Thoughts on the education system.
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LMAOnmmoore13 post=9.70976.709736 said:
You cannot be serious? Read "Jennifer Government" by Max Barry.
If you are going to make claims like that you should back them up. It makes for better discussion.nmmoore13 post=18.70976.709736 said:
Also thanks for the responses guys. I've been out for a while so this thread might have just died for all I knew.
I did have one teacher who did the technique I described before. It was a tech design course that thought how to do proper drafting and drawing techniques on things like houses and products. All assignments were due two weeks before exams and that time was spent on reviewing for the exam. All assignments could be returned with changes for a new grade once. It was very effective as well. With some helpful suggestions I bumped a mark up 6 percent once.
Naturally though, this example cannot apply to all courses. Remarking a series of architectural drawings takes a lot less time than remarking an essay.
Here's what I find funny. You can slack off until you're 18, take a GED course for 6-8 months, and unless you're planning on going to NASA or some such place you can get more or less the same educational benefits as a person who spent 12 years in school.
I love America, I was born and raised here, and I wouldn't ever want to leave (save vacation). But God damn there's some shit that needs changing.
I love America, I was born and raised here, and I wouldn't ever want to leave (save vacation). But God damn there's some shit that needs changing.
The educational system don't really care if you retain the information after 5th grade, they want you to learn it, memorize it for the test, take and pass it, then add the scores up show the kids are 'learning' and move them on to the next grade but no one cares if the students retain the information afterwords.
They taught us for the tests, not so we learned useful knowledge later in life and this system needs to be addressed in my opinion (this is in America so i cant say for anyone else)
and keep your Religion out of my school please, if i want to learn about God or Kami or Alha or Buddha I go to a place of faith learning thank you very much.
They taught us for the tests, not so we learned useful knowledge later in life and this system needs to be addressed in my opinion (this is in America so i cant say for anyone else)
and keep your Religion out of my school please, if i want to learn about God or Kami or Alha or Buddha I go to a place of faith learning thank you very much.
That seems to happen to you a lot.Khell_Sennet post=18.70976.709839 said:
Although I do disagree about the higher math stuff. No, all the advanced trigonometry is not needed, but advanced applicable math should be there. You know, those classes they call "consumer math" or whatever. The taxes doing, checkbook balancing, in-your-head-calculations of transactions, etc. That stuff is useful and not necessarily simple.
But yeah, most higher math that you learn in high school is completely useless. It's only there to prepare you to take even higher math.
Theres this book called Truancy by Isamiu Fukui, its essentially a dramatization of the school situation now, but It does make a lot of good points.
For example, one character of the book had this to say about the system.
"And don't you think that its strange that you must go through these meaningless classes: that you must practice exceedingly complicated types of math, obscure minutiae of biology, aimless drawing, and more, all at the same time? Just to get jobs that, in all likelihood, would not involve even one of them, let alone at all?"
For example, one character of the book had this to say about the system.
"And don't you think that its strange that you must go through these meaningless classes: that you must practice exceedingly complicated types of math, obscure minutiae of biology, aimless drawing, and more, all at the same time? Just to get jobs that, in all likelihood, would not involve even one of them, let alone at all?"
That has been on my too read list for ages.The_root_of_all_evil post=18.70976.709754 said:
Alright, privatised education. Right now, the government has a near monopoly on education with public schools. Generally, the standards are all designed by state and federal governments. Money is attained through taxpayer money. Schools get a certain amount of money from their state's. If the state doesn't have money, if the feds don't have money, the school doesn't have money.
Under a privatised system, every school would be a business. Unlike in public education, there would be an incentive to provide better education/services. Better schools = more customers. Schools will try and make their schools better so they can get more customers/students.
All public schools are run to a certain standard by federal and state regulations and standards. The obvious problem is that when something dumb gets passed (No Child Left Behind) all public schools are effected.
Under a privatised system, different schools would flourish. Hear all the complaints about art and music getting cut? That means theres a HUGE market out there for parents who want their children to have good art education. Thus, schools provide good art education to snap up those customers.
There would also be a lot of diversity in a privatised system. Instead of our two choices now, a public school, or an incredibly expensive private school, we would have many choices. A parent would be able to find the school that fits their kid.
Money would not be a problem. Comparing rates of today's private schools to a privatised system's is illogical. Private schools today are a luxury so they are very expensive. With a fully privatised system, there would be a market for cheap schools. Think the Wal Mart of education.
And theres my little essay. Hoped you had fun.
