Thoughts About Getting Offended...

[Twintix]

(Yes, I predict that this topic won't go downhill at any point...Oh boy.
Also, I'm sometimes bad with words, so if any part of the below upsets you or pisses you off, I'm sorry and I didn't mean to. I invite to discussions and debates, not shitstorms,so please, please be civil.)

Ah, whatever...I have a feeling I'm going to end up regretting making this thread. But I just feel like I want to say this. Besides, if you don't do something you'll regret sometimes, things get a bit boring, right?

Recently, I watched an episode of a Let's Play Versus (You can say whatever you want about Let's Plays, but I love watching them) where two guys play Ty The Tasmanian Tiger against each other. The topic of getting offended came up, and both guys had a discussion that kinda boiled down to "People should stop being so easily offended".

This got me thinking about the nature of getting offended, or whatever you can call it. I'll try to seem as unbiased as possible, because I'm boring like that as I find both sides being right and wrong, depending on the area of discussion. If I, at any point in my rambling, seem biased, it isn't my intention.
Also, bear with me here, because it's going to be a looong one.

See, I agree that some people really should get a thicker skin and that nothing is sacred, but also that there's a time and place for everything, yadda yadda yadda, I'm sure most of you agree with that. We've talked about this. You're a swell bunch.

However, sometimes, there's a certain..."defensiveness" going on that confuses me a little. That some people get offended by other people getting offended by something they said. I think most people brush the offended people off, because honestly, some people are extremely vocal and rude about what they get offended by. But some people take these comments and launch into a small rant about that they should get to joke about anything they want and people shouldn't complain about it.

If the above part didn't make any sense, what I'm trying to say is: I don't understand the "The Complainer Is Always Wrong" mentality. I believe that some complaints are perfectly valid, and they should sometimes (NOTE THAT I SAID SOMETIMES; NOT ALWAYS) be taken into some consideration. Of course this is close to impossible on the Internet, because there's always going to be someone getting offended by something, but maybe just a "I mean no harm with what I said, please don't take it personally, but my jokes with always offend someone and I can't please everybody" should be enough. Sometimes, (AGAIN, SOMETIMES) you can apologize, and you don't need to respond so..."defensively". Though I believe that it's sometimes best to not say anything at all.

For an example, let's bring up a "controversy" that everyone would prefer to forget about but I'll bring up anyway for the sake of discussion, and that I hope we will be civil about in the comments: The JonTron "Retarded" Controversy.
(Let me start by saying this: I like JonTron. I love his videos, I think he's funny and quite talented. I simply don't think that he's the bastion of comedy that people think he is)
See, what most people got upset about from what I gathered wasn't the fact that Jon used "retarded" to describe a feature on the PS4. (Or was it the controls? I don't remember) Some people did, I'm sure, because like I said, everybody gets offended by something. No, from what I understand, people got mad when Jon responded, rather childishly, to a person who mainly just wanted to give him a polite heads-up that some people would take offense to the word being used. At least, it seemed that way to me.
Now, should Jon have apologized for using the word? To the person who first brought it up? No, I don't think so.
Should he have apologized for insulting him afterwards, though? Well...yeah. Nothing major, just a "Sorry, but I deal with this all the time and it's quite tiresome". Nothing more.
So what do I think he should've done? Nothing. I don't feel that he had anything to apologize for at the start, but the response he gave didn't really paint him in a positive light. The best course of action, I feel, was that he should've said nothing.
"But he's an Internet Comedian, it was probably a joke!" I've heard some people say. Yes, probably. Jon isn't exactly known for being wholesome and squeaky clean. But it just came off as childish.
With that said, the shitstorm afterwards was dumb, dumb, dumb. Yes, what Jon said was tactless, and I don't think being a comedian excuses his response, but I feel that he really didn't deserve the outrage that ensued.

Here's something important to consider: Just because you don't find something offensive doesn't mean that others don't either, and there are sometimes reasonable explanations for this and the arguments aren't always invalid.

I once saw an edited picture of a doujinshi panel where the text bubble said: "MY OPINION IS THE ONLY CORRECT ONE! SHUT UP!". Some terribly witty person commented "SJW in a nutshell". Thing is, though, I've also seen this reaction from people who think that others should stop getting offended. I don't know, seems a bit...what's the word? "Hypocritical" is a bit too strong, so it doesn't fit...
(Personally, I think that the edit describes every side of every argument that has ever existed.)

