is so damn low quality its beyond funny.

However I AM NOT a you normal internet twat, i realize you have an opinion and i realize you are completely entitled to it, and i respect you for it.

however you are quite pushing the limits by expecting me to respect your opinion when you so blatantly shoot down my own.

Either way, i mean no harm, merely posting my opinion.
sorry for any misunderstandings .

Sincerely,
you're "typical internet rage filled nerd"
Brainless

OK... did I say I found it controversial? No.

I said I found it made me feel a bit sick, and that it made me uncomfortable.

That is not a choice or an opinion, that is a gut reaction. Something that cannot be controlled.

I agree that people should not condemn the game for its content, however it does make me less likely to want to play it as I would definately not enjoy that sequence.

Everyone has different definitons of fun, funny and upsetting. Obviously you do not find that sequence upsetting and that is fair enough. But I do, which means that IW have probably done exactly what they set out to do, create a tense, harsh experience that causes disgust and anger in the gamer.

I just hope they are doing it for a reason rather than just to cause controversy.

Look at it this way... another example... I have no problem with the Saw movies and thier violence, but watching people being tortured upsets me so I just don't watch them.

I didn't shoot down your opinion, I shot down the last line of your post due to its unneccessary insulting adjective count.

I think we're actually on the same side here, just have different personal preferences about what we do/ do not want to partake in in a game.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Wow, I am just about the most un-offendable persom I know, and I have to admit that kind of made me feel a bit sick in my stomach.

I know IW are probably trying to make a point about 'seeing the horror of war up close' or 'challenging the player's morals' here, but there's just something about it that rubs me up the wrong way.

I really don't want to play a game of serious tone that makes me kill innocent people.

I think you might inadvertently have come across an interesting realization that most people who play video games rarely come to, namely there is absolutely nothing grand or glorious about warfare. Hollywood, for a very long time, only depicted warfare as glorious and heroic, but eventually movies came along and had the audacity to point out just how terrible and ultimately pointless warfare can be (The first such movie I can think of is a bridge too far). Video games are coming along nicely in this respect.

Regardless of what you're tastes are in video games, let it be known - in any war innocent people will die. Be it intentionally or by happenstance it will happen. What's worse, in any aysmetic battle, determining who is a valid combatant and who is not is nearly impossible, a problem that has plagued every nation who has ever been forced to wage such a war.

 

[Good morning blues]

Haha, i quite enjoy you, you actually show signs of intelligence.
a respectialbe thing in modern day forums.
That is to say when i ague my points i have nothing against you, in fact i hold you in a position of utmost respect.

however what you are saying is complete nonsense.

Maybe on a point of "OMG 9-11" "OMG TERRROORRRISSSMMMM"

however this is complete ignorance on the human level.
what you are saying is that killing an innocent person AS a terrorist is worst then killing an innocent person as the hero of the story?

in either fashion you are killing a innocent person, in fact as the hero it should logically be worst, simply because the hero of the story is in fact killing an innocent person.


However that thought is pure bull shit as well, either way you are taking an innocent life.

you're are merely saying that Taking a innocent life is in fact BETTER in some situations.
This is ignorant, either way YOU ARE TAKING AN INNOCENT LIFE, REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS YOU ARE.
the gravity of the situation should in fact be the same.

however i can see how people could take this as worst and im am quite disappointed in this.
such a ignorant race we are.

BTW,
i mean no offence to anyone merely posting my opinion so if your going to flame me then kindly GTFO. thank you.

Clixx13 made the point about as well as I could hope to, but I'll clarify what I'm saying. This is a great development in my opinion; I'm glad Activision isn't to squeamish to put in a scene that is going to fundamentally challenge the audience. But it is completely legitimate to be challenged and horrified by this sequence. This sequence speaks directly to one of the most deeply-rooted fears in Western society. People are going to respond negatively to this sequence because they are in the shoes of the most horrifying boogeyman available to them. This isn't like playing as a gangster, which has been glorified in the media for decades. You, here, are playing as The Enemy.

You're talking like people weren't affected by 9/11 or the war on terror. That's about as unrealistic as it gets.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Wow, I am just about the most un-offendable persom I know, and I have to admit that kind of made me feel a bit sick in my stomach.

I know IW are probably trying to make a point about 'seeing the horror of war up close' or 'challenging the player's morals' here, but there's just something about it that rubs me up the wrong way.

