This is why I hate "Fake Geek/Gamer Girls"
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well, given the topic, got to break this into two sections....
1. Concerning girl gamers. Never thought of games as a "boys only" thing, given my sisters played with me, my habit of trying to rope at least one of them into playing with me on whatever game I enjoyed at the time (goldeneye 64, slappers v. throwing knives fights were hilarious), and were skilled as I was most of the time. So when it comes to gender, no, the hobby isn't gender specific and any complaint about that is stupid. However; this goes to the next point.
2. The idea that the hobby is becoming more mainstream and the backlash against that. Now this I have more sympathy for. I've been gaming for a long time now, and while I am not so stupid to say I have "cred" or some bullshit, I do have a deep affection for the media and hobby and have had it for a long time. When I see someone identifying themselves as a "gamer" I often have to feel wary around them now though, be they male or female. This isn't so much an aspect of feeling better then people new to the hobby, but rather a distrust and frustration with how the term "gamer" itself has become less distinguishing and the people who try to opt into it who do not share the passion or dedication I do. I don't want to use the term "casuals" as that seems more to reflect a preference for a style of game, but it is more so... posers? Yes, I think that might be the right word. When I interact with someone like that, I suppose it would be similar to what a sports fan would feel trying to interact with someone who says they are as well, but don't understand half the rules of the sport, has a shallow understanding of teams and is more interested in being part of something larger then in the sport itself. It just feels fake, as if they are hanger's on and sad to say, many don't even express that much interest in trying to learn more. It is like a lack of passion for the hobby and instead merely a means for whatever social goal they have.
It is hard to word right, I think, why member of a group, a fandom or hobbyists would react negatively towards others trying to participate with them, but I myself often feel it when it comes down to the lack of passion or just the lack of shits given outside of how it helps their social goal. And it isn't about different preferences. I hate most FPS, but I can still hear the excitement and enjoyment in the voice of someone telling me about a wicked kill streak they pulled. I hate LoL, but I can still relate to the way someone will gush about a really good night. And for the most part, they seem to understand the same when I get into my own experiences in game. Some people though, and I don't exactly understand why except it being the "in" thing, seem to just call themselves a gamer but lack any sort of real passion behind it. And that in turn does effect the hobby. The rise of easier games, dumbed-down games, "broader appeal" game design...I know most of that stems from poor decisions in the industry, but those decisions are made because they see the swell of gamers, both enthusiastic and non, and start to try to cater to get new people, often at the expense of those that have been there for decades now because it is assumed that since they have stuck around so long, they are already safe bets they will for more.
So to wrap up, I never thought of this issue as much of a gender one, but one relating to popularity and how a sudden influx of posers can change the hobby I enjoy. I believe others pointed out how that affected genre of music over the years (and how in response to the influx, the aim of the music switched to the new demographic, narrowing the amount of people and money directed at what was enjoyed in the first place), and I am sure there are other things that exploded in popularity and as a result felt saturated by people who acted more like tourists then impassioned fans or hobbyist. I suppose given that a higher percentage of newer gamers ARE female, it leads to that mentality being misplaced on the gender, or being confused as gender specific. Makes things messy that way...
1. Concerning girl gamers. Never thought of games as a "boys only" thing, given my sisters played with me, my habit of trying to rope at least one of them into playing with me on whatever game I enjoyed at the time (goldeneye 64, slappers v. throwing knives fights were hilarious), and were skilled as I was most of the time. So when it comes to gender, no, the hobby isn't gender specific and any complaint about that is stupid. However; this goes to the next point.
2. The idea that the hobby is becoming more mainstream and the backlash against that. Now this I have more sympathy for. I've been gaming for a long time now, and while I am not so stupid to say I have "cred" or some bullshit, I do have a deep affection for the media and hobby and have had it for a long time. When I see someone identifying themselves as a "gamer" I often have to feel wary around them now though, be they male or female. This isn't so much an aspect of feeling better then people new to the hobby, but rather a distrust and frustration with how the term "gamer" itself has become less distinguishing and the people who try to opt into it who do not share the passion or dedication I do. I don't want to use the term "casuals" as that seems more to reflect a preference for a style of game, but it is more so... posers? Yes, I think that might be the right word. When I interact with someone like that, I suppose it would be similar to what a sports fan would feel trying to interact with someone who says they are as well, but don't understand half the rules of the sport, has a shallow understanding of teams and is more interested in being part of something larger then in the sport itself. It just feels fake, as if they are hanger's on and sad to say, many don't even express that much interest in trying to learn more. It is like a lack of passion for the hobby and instead merely a means for whatever social goal they have.
