This is How The World Ends...

[Easykill]

Who cares? We'd enjoy ourselves doing it. And it seems more likely we'd starve... Unless we had machines to farm for us. Hopefully not AI though.

 

[Letsplayskatch]

There is a simple prediction to your query, DkSeraph.
So let it be said: What goes up, must come down.
How? Haven't a clue - though hypothesizing is nice. Though for any real semblance of a 'more-than-likely' outcome, you just need to turn to the history books. The Romans, us Brits, the Saxons and Vikings etc.

Simple.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I think you misunderstand my point--how is the fact that "imprisonment without justice has been going on since gaol's were first built" relevant to my point that this isn't "the first time a liberal western democracy enthusiastically gave up civil liberties in the name of security from terrorism"?

I understood it; it's just been going on since the idea of a democracy first took place, and before that way back into Monarchy, Feudalism etc.
AFAICR, Germany was a democracy during the early part of last century? And that at least started as a liberal western democracy.

None of that has to do with how *bad* they are, though: all of that only has to do with how *dangerous* they may be, how much of a threat they pose.

I've lost your point completely now. Danger = Threat, surely?

The OP made a point about evil, not danger or threats, at least the way I read the post. That is what I was responding to in the part you disagreed with.
I think you've confused me talking about how *evil* as the members of a group are, and how much of a *threat* or *danger* that group represents.
I.e., the difference between how bad people would like to make the world, and how much of a chance they have of actually making the world so.

Ok, that makes more sense, but do you count evil as successful evil, like Terrorism, or unsuccessful evil, like you could argue that Scientology is?

And can you even define evil any more than you can define good? Is the Death Sentence evil, good or neutral?

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Umm, I'm probably not qualified or really in the right to comment, but if It had to go, ideally, umm Civil war? Please God,anything other than a foriegn invasion.

Pushed to far any nuclear power would roll out the ICBMs, and then it's good bye humanity hello Fallout 3.

 

[UberNova]

The world is so unstable at the moment that an accurate prediction would be hard to grasp.

All I can be sure of is that the next "great" war will be over resources. Like chips and salsa. lolz

 

[StevieC]

*takes a DEEP breath before saying this entire paragraph faster than Yahtzee recording a Zero Punctuation Review*

Let me start this off by saying that I do happen to be an American citizen who is VERY miffed at Shrub and his corrupt cronies. I think that the only reason someone would call criticizing the Bush admin "un-American" is if they're a McCarthyist who still tried to side with Nixon during Watergate. I know that may tick off some of rednecks in the so-called Bible-Belt but frankly they seem to forget that one of the major values for America has always NEEDED to be separation of Church and State. For one I believe we have foolishly ignored the warning Dwight Eisenhower gave in his farewell Presidential address to the American people about the dangers of letting the then new-born Military Industrial Complex go unchecked, and now it's come back to bite us in the arse. Yes I'm using the British wording because my dad's half British Canadian and I live in Michigan surrounded on three sides by Water and Canada and on the 4th side by Ohio and Indiana. My point on the other hand is this: We need to escape from the trap of political dynasties like the Bush, Kennedy and Clinton dynasties which are starting to look more and more like the inbred royal families that led to the fall of mainland Europe, and I think one way to do this is to elect a black President although it saddens me to say I think Barack Obama would last about 6 months in the Oval Office before some bible-thumping redneck pops a bullet through the man's brain reducing Obama from the genius he is to a martyr for the downtrodden a-la Martin Luther King Jr. and Jimmy Hoffa, so if he DOES want to win the election he needs a world-class running mate and I'd pick Dennis Kucinich. He's bowed out on the Presidential level but he's the one man I think is most qualified for the job. Of course hire Gore as secretary of the Interior, the Woz as secretary of Education and get someone with an actual clue about technology to be Chairman of the FCC. Legalize timeshifting and COMPLETELY repeal the bloody Digital Millennium Copyright Act so that consumers can have their Fair Use rights back. Kill the news media deregulations and go after Rupert Murdoch. Sorry Yahtzee, I know you're an Ozzie but it's guys like Murdoch who give the land down under a bad name. That man alone should be the national shame of the continent of Australia. Sorry for the rant though you hit a nerve but in the sense that I actually AGREE with DkSeraph about our government devolving back into a Gilded Age pseudodemocracy which harkens back to the days of post-Civil War 19th Century corruption, which is why I am such a Stephen Colbert fan but I'd better shut up now so I have time to take a breath before I die of hypoxia.

Cheers,
Stevie-C

 

[DkSeraph]

People often like to assume that politicians or indeed anyone in power is a cruel person who enjoys tormenting other for their own benefit. But i am actualy naive enought to believe that politicians strive for the best of their people, not everyone agrees what course of action should be taken; but do they want to be "A giant boot stepping on the face of humanity for ever"? I think not.