I really don't want to play a game of serious tone that makes me kill innocent people.

I think you might inadvertently have come across an interesting realization that most people who play video games rarely come to, namely there is absolutely nothing grand or glorious about warfare. Hollywood, for a very long time, only depicted warfare as glorious and heroic, but eventually movies came along and had the audacity to point out just how terrible and ultimately pointless warfare can be (The first such movie I can think of is a bridge too far). Video games are coming along nicely in this respect.

Regardless of what you're tastes are in video games, let it be known - in any war innocent people will die. Be it intentionally or by happenstance it will happen. What's worse, in any aysmetic battle, determining who is a valid combatant and who is not is nearly impossible, a problem that has plagued every nation who has ever been forced to wage such a war.

Totally agree.

We have always gamed for fun, and now it has evolved to the point where storytelling is much more effective so true darkness and horror can be achieved in the medium.

I am open minded about this but I may just skip the level on my second playthrough if it makes me kill civilians.

 

[bigbananadave]

Im not sure if this is the same vid to the one previously displayed, but im sure its a good enough replacement, however the video quality is very poor it still gets the message across. MW2 IS going to be very contiversal.

MW2 airport siege:
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Modern-Warfare-2-Airport-Controversial-Opening#play

To be honest i would have thought nothing much shocks me but seeing that video made me feel a bit sick, nonetheless Boycott the new Modern warfare 2?

....Not a change in hell! i cant wait, only 14 more sleeps.

 

[Internet Kraken]

Well to any gamer this will be fine.
in fact to any human being this should be fine.
people are way to touche' these days.
its a fucking game.
get the fuck over it.
sorry for my hash language however this is something i feel strongly about.
what is the human race coming to.
have we nothing better to do but start a controversy over some fucking pixels shooting some other fuckin pixels?

in the end anyone who is NOT a gamer may find it controversial. in fact this will be held above the head of "violent video games = violent people" argument.

however any twat who decides this is wrong is nothing but a mere idiot and should be shunned from society. get over it. god. some people can be such r-tards. >.>

I don't understand this logic.

Assuming this scene is a significant event in the game, then I can understand why they would put it in. It establishes how brutal and disgusting the big bad is. It forces the player out of there comfort zone to show them the horrors of war. You're supposed to get emotional. That's the only point I can see to the inclusion of such a horrific event.

But if it's just a game, and not meant to be taken seriously, then what would be the point of such a scene? If you're not supposed to get emotional over this, then I can't imagine why they would include this in the game. It would just be tasteless. I think the developers want us to treat it as more than just a game.

 

[AdambotLive]

Well to any gamer this will be fine.

its a fucking game.

get the fuck over it.
sorry for my hash language however this is something i feel strongly about.

what is the human race coming to?

have we nothing better to do but start a controversy over some fucking pixels shooting some other fuckin pixels?

This will be held above the head of "violent video games = violent people" argument.
get over it. god. some people can be such r-tards. >.>

Edited for my views.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Well to any gamer this will be fine.
in fact to any human being this should be fine.
people are way to touche' these days.
its a fucking game.
get the fuck over it.
sorry for my hash language however this is something i feel strongly about.
what is the human race coming to.
have we nothing better to do but start a controversy over some fucking pixels shooting some other fuckin pixels?

in the end anyone who is NOT a gamer may find it controversial. in fact this will be held above the head of "violent video games = violent people" argument.

however any twat who decides this is wrong is nothing but a mere idiot and should be shunned from society. get over it. god. some people can be such r-tards. >.>

I don't understand this logic.

Assuming this scene is a significant event in the game, then I can understand why they would put it in. It establishes how brutal and disgusting the big bad is. It forces the player out of there comfort zone to show them the horrors of war. You're supposed to get emotional. That's the only point I can see to the inclusion of such a horrific event.

But if it's just a game, then what would be the point of such a scene? If you're not supposed to get emotional over this, then I can't imagine why they would include this in the game. It would just be tasteless. I think the developers want us to treat it as more than just a game.

After watching again I noticed that the character's movements and walking speed look more slow and controlled than the way we play the game, so I am guessing 99% chance that it will be a non interactive cutscene.

Which relieves me to be honest. I don't want to kill civs in an airport.

But seeing it happen will of course be a powerful storytelling tool.