Thoughts about Pokemon and Discovery

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ManutheBloodedge

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Pokemon is a very nostalgic experience for most, to say the least. And yet, a big part of former fans hated the new pokemon designs, calling them unoriginal and uninspired, while still heralding the design of the generation they grew up with.

I think this nostalgia paired with dislike of the new generation comes from something that made the first games we experienced so great and is sorely lacking in not only todays Pokemon games: Discovery.

With that I don't mean that the games itself have none of it, far from it. But we experience it less, because we know almost everything there is to know about a game beforehand.

Think back. The first time playing Pokemon, you didn't know what kind of Pokemon they were. You had no idea what you would find in the next patch of tall grass, no idea what your Pokemon could became once they evolved (Though the cleverclogs of you may have had some ideas regarding your starter and the box art of the game). You discovered all that while playing, so you were still suprised many hours into the game.

I think this feeling of discovery is part of the Pokemon nostalgia, and it would explain why so many didn't like the new games as much: We don't discover during playing anymore. At least not nearly as much. Nowadays, you know every detail about a game before it comes out. Trailers, coverage, leaks, fans seek out any information about a game while it is still in development. Some out of making an informed buying decicion, some out of simple curiousity.

But in turn, we discover less while playing the game itself. We aren't suprised by new Pokemon anymore because we have seen the whole list months before release. Heck, there are even players who chose their starters based on stats (I see pie charts and Microsoft Excel in the future of those people).

I don't think this problem is only related to Pokemon. So, do you think that we discover less during gaming today because we know so much more about games before they come out? Is this detrimental to enjoying a game? If yes, what could be done about it?
 

Saelune

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Well, I certainly dont disagree. As someone with Pokemon since before the (in the US anyways) beginning, I was one of those lauding Gen 1 as the best. Then Gen 5 came out, and now I hold that as the best. I still favor more Gen 1 Pokemon designs and style, but I certainly felt a strong nostalgic feeling of playing Blue when I was little while playing White.

I really hope Gen 8 does the "Only new Pokemon" thing again, since 6 and 7 were super in your face with old Pokemon. Hell, Sun/Moon is populated by Gen 1 Pokemon more than anything.
 

Bellvedere

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You're speaking as though the Pok?mon series is on the decline. Post Gen II, Pok?mon sales have remained pretty steady (if you compare like games, ie. new main entries with new main entries, remakes with remakes and third version with third versions: [footnote]https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/4kjztn/pokemon_sales_per_game/[/footnote][footnote]http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon[/footnote]). That's not even mentioning Sun & Moon which is currently the fastest selling Nintendo game of all time[footnote]http://www.vooks.net/pokemon-sun-moon-sell-3-7-million-us-85-pokemon-x-y/[/footnote]. That initial decline is better explained by the unsustainability of mid-90's Pok?mania, change in platforms, lack of compatibility between Gen II and III and the soft reboot to the series.

I started playing Pok?mon in Gen I and by the time I got my hands on the game I practically knew every Pok?mon by heart from the anime series. Accessibility of information doesn't change the way people have to experience Pok?mon or any other games (though it does make it easy to learn of them).

I think the fan views can probably just be taken at face value. People like different things, some changes work for them, some don't.

Saelune said:
I really hope Gen 8 does the "Only new Pokemon" thing again, since 6 and 7 were super in your face with old Pokemon. Hell, Sun/Moon is populated by Gen 1 Pokemon more than anything.
I really wish GameFreak would ease up on the Gen I stuff, I don't even need entirely new Pok?mon, just less of the same ones over and over again. It's been possible to visit Kanto in more than half the Generations to date and I completely agree that 6 & 7 have been heavy on the Gen I love.
 

Saelune

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Bellvedere said:
You're speaking as though the Pok?mon series is on the decline. Post Gen II, Pok?mon sales have remained pretty steady (if you compare like games, ie. new main entries with new main entries, remakes with remakes and third version with third versions: [footnote]https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/4kjztn/pokemon_sales_per_game/[/footnote][footnote]http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon[/footnote]). That's not even mentioning Sun & Moon which is currently the fastest selling Nintendo game of all time[footnote]http://www.vooks.net/pokemon-sun-moon-sell-3-7-million-us-85-pokemon-x-y/[/footnote]. That initial decline is better explained by the unsustainability of mid-90's Pok?mania, change in platforms, lack of compatibility between Gen II and III and the soft reboot to the series.