It is hard to word right, I think, why member of a group, a fandom or hobbyists would react negatively towards others trying to participate with them, but I myself often feel it when it comes down to the lack of passion or just the lack of shits given outside of how it helps their social goal. And it isn't about different preferences. I hate most FPS, but I can still hear the excitement and enjoyment in the voice of someone telling me about a wicked kill streak they pulled. I hate LoL, but I can still relate to the way someone will gush about a really good night. And for the most part, they seem to understand the same when I get into my own experiences in game. Some people though, and I don't exactly understand why except it being the "in" thing, seem to just call themselves a gamer but lack any sort of real passion behind it. And that in turn does effect the hobby. The rise of easier games, dumbed-down games, "broader appeal" game design...I know most of that stems from poor decisions in the industry, but those decisions are made because they see the swell of gamers, both enthusiastic and non, and start to try to cater to get new people, often at the expense of those that have been there for decades now because it is assumed that since they have stuck around so long, they are already safe bets they will for more.
So to wrap up, I never thought of this issue as much of a gender one, but one relating to popularity and how a sudden influx of posers can change the hobby I enjoy. I believe others pointed out how that affected genre of music over the years (and how in response to the influx, the aim of the music switched to the new demographic, narrowing the amount of people and money directed at what was enjoyed in the first place), and I am sure there are other things that exploded in popularity and as a result felt saturated by people who acted more like tourists then impassioned fans or hobbyist. I suppose given that a higher percentage of newer gamers ARE female, it leads to that mentality being misplaced on the gender, or being confused as gender specific. Makes things messy that way...
I'm glad more and more people are figuring this out.
The simple answer is this: It's annoying. Fakers. No one likes them. Simple as that.
Is it a superficial answer? Maybe. But I believe it is accurate.
If I decide they're nice guys, I might start talking, little by little, just offering my input and trying to help out too. but for the most part, I never talk on my headset.
It's just annoying having to deal with douchebags! I prefer to avoid it overall. :l
The simple answer is this: It's annoying. Fakers. No one likes them. Simple as that.
Is it a superficial answer? Maybe. But I believe it is accurate.
I agree. I'm a girl and I LOVE to play Left 4 Dead 2. I consider myself pretty decent at it (I would never say I'm an expert at any game because that would mean I am incredibly good at it and no one else can hope to stand up to me ever). I often put on my headset just to listen to what my teammates are saying because it's useful. Stuff like "There's a Hunter right there!" and "Let's stick together!". But I never talk. I'll admit I've met less douchey guys and more nice guys but it's the douchebags that I remember and therefore, I just avoid talking unless I have to. I just set my headset on mute.DustyDrB said:
If I decide they're nice guys, I might start talking, little by little, just offering my input and trying to help out too. but for the most part, I never talk on my headset.
It's just annoying having to deal with douchebags! I prefer to avoid it overall. :l
I kinda disagree here. It is less so the aspect of excellence and more so an aspect of someone claiming to be a part of one's "group". Given that nerds and gamers were generally ostracized when it came to being in groups in the first place, it comes off as both a betrayal of all the bullshit they had to put up with in the first place as well as rubbing salt in a wound when after they formed their own group, found friends and something to be passionate about with people who shared their passion and interest, what they have finally carved out is now being invaded by the very people who not years before were assholes to them just because they liked those interests in the first place, who don't seem to care about it beyond a fad and who's presence actively causes it to be deluded into something they don't like.matthew_lane said:
I rarely run into people who judge someone as a nerd or not by how good they are or how obsessed they are in their fandom. All they have to do is express enthusiasm and interest and they seem to be taken into the group without a problem. And usually the ones raising a stick about it are already deemed assholes by the rest of a group anyways. The posers though, well, everyone knows that one "friend" who invites themselves along with other people's activities, who tries to bullshit stories on the fly and is generally scene as transparent leech? Yeah, everyone hates that one. The "I'm such a nerd" movement is that "friend" to the gamer world. and yes, they eat the metaphorical snacks without asking as well.
You do know cartridge consoles were out before cassette gaming right?matthew_lane said:
Magnavox and Atari released consoles in 1972.
ZX Spectrum and Commodore 64 didn't release until 1982 .... 10 years later.
I was born in 1980, 2 years before the release of the cassette generation and you were born in 1984, 4 years after me and 2 after the release. And you were born on the same year I started gaming.
I do believe that "old school" goes to me on that one.
Did you ever run into the problem of having 2 games on 1 side of a cassette and have to keep hitting rewind/fast forward just to find the damn second game?matthew_lane said:
But they were loud.
Sad thing is some of my best gaming memories come from the Spectrum.