Ah, I seemed a bit biased there, didn't I? Well, let's talk about the flipside, which is also important to consider: Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right, and it certainly doesn't mean that you have to be rude to and insulting the person who offended you.

From what I gather, most of the complaints I've seen about people getting offended stem from people who get irritated by the offended person getting offended on behalf of someone else. For example, a white American girl who gets offended that someone made a joke about slavery in Africa.

Here's the thing, though: People rarely, if ever, can help just what they get offended by. Maybe it's something they've been brought up to take offense to, maybe they get their opinions from their friends, etc. The reasons are endless. I don't think most people want to get offended.

Most people, that is. What I do think is that some people do want to get offended and will actively seek out topics that rile them up for the sake of having an argument. Why? Maybe they just like arguing. Maybe they feel that they're right because they are offended, as some weird way to feel validated. Maybe they aren't offended at all and just feel like starting a shitstorm for the sake of starting a shitstorm. I don't know, the reasons here are also many.

Now that would be one thing if they just did that. But some people also choose to be rude while talking about that offends them.

Remember what I said about a response being tactless? Well, offended people can also be rather tactless. You know how you can tell someone you're offended?

Spoiler: Not like this would be a good start.

What could the person have done? Nothing. Don't like the blog? Just leave. Nobody is forcing you to read it, and you don't command any respect through being rude and telling people that they should die just because they said "Merry Christmas". Or maybe it's just a troll. That's a possibility also.
(Not to mention, I bet someone else would've been angry about the use of "Happy Holidays" due to it being too politically correct or something. Because that's also a thing that pisses people off, apparently)

Spoiler: This image describes this issue, and any issue, extremely well.

So what did I try to say in all of this? Well, what it all boils down to is that some people need a bit more tact. Can we settle for that? Try to not be tactless. Does that work?

NOTE: Everything stated above is just my opinion. You are free to disagree and tell me if I simply misunderstood something.

Oh, yeah, we need to have a discussion.
Thoughts on my thoughts? Where do you feel the line between "reasonable" and "In desperate need of a thicker skin" goes?
(Also, play a drinking game: Take a shot every time I use "sometimes" and "some" in this post. Or don't. You would probably die)

Spoiler: Thank you for reading through this wall of text. Here's a huge man and a tiny kitten.

 

[the_dramatica]

Don't assume that something has noteworthy rational behind it or because lots of people care about it and it's a topic of controversy, the biggest sin is assuming that drama at all is rational. A lot of the time in internet drama, both sides are completely retarded, and you shouldn't spend calories deciphering their thoughts beyond how the situation affects you.

Most of the time drama happens because people are trying to exploit a mindset or change how people view them, or just have people view them at all. More often than not the actual topic of the drama has no objective meaning, and there is nothing to debate.

So if you see somebody who actually cares about the drama beyond exploiting the situation for status or money and they aren't a friend, then leave them to their ignorance.

As an example, a British king once had a claim on the french crown. It was around 800 years old. He used this to go to war. The statement itself is retarded, and trying to objectify it would be meaningless, but it didn't matter.The french knew that the british just wanted land, the british just needed a reason to deflect complaints from other christian kingdoms for starting an internal war, and so they went to war for over a hundred years.

The nature of people is the be ambitious and push with leads and seal weaknesses, not to objectify issues so that humanity as a whole can work towards macrohedonistic benchmarks.

 

[Strain42]

I have yet to meet a person who says "People should stop getting offended" who isn't offended by something. Many people are totally up for giving their two cents on issues, not caring who they offend, but Poseidon help us all if someone ever says something to offend them. Everyone has a limit, and the way I see it, if you know you've gone passed that limit with someone and they're like "Hey, that offends me." just...don't be an asshole about it.

I have no problem simply apologizing if I offended someone. I don't have to change my line of thinking, I don't have to take back what I said. If I make a dead baby joke around my friends, they'll laugh, I'll laugh, but the single mother sitting two tables away at Taco Bell may not find it so funny. She's not suddenly the bad guy just because she got upset. I would apologize to that woman for upsetting her.

Now that said, I DO think that people (myself included, I've been guilty of this) should maybe tone down on getting personally offended by broad social stuff that probably isn't talking about them directly.

Like if someone decided to wear a Voldemort robe and go on a killing rampage while shouting Avada Kadavra (I'm sure I spelled that wrong, sorry Potterheads) and then someone was like "We need to put a stop these psychotic Harry Potter fans." They aren't saying that ALL Harry Potter fans are psychotic, they're clearly just talking about...y'know...the psychotic ones. The ones that will run around in costume killing people.