I started playing Pok?mon in Gen I and by the time I got my hands on the game I practically knew every Pok?mon by heart from the anime series. Accessibility of information doesn't change the way people have to experience Pok?mon or any other games (though it does make it easy to learn of them).

I think the fan views can probably just be taken at face value. People like different things, some changes work for them, some don't.

Saelune said:
I really hope Gen 8 does the "Only new Pokemon" thing again, since 6 and 7 were super in your face with old Pokemon. Hell, Sun/Moon is populated by Gen 1 Pokemon more than anything.
I really wish GameFreak would ease up on the Gen I stuff, I don't even need entirely new Pok?mon, just less of the same ones over and over again. It's been possible to visit Kanto in more than half the Generations to date and I completely agree that 6 & 7 have been heavy on the Gen I love.
I feel having 7 have so many Gen 1 Pokemon is odd, cause with Red/Blue/Yellow on 3DS now, and being able to transfer pokemon, youd think they would prefer to have more other gen Pokemon. Maybe Gen 2 or Gen 5, if Gen 4 is going to be remade.

I also wish they would just design Pokemon more like Gen 1, simple. I dont like being a stick in the mud about new Pokemon. I want to be excited, and be like "Wow those are cool!". Honestly, its when they mess with old Pokemon I have the most issue with usually. Alot of Pokemon I hate the most were Gen 4's added evolutions (Probopass, Magnezone, Magmortar) and now Gen 7's Alola forms...yuck.

Many of the actual new Pokemon this gen dont really bother me.
 

Saelune

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Kibeth41 said:
Saelune said:
I also wish they would just design Pokemon more like Gen 1, simple. I dont like being a stick in the mud about new Pokemon. I want to be excited, and be like "Wow those are cool!". Honestly, its when they mess with old Pokemon I have the most issue with usually. Alot of Pokemon I hate the most were Gen 4's added evolutions (Probopass, Magnezone, Magmortar) and now Gen 7's Alola forms...yuck.
I don't see anything wrong with adding to old designs.. It doesn't impact the original in any way at all, it's a nice way to call back to earlier generations to maintain relevance, and it gets us more Pokemon per generation.

Sure, the new Dugtrio design is ridiculous. But I weep for anyone who takes the Pokemon franchise seriously.

Also.. "Make Pokemon more like gen 1". "I hate the new gen 1 Pokemon"
Most of them have just sucked. They got lucky with Gen 2, cause Pichu was super cute, and I do want more Eeveelutions, but except maybe Electovire, most added evolutions, and the Alola forms are just terrible.

And I know you are trying to call me out on hypocracy with the last line but uh, yeah, "be like the old ones, not the new ones". Its like they wanted to take the more simple designs of Gen 1 and add in that over-designed BS of later gens. Dugtrio's stupid hair, Eggexutor's stupid neck, Ratticate's stupid face, and Sandshrew's stupid head.
 

Bellvedere

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Saelune said:
I feel having 7 have so many Gen 1 Pokemon is odd, cause with Red/Blue/Yellow on 3DS now, and being able to transfer pokemon, youd think they would prefer to have more other gen Pokemon. Maybe Gen 2 or Gen 5, if Gen 4 is going to be remade.

I also wish they would just design Pokemon more like Gen 1, simple. I dont like being a stick in the mud about new Pokemon. I want to be excited, and be like "Wow those are cool!". Honestly, its when they mess with old Pokemon I have the most issue with usually. Alot of Pokemon I hate the most were Gen 4's added evolutions (Probopass, Magnezone, Magmortar) and now Gen 7's Alola forms...yuck.

Many of the actual new Pokemon this gen dont really bother me.
I kind of get it as a 20th anniversary thing. The protagonist is from Kanto and there?s a lot of Kanto Pokemon plus Alolan forms of Kanto Pokemon. However between the fact that the main series games never really stopped celebrating the first games and all the extra 20th anniversary Gen I love-y stuff this year (VC releases, PoGo, the extra merchandise, etc), it?s a bit of an overload. Like when a song you love is played continuously. If you count the Alola forms as Gen I Pokemon, they make up 27% of the Pokemon available in the Alola regional dex (22% without).