I believe politicians come in three flavors: the idealists (of whom you would most like to believe them all to be), the megalomaniacs (of which I would assume there are few, if any), and the bureaucrats. I feel about 75% if not more of our politicians call into this last category. These are the people who might seek office for altruism (first group) or power (second group), but stay in power because they like the benefits, privileges, and influence that it gives them. It's power, but with a subtle 'p'. There's nothing wrong with liking the benefits of your job. I've loved jobs before: the pay, the free lunch cafes and espressos, the parties. But my job was software development, not making laws for a nation and if asked to create something that I might not agree with, my acquiescence would not hurt people.

The problem with today's politics is that politicians crave their lifestyles and will often compromise too much to maintain them. I don't fear that we'll have a cabal of evil senators take over the nation. I fear we'll have a single leader who manipulates their fears and desire to consistency and stability to undermine the very foundations of our nation. That leader might not even believe what they do is wrong. They might believe what they do is necessary for the good and prosperity -or even security and survival- of our nation. Despots who are evil for the sake of evil rarely survive, except for in science fiction and fantasy novels. Despots who are evil for the sake of good... Hitler was evil because he chose evil means to bring about a good aim: the rejuvenation of the German nation. Lenin was evil because he chose evil means to combat what he felt was an evil institution: the royalty of Czarist Russia and the excessive privileges and extra legality of the ruling classes. Both are unequivocally evil, but both chose a cause many considered 'good' to rise to power.

So, I ask you: does that sound familiar? Terrorism is beyond the scope destructive and evil in it's means, but can we justify sacrificing our rights to combat it? The rights of others? Like I said, we live in interesting and potentially devastating times. And all it takes for our government to fail us is not 'by being evil' but simply by not saying 'no' out of fear of personal loss.

As a history major, I've often wondered this myself. Like other people above, I believe we are beginning our decline. Machiavelli was right on target when he said that people will let their governments do what they please as long as they don't touch their family or their stuff. Why work for change when you can instantly feel happy with entertainment and mind altering substances?

Exactly.

I think the American goverment will become so fearful of Terrorist attacks that it will constrict and choke itself with its own security and secrecy. Maybe its just wishful thinking though, if America is going to fall I think it would be beautifully tragic for the "Land of the Free" to destroy itself by taking away the liberties of its people.

Exactly, like I said above. Our (American culture) world will end, not with a bang, but with a whimper. Like a whisper in the night, we'll stay asleep in our creature comforts and not notice how much our nation has changed, is changing....

"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common. Children no longer obey their parents. Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world is evidently approaching."

Found on a stone tablet, circa 2800 B.C.


Don't worry about my cynicism, I'm just a Goth.

Wow, did you just say that *I'm* a sign of the comping apocalypse? now I feel guilty...

It's amusing and very telling that this thread is called "this is how the WORLD ends" when it's about America. America is not the whole world.... However America's days in the sun as the world's superpower are probably over. Empires rise and empires fall, that's just the way it goes. China is looking pretty well positioned right now to be the superpower of the 21st century.

First off, it's a popular quote, so it's probably best for you NOT to read too much into it. You instantly took my comments to a place few else who cared to read and understood presumed to take them. That being said, while America is not the center of the world, it's naive to assume it doesn't play a very large part in it's continued prosperity. America's economy, technological and structural contributions, and our military presence are not aspects of our nation that can easily be disregarded. It America were to implode today, spectacularly, the world would go to seven shades of crap. Would the world at large survive? Oh yes, but it'd be unpleasant for many for a while.

Additionally, China is not nearly as prosperous as your imagine, the World Bank recently revealed [http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-mead30dec30,0,1035099.story] that China's economy was about 40% less than originally assumed, in reality a $6 trillion dollar economy as opposed to a $10 trillion dollar economy. That's a little more than half to size of the US economy for a country with an infrastructure several times larger and more complex. I doubt they could step in easily to replace the US and Western Europe on the economical playing field.

They had a major part in creating the middle east as it is today

We also played a major part of creating Europe as it is today. Or rather preserving it. That being said, I won't disagree. America's biggest problem (as Cheese said it earlier) is that we are trying to export democracy by bayonet as opposed to economical prosperity. Iraq was a large mistake on so many fronts and it's a sin we'll be paying for (along with much of the world) for decades, perhaps centuries.