Jumping in to be like "How DARE you! I'm a Potter fan and I'd NEVER etc. etc." doesn't really help anybody, including yourself. Obviously no one is gonna come to your house and burn your Harry Potter books.

 

[Prince of Ales]

I think this boils down to whether or not the cause of offense is avoidable by the viewer. What I mean is, if you watch a YouTube video and it offends you, then it's cost you nothing and you're absolutely free to avoid videos from that particular creator again. No point complaining about television while you've got a soddin' remote, y'know? But if you were in a public space, say a bus stop, or a pub, or a library, wherever, and you've got some lunatic ranting about "the wogs and pakis" or something, then at that point you've got a right to complain.

I don't think you ever have a right to not be offended, but I do think you have a right to shield yourself from things that offend you. So you can't buy a porn film and then go and complain about the pornography you witnessed in watching it, but you can complain if a studio decides to shoot a scene outside your front door.

 

[Barbas]

Firstly, because it's freshest in my memory, that's a really small animal.

Secondly, I think it's a good idea, if someone says they found your statement offensive, to ask them to explain why. If you are the person who is offended, you should investigate that feeling. If you can't explain why you're offended, it bears further investigation. The person in your example who said "SJW in a nutshell" isn't someone I'd respond to in that situation. Could I convince them to think otherwise? I don't know, but I'd like to think probably. Do I feel like trying to? Depends on how tired I am; no point in doing it if I'm tired and my heart's not in it.

 

[Redd the Sock]

My own experience is the the offended rarely justify their offense properly, and even rarer why the offendee should care. Taking a simple example: my Mom hates cursing, but I don't know why. Society seems to go along with this as it's still a word you can't say on network TV. Yet strangely you can say any number of synonyms, from the poetic making love, to the scientific coitus, to the still very crass banging, bopping, boning, screwing, humping....you get he point. So why is fuck offensive when words that convey the same activity aren't?

That's where a lot of my issue is. Asking me not to offend you contains an element of selfishness. You want me to put e3xtra thought into what I say for your benefit and no benefit to myself. It isn't always unreasonable, but at the same time it needs to be presented as a proper request. Justify why, and maybe toss in a "please and thank you" for good measure. I say this because I do believe that like my mother, a lot of offense is something we're programmed to have but don't really get why, or at least didn't think it out. So much of what is called offensive online is called out as if using the word "retarded" in a negative light is somehow your opinion of every person with a developmental disability. It sounds illogical, but that's what the justification is, and you can never convince the offended that isn't the case. I mean, if I said something like "retards need to die" I get why that would offend just about anybody. But as a synonym for stupid, it's just egotistical to take the term personally.

 

[Batou667]

For an example, let's bring up a "controversy" that everyone would prefer to forget about but I'll bring up anyway for the sake of discussion, and that I hope we will be civil about in the comments: The JonTron "Retarded" Controversy.

With that said, the shitstorm afterwards was dumb, dumb, dumb. Yes, what Jon said was tactless, and I don't think being a comedian excuses his response, but I feel that he really didn't deserve the outrage that ensued.

I know it's a bit below-the-belt to pounce on this, but consider the casual and offhand way you just used the way "dumb". "Dumb" is, in its original and most literal meaning, a description of disability. In its more common sense, it's a synonym for "stupid", and therefore also an ableist sentiment since it connotes being mentally subaverage with an insult.

Now, I'm not offended, and I know for a fact that you meant no offence by it - and I'd wager these are the exact same circumstances that the "retard" comment was made in. But what if somebody objected to your use of the word "dumb" and attempted to "call you out" on it? You'd think they were thin-skinned, or possibly even being overly sanctimonious just for the sake of being confrontational or projecting a morally-superior image. In short, there's a good chance you'd be offended by their offence - especially if they were arrogant or aggressive about it.

So yeah, I'd say people do need to take less offence - or more accurately, give benefit of the doubt more often, and not feed the trolls. That probably applies to both sides, although in my opinion it tends to be politically liberal people who are the most vocal, the least willing to let an imagined affront go, and most morally absolutist in their stance.

 

[Dave In A Cape]

The first thing that springs to mind for me about this subject is the thing that Stephen Fry said.


?It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

People will disagree but I personally agree with his statement.

 

[Lieju]

Generally the only people you see saying "Stop being so offended" are people who themselves are easily offended in return.

Haha yes.