It's all starting to show its flaws. The education system now is turning belly up because of the parent's inability to help motivate, and teach the kid important skills such as reading. The American system is flawed like crazy, and compared to other school systems, the American education system is a huge turd. Even before no child left behind was launched, it was pretty disorganized. Quite honestly, i don't think there is a way to fix this, partly because they spent a shitload of money into the system, tested more frequently, and lowered the passing grades so more kids can pass. The school system i go to, the Sabis system has this sense of balance that no other system has. Take my word for it. Everyone who goes there goes to pretty high rated colleges 
My take on the public/private school debate: people have consistently shown they do not respect what they do not have to pay for. Despite schools being funded through taxes, people don't equate this as directly paying for their children's education, and we get what we have now. Parents aren't actively taking a stake in their own child's academic performance, blaming the education system for failing to motivate. If they are more intimately involved in paying for the education, they may take a it a little more personal when their 'investment' returns failing grades.
Under the current public-funded, publicly-managed system, we are consistently failing to produce well-educated individuals. Higher education institutions are lowering standards to maintain student populations, and hence cash inflow, making the whole system operate contrary to its intended purpose.
The privatised system may not solve every problem. It may end up not solving ANY problem, but the current system is collapsing, and to do nothing at all is to accept the consequences of its failure. People are so afraid of doing something wrong that they won't take a chance on doing something right. Even if the privatised education system doesn't work, we SHOULD learn from whatever mistakes were made, and come up with a better plan. If we continue to put out graduates with less and less actual education, we may never learn.
Under the current public-funded, publicly-managed system, we are consistently failing to produce well-educated individuals. Higher education institutions are lowering standards to maintain student populations, and hence cash inflow, making the whole system operate contrary to its intended purpose.
The privatised system may not solve every problem. It may end up not solving ANY problem, but the current system is collapsing, and to do nothing at all is to accept the consequences of its failure. People are so afraid of doing something wrong that they won't take a chance on doing something right. Even if the privatised education system doesn't work, we SHOULD learn from whatever mistakes were made, and come up with a better plan. If we continue to put out graduates with less and less actual education, we may never learn.
I can't find his name right now, but I read a quote from some teacher or other who left his job to attempt to revamp the system. It goes something like this:
"Imagine you have 2 kids age 4 and 7. If the 7 year old can't read he is branded slow, and suffers that stigma his entire life. If the age 4 child can read, he is branded smart and enjoys that distinction his entire life. That in most cases both children will have an identical reading level at age 9 is irrelevant. They have been branded, and will suffer/excel under those markings for their entire educations"
So the primary reason most would veto your suggestion is that it points out a flaw in the entire infrastructure of schooling. Namely, school teaches you skills and focuses your brain's development, it does NOT judge who you are.
But we've become so enamored with school as a sorting hat for the good and the bad....
"Imagine you have 2 kids age 4 and 7. If the 7 year old can't read he is branded slow, and suffers that stigma his entire life. If the age 4 child can read, he is branded smart and enjoys that distinction his entire life. That in most cases both children will have an identical reading level at age 9 is irrelevant. They have been branded, and will suffer/excel under those markings for their entire educations"
So the primary reason most would veto your suggestion is that it points out a flaw in the entire infrastructure of schooling. Namely, school teaches you skills and focuses your brain's development, it does NOT judge who you are.
But we've become so enamored with school as a sorting hat for the good and the bad....
50%? Really? I could of swore the average was around 20-30% at the most though it in reailty does not even need to be that much. Considering say we spend 30k a year per prsioner for expensives dealing with that in a realistic way we could see only a raise of 5% across the board for a major drop in crime.This would inturn give us a bigger budget for state and federal spending allowing for more schools. That would in turn mean that instead of 30-40 students per class like it is in California for classrooms we could make it 10-20.sneakypenguin post=18.70976.709625 said:
This would allow teachers a better chance at actually focusing on all students much more like you have in community colleges where even with 20 students it feels one on one with a teacher and so you get far better non test based learning as the teacher can easily deal with 100 students a semester rather the 200+ they have to deal with a semester currently not to mention the low pay of the job and the low budget most schools have for supplies.
P.S However I am betting with a raise in savings the government would prolly just spend most of it and give little to nothing back into other areas unfortunately.
Agreed,There is also a big need in technical classes for highschool students as well to teach how to be a electrician or plumber or various other trade school which would all be included when a better criminal justice system is in place.TomNook post=18.70976.710007 said:
Also with better technical classes you would also reduce crime rates due to allowing people who are not meant for college a way to stay in highschool and benefit from having a skill they can use in the real world rather then just college prep classes like most highschools are turning into.
You forgot French. It's a big problem these days, I only knew what the teachers were saying, when I started university. Let me say something, in New-Brunswick, we had problems with french essays. They taughted us how to make an essay, before teaching us grammar. Where is the logic in that?Khell_Sennet post=18.70976.709839 said:
Well, in New-Brunswick, we are the only OFFICIAL billingual province. Each time we change goverment, it's a big fuck on our education system. One side wants a fair education system, the other seems to forget about it, because we're in need for a workforce. (Blue Collars)
Oh fun! Something to disseminate.nmmoore13 post=18.70976.709955 said:
Right...let's leave personal opinion out and go straight for facts.