I don?t really have any complaints about the general designs of Pokemon myself. There?s designs I love every generation, and sometimes there?s ones I hate. Probopass was winning my least favourite until Binacle and Barbaracle.
 

Saelune

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Bellvedere said:
Saelune said:
I feel having 7 have so many Gen 1 Pokemon is odd, cause with Red/Blue/Yellow on 3DS now, and being able to transfer pokemon, youd think they would prefer to have more other gen Pokemon. Maybe Gen 2 or Gen 5, if Gen 4 is going to be remade.

I also wish they would just design Pokemon more like Gen 1, simple. I dont like being a stick in the mud about new Pokemon. I want to be excited, and be like "Wow those are cool!". Honestly, its when they mess with old Pokemon I have the most issue with usually. Alot of Pokemon I hate the most were Gen 4's added evolutions (Probopass, Magnezone, Magmortar) and now Gen 7's Alola forms...yuck.

Many of the actual new Pokemon this gen dont really bother me.
I kind of get it as a 20th anniversary thing. The protagonist is from Kanto and there?s a lot of Kanto Pokemon plus Alolan forms of Kanto Pokemon. However between the fact that the main series games never really stopped celebrating the first games and all the extra 20th anniversary Gen I love-y stuff this year (VC releases, PoGo, the extra merchandise, etc), it?s a bit of an overload. Like when a song you love is played continuously. If you count the Alola forms as Gen I Pokemon, they make up 27% of the Pokemon available in the Alola regional dex (22% without).

I don?t really have any complaints about the general designs of Pokemon myself. There?s designs I love every generation, and sometimes there?s ones I hate. Probopass was winning my least favourite until Binacle and Barbaracle.
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.

Others just look really dumb. Even Klefki my issue is just how dumb it looks. A fairy that steals keys as a pokemon? Sure, why not? But does it have to look like a toy for an infant?

 

Eclipse Dragon

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I remember playing red version way back when I was young, running around Seafoam Island, finding the strange creature sitting in the depths. Articuno scared the crap out of little me, menacing song bird of icy death. I still find myself to this day wishing they'd tweak articuno's design so it looks just a little bit meaner.

But I don't think I can ever replicate that feeling again. I don't hold gen one up as the one with the best designs and I think this gen has some very cool and inspired ones, such as Silvally, but not all of them can hit it out of the park. I could go into a new gen hiding myself from spoilers online so that it's mostly fresh, but I can't shake the feeling of dread that my cute starter will evolve into a monstrosity if I do it that way.

Kibeth41 said:
My issue with Klefki is its testicle. I don't even know what it's supposed to be.
Yeah... They really did make some questionable design choices. I find myself having to say "No... that's not a dick" to people unfamiliar with Pokemon past gen 2 on a fairly regular basis.

 

Saelune

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Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.
You mean like Grimer, the toxic sludge pile? Or maybe Koffing, the floating bag of poison gas?
Let me know when medical waste and condoms are added to their design.
 

Saelune

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Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.
You mean like Grimer, the toxic sludge pile? Or maybe Koffing, the floating bag of poison gas?
Let me know when medical waste and condoms are added to their design.
A: That's not an explicit part of Trubbish.

B: How do you know that's not in Grimer already? They never explicit mention what's in it, but apparently it's really nasty.
I dont want condoms and syringes to be Pokemon. If Grimer has them canonically, then I am against it too But until then, I am fine with a blob of goo than I am with literally anything you put into a bag.
 

Saelune

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Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.
You mean like Grimer, the toxic sludge pile? Or maybe Koffing, the floating bag of poison gas?
Let me know when medical waste and condoms are added to their design.
A: That's not an explicit part of Trubbish.

B: How do you know that's not in Grimer already? They never explicit mention what's in it, but apparently it's really nasty.
I dont want condoms and syringes to be Pokemon. If Grimer has them canonically, then I am against it too But until then, I am fine with a blob of goo than I am with literally anything you put into a bag.
Can you demonstrate that Trubbish has condoms and syringes in it?
Its...garbage, come to life. It can literally be anything. If you can put it into a trash bag, it apparently can be a Pokemon.
 