Manic Miner was an amazing game.
Trying to get the tape back in.matthew_lane said:
Had a few tapes snap on my when they twisted and I tried to fiddle with that those bloody nobbly things to get it back in.
It's even more annoying when it didn't read the cassette properly and you have to start all over again.
Looking back, some of the games were great fun but how the hell did we ever cope?
oh god...that picture, i could easily mine through my facebook and find identical posts/quotes to all of those, if not more. that's a solid example of what grinds my gears on occasion (it happens in person too, just not as blatant) and of course it will get 30 likes and 4 people going "LOL! OH EM GEE such a nerd!"Eri said:There's not some arbitrary line that gets drawn that is a firm decrier of what is and isn't gamer/nerd. But there are obvious signs. Such as the ones in the video.Rastelin said:
..just *sigh*
"Geek" and "Nerd" are words in the English language. Words change over time. Their meaning shifts and mutates based on social movements, innovations or various political or ideological considerations. Like it or not, being a nerd close to 2013 is not the same thing as being a nerd in the eighties or nineties. Things, quite simply, change.Toilet said:
Ergo, your argument that these two words refer *exclusively* to a group of people who are characterized, among other things, by their marginal state and their inability to satisfactorily connect with others is frustratingly reductive. You're not considering what it is that people experience nowadays, while playing games. You're considering what we used to experience as kids, back when the hobby was still as esoteric as the kids in Computer class in the sixties and seventies who'd go on to become the forerunners of the Home PC revolution. You're still considering gaming from the point of view of the privileged kid with the Atari 2600 who had enough money to blow on what was a very exotic pastime.
Gaming has gone mainstream, and that's something that's happened over several of its assumed forms. The very fact that we have people like Felicia Day and Vin Diesel openly claiming to be gamers in front of celebrity outlets is proof that things have changed. Like it or not, we will *never* go back to the halcyon days of comfortable exclusivity.
Those fake gamer girls you're railing against? The cute, adjusted ones who dare to whip out their 3DS and their casual Mario experience in front of your Skyrim-guzzling self? These reasonably content women who don't fit your offered presentation's established mold of the persecuted brainy waif?
They're gamers.
As much as you are and as much as I am. Those "Dude-Bros" we keep railing against? Gamers. The Farmville-obsessed mom? Gamer. The grandma who never fails to line up for a round of Wii Sports bowling at the rec room and who doesn't have a care in the world for Super Mario Galaxy? She's very much a gamer.
Why is that? Because she derives enjoyment out of the activity - said activity which just so happens to be a console game.
You can't measure someone's arbitrary worth by the intensity of their activity. Not in our common domain, anymore. It's too mainstream, too common for the sheer STRENGTH of your gaming habits to count as a factor. I've seen my own mother drown days in Bookworm Adventures while I'd be hard at work kicking Alduin's ass for the seventh time.
The truth of the matter is that "Fake Gamer Girl" refers to nothing at all. It's an imagined threat that's being popularized by marketers doing the smart, honest, cheesy and impractical thing, which is tying thematically appropriate titles with human values like sex-appeal. "Hardcore" also means close to nothing, now. You either have playing habits or you don't. You can be pretty damn hardcore at Words with Friends, or you can be hardcore with Mass Effect 3. Both work, none of them has any additional value over the other.
Aren't you just being a tad angry about this issue, OP? Because you're railing at windmills, man. Cute girls with zero personal problems *do* play games, now. "Gamer", "Nerd" and "Geek" are not radiant, exclusive mantles for some supposed social strata to wear.
Not anymore.
How and why is this a problem? Why must we try impress the next bloke that we're more of a nerd or a geek than they are? A true nerd could care less. We have enough problems on our own to care about the titles other people claim to themselves.
Based on what, exactly? There is no context to these, no understanding of who these people are. They're single snapshots in time.Eri said:
Okay, I love your post, but I really have to ask. Has anyone really questioned Vin's gamer cred? I mean, the guy played oldschool D&D, which should establish him as geek material alone, but it also makes it hard for me to doubt he's played more than Dudebro shooters or whatever.IamLEAM1983 said:
Not to the point of gamer, but I suppose one of the big problems I have with the fake "geek" deal is a lot of people apply it in a way that indicates popular people or people who engage in popular activities can't be geeks.
My gaming circle in high school involved two football players. Neither were destined for the NFL, but both of them played football as part of an organised school sporting team and so on. Then they played D&D and Vampire and Trinity and such with me. And both played video games, too.
Everyone in my gaming group touched a boob. Even the two girls. Like, we weren't so socially awkward that we couldn't get sex or have relationships. Most of them played video games, so there is SOME overlap here.