Paragraph 1 : Agreed.
Paragraph 2/Sentence 1 : Agreed. And then we crash.
No. A thousand different business models (Tesco's, Walmart, Starbucks, McDonalds, Gamestop) will tell you no.
There is an incentive to take money. That's it. If I was to mention a certain University set in a certain Midland City that used to be a Polytechnic; we'll take that as an example.
Of the 5 campuses that existed, only one remains. Every year, thousands of foreign students appear. And every year, at least a hundred have to spend the first term sleeping in the Sports Halls.
That's a gym to the Americans.
Now, FOUR of these campuses have closed down. The best Student Venue in the COUNTRY (as STATED by John Peel (RIP) who knows about music) was closed becase 'it was old'.
One of the buildings was left standing for 10 years, despite it actually swaying enough to cause motion sickness. The Elevator worked for one year before the building was too crooked to allow it to go up and down.
This same 'school' came at the bottom of Division 3 of the league tables, where 5% of the courses were up to National Standard.
The annual turnover of this place is reputedly £132.5 million. Oh, and it's privatised.
So, one headshot already. Next?
Nope again, Schools will badger more people. A high percentage of money is gained from taking in people who are unable to pass courses so they can deliberately fail. Myself, I got in with an fail.
That's it, I failed and they still let me in.
Yep, I got a University place on a Honours Degree with a fail.
Next?
This is true, but privatised education has it's own agenda's. I mean, why name a University after a known anti-semite for a start? Why are the subsidised Student prices in the student bookshop actually more expensive than you can get just down the road? Why have all the cheap places nearby been 'relocated' away from it? Why do all the new student houses have CCTV's everywhere and a security card system?
Nope again, Starbucks? Primark? John Lewis's? As the Jam says "And the public wants what the public gets".
Yep...but there's a HUGE queue for Maccy D's still. And they can get little Johnny into this place no matter what his art teacher thinks of his "genius".
Unfortunately, the poor art education snaps up those thousands with 'ok' students. And then buys up the good Universities and cuts more corners, all in the name of the Profit.
YES! ENFORCED DIVERSITY! For an example, the Christian Society was BANNED because they'd made a simple request for it's members to actually be Christian. This was found to be religionist and they were banned.
No, I'm not making that up.
And there's a lot more 'ok' students than 'good' students. Especially when those 'ok' students get through their courses even if they fail them. (The Times and the Telegraph both spotted that, but mysteriously that course is still one of the few permitted by the Governing body)
I mean, who can argue with results like that?
No, I don't think 132 million is. Pity that so little of it is actually going back into the courses. Or security guards. Or Housing. Or Food.
True, why pay for teachers that can teach, when we can grab some lecturers or students that can do the job for nothing? Why should we pay for years of experience when we can just fill out the exams for them?
And we go full circle. Walmart Education.
Let's take a quick look at Wiki
Diversity?
So, rather than have a well trained, if small, workforce that have received the best education available, you'd rather have "Low marks, always"
Thousands, maybe millions, of spoonfed, ethic toting corporate degree slaves that have a near worthless piece of paper, an ever-so-subtle private brainwashing and a nice £15,000 debt to start their new lives.
OR... People who can think for themselves, having been allowed to access ALL diversities (no matter how cruel), and have an education that actually means something?
You're right. I did have fun. Thanks for that.
Took the words right out of my mouth. What infuriates even more than the letters, though, is the obsession with standardized testing. I thought that the whole purpose of standardized testing was to make sure that the kids were sufficiently learning the material. The purpose of all of my Advanced Placement courses, however, is not particularly to learn anything, but to do well on the Advanced Placement test. The tests are no longer a means to an end (meaningful education), but the end itself, which I find unbelievably stupid. A letter or a number says nothing about me, my intelligence, or my abilities as a human being. Why should I care?DeadlyYellow post=18.70976.709349 said:
The other major thing that bugs me is the hypocrisy of the education system. It tries to have its cake and eat it, too. Principals, guidance counselors, teachers, etc. encourage kids to only partake in advanced courses and extracurriculars that they find "interesting" or "challenging," but those same kids are going to be involved in a college application process that encourages kids to fill their resumes with as much fluff as physically possible.
I think that what we need to do is take the focus off the grades and back to the learning. Make education a little more informal, a little more personal. Less rote memorization, more open-ended concepts and real world applications (though I understand that in math and science, at least, a certain level of rote memorization is necessary). We have to stop treating our children like automatons and start treating them like...well...children. I know people who have been preparing for the SAT's and planning for college since before they were out of elementary school. It's ridiculous. Let the Japanese have their ridiculously high test scores. I really couldn't care less.