You can certainly be offended for stupid things. The fact that I'm openly lesbian and atheist has been a cause of great offense for several people.
I have heard of such comments as 'Stop looking down on heterosexual people', or 'Why do you hate men??' and 'So you think I'm wrong about my faith?' for nothing more than stating my sexual orientation and the lack of religion.

And they're very quickly to throw the 'stop being offended' around if I point out I'm kinda worried for how acceptable some homophobic shit is.
It's not really the fact that I'm offended that's a problem, it's that when I'm in a company where casual homophobia is just acceptable, I feel unsafe and am worried.

On other hand, I don't think heterosexual men are in any actual risk over someone being openly lesbian.

I only really use the term 'offensive' in pointing out stuff if I have reason to believe the person talking didn't actually understand it might be offensive.
I think the last time I pointed out I was offended by something was when someone said that 'Of course adopted siblings don't actually love each other', and that they're not 'real' families.

 

[Popido]

You being offended is offending me.

Being offended by stuff can get lots of done. We live in the age of outrage democracy.

If theres something that tingles your trigger, don't be afraid to raise an outrage about it. People are very sensitive towards accidentally offending anyone, so they'll eventually bend with enough push. And never settle for an apologize, because thats just the sign you broke them, so keep pushing harder.

One of the good ways to get offended is by raising sociopolitical issues. Try to pin, whatever is triggering you, as something people generally perceive negatively. Raise the racist, sexist, pedo and/or rainbow flag and you're bound to gather more people around your cause. You can also tie the offending issue into these flags, if you create couple anonymous inflammable comments against your cause. Once you had enough people to outrage with you, you can start to use more heinous tactics. This usually means going for the finances of what is offending you, but those you need to find out yourself. Remember, people are very very sensitive of their politically correct image, especially corporations. If theres something that is putting them in bad light, they will fix it immediately.

If you enjoy being offended, you can also try to turn it into a job. People willingly give money for a good cause and to help people that are getting offended. Note though that if you make an outrageous lies, bun, people might sue you. Keep the focus of the financial help as just that, financial help. Having large outrage is whats important here, not the cause to it. You want many people to financially support you, but you don't want people to come by and question the nature of it, so we target solely on the few that only care to be offended on your behalf.

You can also say that you're being offended on behalf of the people that are being offended, if you cannot find good enough reason to be offended yourself.

I also suggest not using flags that have supporters to them (although in some situations this can help) or flags that are too toxic to be mentioned.

As a general rule, don't try to think about your cause. You're the one being offended, let everybody else work out how to help you.

 

[zerragonoss]

I think this boils down to whether or not the cause of offense is avoidable by the viewer. What I mean is, if you watch a YouTube video and it offends you, then it's cost you nothing and you're absolutely free to avoid videos from that particular creator again. No point complaining about television while you've got a soddin' remote, y'know? But if you were in a public space, say a bus stop, or a pub, or a library, wherever, and you've got some lunatic ranting about "the wogs and pakis" or something, then at that point you've got a right to complain.

I don't think you ever have a right to not be offended, but I do think you have a right to shield yourself from things that offend you. So you can't buy a porn film and then go and complain about the pornography you witnessed in watching it, but you can complain if a studio decides to shoot a scene outside your front door.

This makes sense in many ways, but I think the problem comes from when you actually like the content that offended you. Like in any case I am sure their are plenty of people who go around looking for things they don't like to comment on how offensive it is. I would though say the vast majority of people who are talk about how offended they are by something actually like that thing, and want to see it improve, or at least want it to not become something they dislike. If not they would likely just go their own way as you suggest. This is easily seen in most of the "something about this video game offended me comments", because it really is something in the game, not the game itself. These complaints tend to be from gamers who played and were probably enjoying said game, and are potential customers for other games from said creator.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Personally I think people who go out of their way to be offended are the most useless people around. It's basically the most entitled version of "first world problems". Someone has no real drama or strife in their life so they search for something to be threatened by. I remember some micro brewery had a beer called "Albino Rhino". So some albino woman got offended and made them change it. She was not, however, a rhino. So I don't see what the problem was.

 

[Erttheking]

Really as much as some people like to say "you're too easily offended" I feel like internet arguing has completely devolved into people trying to out be offended each other. Everyone, EVERYONE, is trying to blame the victim card, the "This is wrong" card. "X is insulting to the audience" "Y is bad for the industry" "Z is an organization of bad people" "Omega is a FRAUD movement"

Let's face it, we all like to think that we're the victim. That we're the underdog. Even if we don't want to admit it.