I don't know much about Felicia Day except that she can't seem to act, so the same defense may apply to her, too. It may not. But it does come back to the point that the attractive social girl someone criticises as fake might have grown up on Battletoads and the original TMNT game. She might have hardcore raid sessions over the weekend. She might be a "true gamer" even by the definition being floated here. Or she might nerd out over "casual" games, which still makes her a gamer, of course, but I was going more for the approach a lot of people are taking.
I don't like the gamer/casual divide, period. My first console was the Odyssey 2, which predates the NES. I grew up on broken, hard to beat games and I beat a fair share of them. Dick Tracy comes to mind, since I keep hearing it's "impossible." And my favourite game these days? Rock Band, part of the so-called "party" genre that was only being played because it's a fad. I play Plants vs Zombies, played Castleville for a nice period of time, etc.
Yet I still play a lot of other games and still play a lot of old titles out of nostalgia. Still, to a lot of these folks, I'm a filthy casual and not legit.
Anyway, most of this was in agreement with your talk about words and usage, but I kind of rambled because this sort of thing really does chafe me a bit.
So this debate is probably the dumbest thing that I've experienced of late and, as such, I'll just apply for this.Draech said:
1. None. I dislike Tabletop gaming.
2. None.
3. "A slave obeys."
4. I think it's Dexterity
5. Nope
6. Caeser, but only because his salads are fantastic.
7. M. Bison, Elena, Urien
These last few will take too long and I'm in a hurry.
What I just don't like are poseurs. Regardless of gender. The fact that "cool" people or those in the "in" crowd believe they're the ones who are "true" and "kvlt" (going to apply this to Metal as well) just annoys me to no end. It gets to the point where I become an outcast in my own scene because of those kind of people outnumbering those of us who were there first 
I don't want to sound like a hipster but I mean, we were here first, and then they just come in, outnumber us, and throw us out of our own scene by ridiculing us for not liking it as much as them. It's annoying and a little sad is all
I don't want to sound like a hipster but I mean, we were here first, and then they just come in, outnumber us, and throw us out of our own scene by ridiculing us for not liking it as much as them. It's annoying and a little sad is all
Yah, i'll agree, it is annoying when anyone, regardless of gender (though we do tend to see this more often with girls, just cause hey, lets be honest, it's a lot easier to be noticed on youtube if you are an attractive girl), plays games like Farmville or something for a few hours and suddenly acts like they have the know-how to commentate on it.
However, that still doesn't give us the right to shun them from the community or start calling them out on it, the same way a professional athlete shouldn't just call someone out for pretending to know about their sport. Gaming, like all things, will have people who love it, people who don't like it, and people who pretend to like it. The best and easiest thing to do is just ignore those who pretend to like it for the sake of attention, and move on.
Now I will say this though, as I did grow up liking video games and trust me, i remember what it was like having to almost hide the fact that I played them, for sake of being called a nerd and cast out. And yes, it is sometimes infinitely frustrating seeing someone on youtube that clearly doesn't play games, go on and talk about them, and that little voice in my head says "no! you didn't have to feel like a nerd about it growing up! you didn't save the princess, you didn't save hyrule, you can't just walk in and make my childhood outdated!" But thats not fair, because even though they may not know what it's like to be the nerd for liking games, everyone should still have the right to talk about them and enjoy them. It's no longer a boys club, or a special cult for those that grew up with them, and if someone, whether a girl or guy just seeking attention, wants to talk about games, fine, they aren't hurting you, or anyone else.
However, that still doesn't give us the right to shun them from the community or start calling them out on it, the same way a professional athlete shouldn't just call someone out for pretending to know about their sport. Gaming, like all things, will have people who love it, people who don't like it, and people who pretend to like it. The best and easiest thing to do is just ignore those who pretend to like it for the sake of attention, and move on.
Now I will say this though, as I did grow up liking video games and trust me, i remember what it was like having to almost hide the fact that I played them, for sake of being called a nerd and cast out. And yes, it is sometimes infinitely frustrating seeing someone on youtube that clearly doesn't play games, go on and talk about them, and that little voice in my head says "no! you didn't have to feel like a nerd about it growing up! you didn't save the princess, you didn't save hyrule, you can't just walk in and make my childhood outdated!" But thats not fair, because even though they may not know what it's like to be the nerd for liking games, everyone should still have the right to talk about them and enjoy them. It's no longer a boys club, or a special cult for those that grew up with them, and if someone, whether a girl or guy just seeking attention, wants to talk about games, fine, they aren't hurting you, or anyone else.