A little bit of both, I think.Kukul said:I don't know if I should laugh or cry.sizzle949 said:Yes... that's the great research, I'm not joking. They polled average Americans and used that as evidence. .
A little bit of both, I think.Kukul said:I don't know if I should laugh or cry.sizzle949 said:Yes... that's the great research, I'm not joking. They polled average Americans and used that as evidence. .
Haha cry Kukul, cry.Kukul said:I don't know if I should laugh or cry.sizzle949 said:Yes... that's the great research, I'm not joking. They polled average Americans and used that as evidence. .
Nice...but over thought the rights given to us can be broken down into hundreds or thousands of things we take for granted, while they are not a expressly given right the nature of them makes them a freedom as valuable as any freedom that's specifically defined as law is driven to become a revenue maker and platform for career politicians everything surrounding the defined freedoms/rights we are given will be mired in so many rules and regulations we might as well live in a fascist totalitarian nation.Khell_Sennet said:Highlighted the biggest flaw in your argument.ZippyDSMlee said:Ya know what comes out of factories and cars in such great volume is worse than 2nd hand smoke.
This anti smoking non sense has gotten so bad you can't smoke in a separate room in a restaurant anymore... every right they take away leads to 2 more things they find problematic for the public that has to be limited...its a nasty slippery slope that is going to take all freedoms away because everything has a dozen rules to it.
Smoking was never a right. There is no line in the US or Canadian Constitution that grants you the right to smoke. It is not a right, it is a privilege. In fact, as I have said once already, if the government decided tomorrow that cigarettes are in the same class of narcotic as cocaine or lsd, then it's Goodbye Charlie, no more smokes for you.
So a pedophile or necrophile isn't a sick person, nor are their actions sick, because it's in the pursuit of pleasure? A rapist/murderer who gets his kicks chopping the feet off women is not sick? Or on the non-criminal side of things, a fecalphiliac is not sick? Or how about a coke head, shooting up for a high, then crashing hard. Waking up in a puddle of his own excrement, only to shoot up again. Is that not sick?Terminalchaos said:Health matters aside people have the right to pleasure and pursuit of pleasure is not sick.
This thread was never about cars. We know cars are bad, but cars are a necessary thing. Cigarettes are not, no matter how much a smoker may insist they are.People do get cancer from being in areas with a lot of cars - look at the statistics for particulate matter and cancer rates in major cities. Some factories sure as hell have negative health effects as well.
I say again. Smoking is not a right. SHOW ME where it is listed as one, and I will capitulate. Show me where the law specifically states that people have a right to use and/or abuse tobacco. On the same note, driving is not a right. You have to apply with the government for the privilege to drive. At any time, for any reason, they can take that away from you. JUST LIKE CIGARETTES.Cigarettes are a pleasure and people have every bit as much right to them as driving.
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Individual rights to self expression/pleasure shouldn't be violated- people can smoke without violating your rights and to declare it should be illegal is a very kneejerk and selfish move.
The pollution argument is that of a three-year-old. Not only is it totally unrelated to the topic at hand, it's unrealistic, and irrelevant. But you say that people can smoke in places to no ill effect. Did you know that the local wildlife is getting cancer? The toxic shit from your smoke butts, which most of you fucking smokers just toss on the ground instead of dispose of properly, leaks out of the butts when it rains and is polluting the plants and poisoning the animals. Smoking is a vile habit, and the people who smoke are completely oblivious to the damage they do to those around them. I'm not sure if smoking makes people assholes, or if it's just assholes who like to smoke, but smokers are fucking pricks who care only for their nicotine fix, fuck the rest of the world. I just can't wait until cigs are banned completely.As far as your right to not breathe smoke vs my right to smoke: A. first don't pollute- EVER then you have a leg to stand on. B. There are many areas where people can smoke without negatively affecting people. Also your logic could also apply to many things that offend my lungs such as driving, foundries, and large factories. Loosely it could also be applied to people that have too many kids but thats a side issue.
secondedTerminalchaos said:Get rid of our cars and pollution spewing factories then ***** about 3rd hand smoke. Seriously people need to get their heads out of their asses.