 

[CaitSeith]

Well... that post wasn't what I expected.

tl;dr Don't get offended by people who gets offended. It's not worth it.

 

[Krai]

My own experience is the the offended rarely justify their offense properly, and even rarer why the offendee should care. Taking a simple example: my Mom hates cursing, but I don't know why. Society seems to go along with this as it's still a word you can't say on network TV. Yet strangely you can say any number of synonyms, from the poetic making love, to the scientific coitus, to the still very crass banging, bopping, boning, screwing, humping....you get he point. So why is fuck offensive when words that convey the same activity aren't?

Are you joking? Fuck isn't just a synonym for sex, it's an expletive. The job of FUCK is to be offensive. We need people to be upset by it or it loses its power. By being offend your mother is giving fuck more power. Really she's doing a service to the word fuck, without her and people like her it wouldn't be able to do its job.

 

[God'sFist]

My own experience is the the offended rarely justify their offense properly, and even rarer why the offendee should care. Taking a simple example: my Mom hates cursing, but I don't know why. Society seems to go along with this as it's still a word you can't say on network TV. Yet strangely you can say any number of synonyms, from the poetic making love, to the scientific coitus, to the still very crass banging, bopping, boning, screwing, humping....you get he point. So why is fuck offensive when words that convey the same activity aren't?

That's where a lot of my issue is. Asking me not to offend you contains an element of selfishness. You want me to put e3xtra thought into what I say for your benefit and no benefit to myself. It isn't always unreasonable, but at the same time it needs to be presented as a proper request. Justify why, and maybe toss in a "please and thank you" for good measure. I say this because I do believe that like my mother, a lot of offense is something we're programmed to have but don't really get why, or at least didn't think it out. So much of what is called offensive online is called out as if using the word "retarded" in a negative light is somehow your opinion of every person with a developmental disability. It sounds illogical, but that's what the justification is, and you can never convince the offended that isn't the case. I mean, if I said something like "retards need to die" I get why that would offend just about anybody. But as a synonym for stupid, it's just egotistical to take the term personally.

I think this video might be of some help to you. It explains why bad words are bad.


OT: I have to agree with what you say. To be perfectly honest I wanted to make a thread like this but I knew that if I did I wouldn't make it with very much tact and I'd be burned down like that and ultimately I would regret making the thread. Really for me what upsets me is extremism. Where the person goes out of their way to act for their cause whether it have good intentions or not. Quite frankly I'm a little annoyed at the french feminist extremists for invading peoples privacy to spread their message of little girls should be able to get action figures and toy-swords and stuff.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Not always, but in my life experience it normally seems that people who are complaining about people being easily offended are people who want to have no restraints.

People who sincerely wish to be outspoken, irreverent, and offensive because they want to be.

But more importantly, they don't want to pay any cost.

They want their actions to have the intended effect, but none of the repercussions. These people tend to be cowards. The beautiful thing about having the guts to actually say things used to be that signified someone who was staunch and adamant about their beliefs. That they have the courage to say what they believed needed to be said no matter what.

Also, in this fraction-of-a-Dime-a-Dozen society where most believe that the right to free speech should only be held to those who share similar beliefs, people hide with the resounding cacophony of safety of twitterfeeds and youtube channels where their ideas are not only accepted, but mandatory to be a part of said community. No one wants to fight for their beliefs any more. They just want to be right. They want those upvotes and plus ones. It's the most addictive drug of the modern day: The delusion of the acceptance of your thoughts being the way the world should be, with the instantaneous 'proof' from a fraction of the world's population.

So, we have cowards who want to be controversial without controversy, and people who are so hopped up on their own self importance that they crafted a world where they are always heeded and celebrated for their 'ground breaking ideas' that anyone who questions them most be wrong in every way.

In the end, people suck, and they'll find different ways of sucking in the future. However, as humans, it is our right to do as such. But we should allow everyone the same right we wish to enjoy.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Its ok to be offended, but dont force it on others, especially when it is over stupid things.Just because something offends a person doesnt mean they can moan and try and ban it for everyone. Look at the feminists getting stores to stop selling GTA5....seriously men get it worse in that game. I think people confuse offense with "i hate it" and i think people intentionally look for stuff to be offended by. Like those that are offended by Jeremy Clarkson, why go on his blog or twitter if you are offended by him? Im offended by shows like Xfactor, reality shows and soaps but i wouldnt complain or stop those that love watching them watch it. What happened to intolerance? If you hate it, just tolerate it. Just spend your time watching/gaming etc that you love instead of concentrating on things you hate.