"When Fascism comes to [Unites States] it will be a cross wrapped in a flag"

Bigoted and stereotyped, but I'll agree to this point: "When [any religions icon] is wrapped in a flag, Fascism comes to the united States." To contradict your ignorance, I give you this statement. Religious fascism would require a ruling orthodoxy (that is: a single sect to take control). No other religion in the World is potentially as diverse in sects as Christianity. I won't name the dozens of sects, but here's some rough facts: Catholics 24%, Baptists 16%, Methodist 6%, Lutheran 4%, Non-Denominational 7%. Even were Catholics to rise up, I guarantee that the Baptists would never agree with their 'Holy Constitution'. No one sect of Christianity could ever effectively parlay the other sects to follow them. Christians just see things too differently, even within the religion. Any religion can be extreme and destructive, if allowed to rule a nation, not just Christianity. But by all means, close your eyes and envision a bloody-toothed Christ rampaging across the Earth, if that makes you feel less ignorant and bigoted.

And finally, Cheese_Pavilion: if I ever get to writing about the ideas forming from what I'm reading, I'm going to get your contact information. I must have access to the CheesePavipedia!! or is it CheeseWiki? I MUST KNOW!!!

 

[Mr Wednesday]

"I am your shield, I am your sword
This is how the world ends"

So, if the Halo 3 trailer is anything to go by, it'll end by not ending.

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

We'll probably end up pissing off some alien race that will come and burn Earth and take us as slaves to build some giant statue made of solid gold or something. What, it happens in movies???

Ok, thats a lie. We shall all fall from either of these three things, or a combination of them.

1. A massive civil war brought about between Hilary and Obama

2. Getting nuked by Iran after 60000 Iranians throw a nuke at us with a slingshot

3. Bush 'accidentally' hits the Planet self-destruct button when he goes out of office (you know how he can't resist big shiny red buttons)

 

[StevieC]

The sad part, Cheeze_Pavilion, is that I was NOT joking or looking for a laugh with my comments, and the remark you made about wanting to see Hillary as Obama's VP makes me wonder how you could even consider claiming to be a gamer. Hillary is widely know as being vehemently anti-gaming. At least Kucinich would provide a solid ethical foundation if he were vice president.

 

[grimmjack66]

I have tried to read every post in this thread so as not to repeat something that has already

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKu2QaytmrM

America puts all our dirty laundry out for everyone to see. Americans vocally disagree with everything our Local, State, and Federal Government does, or fails to do. We broadcast those views on every type of media available to anyone and everyone in the world. I think people look at this from the outside and think this is a weakness...but to me it shows how strong we really are. We have our problems but we don't hide them and we try to fix them, even if it takes decades to accomplish the change.

The Internet has thousands of "Bush Sucks", "America Sucks" pages...people like Alex Jones, Art Bell, and Jeff Rennse (SP?) are making millions talking about how America has turned into "Amerika" and how Big Brother is controlling everything..."Buy my book at Amazon, Boarders, or my Website to read how the US government is trying to shut me up..." Righhhtttttt.

I lived in Germany for three years and visited the UK, Spain, France, Italy, Poland, Russia. spent a lot of time in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. I have been to Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti.
I spent two years in South Korea and visited Japan, Thailand, and the Philippines. I grew up near the Canadian boarder around 40 minutes from Montreal.

I just mention this to say that every where I have been has had its good parts and bad parts, just like the USA. But for anyone from these countries to pass judgment on America is just a bit of... sort of... kind of... hypocrisy.

I also have learned that when you meet someone one on one, no matter where they are from, or what their government says they represent, all want the same thing,

Beer and Women!

 

[stompy]

Why work for change when you can instantly feel happy with entertainment and mind altering substances?

Whoa, please tell me you meant the 'Brave New World' reference. Anyways, that thread about the USA and fascism (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.54488) kinda supports my theory that should the US fall, those in power will try anything to stay in power, and society (I mean the whole world, not just the US) will either not care about it, or be too afraid, due to the amount of military power the US has.

 

[stompy]

Why work for change when you can instantly feel happy with entertainment and mind altering substances?

Whoa, please tell me you meant the 'Brave New World' reference. Anyways, that thread about the USA and fascism (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.54488) kinda supports my theory that should the US fall, those in power will try anything to stay in power, and society (I mean the whole world, not just the US) will either not care about it, or be too afraid, due to the amount of military power the US has.

 

[General Ma Chao]

Why work for change when you can instantly feel happy with entertainment and mind altering substances?

Whoa, please tell me you meant the 'Brave New World' reference. Anyways, that thread about the USA and fascism (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.54488) kinda supports my theory that should the US fall, those in power will try anything to stay in power, and society (I mean the whole world, not just the US) will either not care about it, or be too afraid, due to the amount of military power the US has.

That's part of it, but I'm betting on the first one. The rest of the world would not care or just laugh at our misfortune.

 

[DkSeraph]

That's part of it, but I'm betting on the first one. The rest of the world would not care or just laugh at our misfortune.

That'd be a mistake, as a Fascist America would almost certainly be an expansionist America, moreso than even the alarmist now are proclaiming it now to be.