ok fine if you dont want to be called an idiot for the first statement but this one pretty much proves itTerminalchaos said:Sir I am not an idiot and I decry your intelligence for making such an egregious error. I believe your cogitative capabilities are seriously lacking.lizards said:your an idoitTerminalchaos said:You are a bit judgmental. People have the right to smoke and it isn't a sick addiction - at least anymore than any other addiction people have. I get sick from cars, factories, barbeques and burning leaves -should I punch all those transgressors? I see much of our pollution as a sick fucking addiction if that's how you phrase smoking. Seeing your rant makes me want to light up and I don't even smoke.Khell_Sennet said:As a fellow asthma sufferer, I agree.lacktheknack said:An athsmatic speaking:
If I smell any cigarette smoke AT ALL, even on clothes, my lungs fill with mucous to wash it out, and I can't breathe.
So it's an issue to me, yes.
Basically, if I'm around someone who WAS smoking, I suffer an asthma attack. It can be light, to the point I just suffer a few minutes and I'm good, or it can be to the point where I need my inhaler.
If I'm around someone who is CURRENTLY smoking, it's a severe attack which guarantees I need my inhaler, and could send me to the ER if exposed long enough.
And if I were to actually smoke, we skip the ER and I go straight to the morgue.
So third degree smoke isn't the worst thing, but it still has an effect. And I am inclined to punch anyone who causes me an asthma attack because of a sick fucking addiction they should have outright banned long ago.
Bans are a violation of our civil rights- we have the right to smoke, drink, eat poorly, and party. If you drive and ***** about smoking you're a hypocrite (unless you drive a full electric car from a region that gets power from hydroelectric, wind, or another airsafe method of electricity generation.)
ok now that we got that out of the way heres why:
1 how is it not a sick addiction? it gives you cancer,heart disease, fucks up your lungs, and makes a number of phyiscal changes (like yellow teeth wrinkles) and for what? not a reason in the world thats what
2 it gives not only yourself these things but it gives others them
3 no where in the constitution does it say anything about smoking and were is founded today it would be banned
4 your arguements are invalid because (for example) in resturants smoking makes their work environment unsafe
to put this into a metaphor: a resturant starts filtering carbon monoxide into the resturant for no reason at all, while it may not hurt the employees directly they will experence health defects
that is one of the best metaphors ive used in this debate hm.....wait a second this seems to be what smoking does.......
5 the difference is people dont get cancer from driving cars and cars sure as hell dont increase peoples chances of being cancer that are around them again your arguement is invalid because cigerattes are unliked not because of air pollution but because of the health risk
6 if someone could invent a cheap affordable solar powered car then people would use it BUT offer a cigeratte patch, gum, injection, or whatever they will not use it dont try to deny that because their is all those things (minus the injection part to the best of my knowledge
grow up
You call my argument invalid at every turn (incorrectly I may add) yet use logical fallacies instead of true arguments to counter.
Health matters aside people have the right to pleasure and pursuit of pleasure is not sick.
Many other common activities are harmful to the collective health yet we still eprsist.
People do get cancer from being in areas with a lot of cars - look at the statistics for particulate matter and cancer rates in major cities. Some factories sure as hell have negative health effects as well.
People have the right to do as they will and I think the antismoking sentiment is s bit naziesque.
I have said nothing of restaurants and will treat that argument as a straw man.
Your arguments are completely invalid or false sir.
Cigarettes are a pleasure and people have every bit as much right to them as driving.
Benefits are subjective- whatever smokers get from smoking may very well be worth whatever negative affects it has- its the person who has the experience that has the right to judge that experience, not an outsider.
Individual rights to self expression/pleasure shouldn't be violated- people can smoke without violating your rights and to declare it should be illegal is a very kneejerk and selfish move.
As far as your right to not breathe smoke vs my right to smoke: A. first don't pollute- EVER then you have a leg to stand on. B. There are many areas where people can smoke without negatively affecting people. Also your logic could also apply to many things that offend my lungs such as driving, foundries, and large factories. Loosely it could also be applied to people that have too many kids but thats a side issue.