Saelune

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Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.
You mean like Grimer, the toxic sludge pile? Or maybe Koffing, the floating bag of poison gas?
Let me know when medical waste and condoms are added to their design.
A: That's not an explicit part of Trubbish.

B: How do you know that's not in Grimer already? They never explicit mention what's in it, but apparently it's really nasty.
I dont want condoms and syringes to be Pokemon. If Grimer has them canonically, then I am against it too But until then, I am fine with a blob of goo than I am with literally anything you put into a bag.
Can you demonstrate that Trubbish has condoms and syringes in it?
Its...garbage, come to life. It can literally be anything. If you can put it into a trash bag, it apparently can be a Pokemon.
Assuming that condoms and drug syringes exist in pokemon in the first place, or are capable of supporting Trubbish biology.
But lets assume you're right. A garbage bag is still less cuddly than a creature described as "a living biohazard, leaking toxins that instantly kill all plant life it touches. Even it being in close proximity to plants will cause them to wilt and die. Extreme caution is advised in avoiding any contact with this Pok?mon, as an accidental brush up can lead to severe sickness. The effects of this Pok?mon can leave the landscape barren for three years. In dirty residential areas where people throw trash into the streets, it is almost certain to appear. It will readily consume nearly any waste or refuse generated by people and Pok?mon alike."

Oh hey, looks like Muk and Grimer have condoms and syringes in them as well.
And goats eat garbage too? I probably wouldnt hug a Muk either really though.

But literally the garbage IS the Pokemon, and thats a stupid idea for a Pokemon. I dont see why Trubbish is so important for you to defend.
 

Saelune

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Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Gundam GP01 said:
Saelune said:
Ironically, my most hated Pokemon, Trubbish, came from my favorite Gen, 5. I like a coherent thought out, consistent world. I think literal trash as a pokemon is a disturbing thought. Think about stuff you threw away, gross. I would never hug it or love it if it was real.
You mean like Grimer, the toxic sludge pile? Or maybe Koffing, the floating bag of poison gas?
Let me know when medical waste and condoms are added to their design.
A: That's not an explicit part of Trubbish.

B: How do you know that's not in Grimer already? They never explicit mention what's in it, but apparently it's really nasty.
I dont want condoms and syringes to be Pokemon. If Grimer has them canonically, then I am against it too But until then, I am fine with a blob of goo than I am with literally anything you put into a bag.
Can you demonstrate that Trubbish has condoms and syringes in it?
Its...garbage, come to life. It can literally be anything. If you can put it into a trash bag, it apparently can be a Pokemon.
Assuming that condoms and drug syringes exist in pokemon in the first place, or are capable of supporting Trubbish biology.
But lets assume you're right. A garbage bag is still less cuddly than a creature described as "a living biohazard, leaking toxins that instantly kill all plant life it touches. Even it being in close proximity to plants will cause them to wilt and die. Extreme caution is advised in avoiding any contact with this Pok?mon, as an accidental brush up can lead to severe sickness. The effects of this Pok?mon can leave the landscape barren for three years. In dirty residential areas where people throw trash into the streets, it is almost certain to appear. It will readily consume nearly any waste or refuse generated by people and Pok?mon alike."

Oh hey, looks like Muk and Grimer have condoms and syringes in them as well.
And goats eat garbage too? I probably wouldnt hug a Muk either really though.

But literally the garbage IS the Pokemon, and thats a stupid idea for a Pokemon. I dont see why Trubbish is so important for you to defend.
Because I see all the complaints about later gen pokemon designs as unfounded, especially when compared to gen 1, with such jems as...

A group of eggs.
A pile of goo.
A bigger pile of goo.
A pile of different goo.
A metal ball with magnets on it.
A pokeball.
A bigger, now upside down pokeball.
A ball with leaves or a flower on it.
A ball that emits clouds of gas.
A ball surrounded by an aura of gas.


I have my favorites from the gen, but it has an awful lot of balls and goo in it.
Seriously, Trubbish is not that bad. You complain about not wanting pokemon made of condoms and syringes and how a pokemon made of garbage is a dumb idea while ignoring the similar complaints of the pile of toxic industrial waste that kills everything it touches.
Trubbish IS LITERALLY GARBAGE!