Thread Topic - LGBT and Video Games

[grassgremlin]

**Edit:I'm aware this thread is me rambling just so I can talk about something other then #gamergate and feminism. As such thread topic is anything to do with LGBT and video games.

Original Text

Instead of the usual threads I make, I'm going to get personal about some things.

I'm homosexual if it isn't obvious. I'm a boy who likes boys.
I've gone further then that, I also like drag too, but I never done it myself yet. I can't quite afford the clothes.

I think I love this industry right now. What's being done right now and the diversity that is taking shape. Yes, this is a thread being positive about the idea of more gender-fluid games and LGBT representation.

I wanted this. No, I needed this. People may often seem me run about this thread, defending this and that about gamers who just don't care about these issues, but in all reality, I actually do care.

In fact, I never cared before until this actually became a thing. At first, I never thought about gay or trans characters in video games, but when they've started to pop up, there is . . . a certain feeling.

Please don't tell me I'm the only one. You don't care because you're playing games and having fun, but when you're allowed the option, when I can be a girly boy transvestite or a black guy who doesn't look like Balrog or Barrett in a game, well . . . giddy does not begin to describe the feeling.

For the first time ever, I can make comics without the worries about things like "will I have a audience?" I can say, I'll make something really gay and have no fear.

Recently I spent all the time defending straight person's interest. After all if I want to have my fuck toys they can have theirs right. But, I'm taking up the task of trying on the gay defense for a change.

I want to reinforce that despite what I always say, I really do care about inclusive or diversity. I didn't even think about the zombie fighting in sunset overdrive. As soon as I read that the character customization was gender-fluid, I was all ears. I played guilty gear for Bridget. I prefer the king of fighter games with Ash Crimson.

Does it matter if it makes sense in context? Honestly, I don't care. Truthfully, pandering and shoehorning doesn't bother me like most unless it's introduced subtlety. I usually only cringe when it's jarring.

Gay games for me is 100% approval rating. I want more. I want no punches pulled. I'm very sex positive too. Call it niche' all you want but I want my gay DOA. If it makes straight guys uncomfortable, go play elsewhere.

What do you guys think?

Let's be selfish about what we really want.

 

[ninja666]

I for certain don't care and get excited about it as much as you do, although it is kinda nice, when they actually include the option of romancing with characters of the same gender as the main hero. When it's available, I usually go with it, but I don't really care or get angry at the devs when there's no such option.

 

[grassgremlin]

I for certain don't care and get excited about it as much as you do, although it is kinda nice, when they actually include the option of romancing with characters of the same gender as the main hero. When it's available, I usually go with it, but I don't really care or get angry at the devs when there's no such option.

I don't either to be perfectly frank. But, I'd be lying to say I don't care when it actually happens and having the desire to see more of that.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I'm struggling to think of what gay games you mean. I'm thinking back to the last 10 or so I've played, and I can't for the life of me see how gay characters adds to any of it. Not that having a gay character takes away from anything, but using the fighting games you listed as an example, if romance never plays a part in anything, then the sexualities of the characters are irrelevant, aren't they?
I mean yes, they ARE there, literally, but that doesn't feel like the same brand of inclusive gays would prefer. That Bridget is gay...that could have just been written into her bio damn near post production, and yes that is technically inclusive, but I can't help but feel we can do better.

I mean look at Shepard in ME3. Yes its kinda' weird that if you play a gay Shepard, you're only allowed to pair off with one of two gay characters(Kaidan is only gay if you romance him, otherwise he's straight. So I guess bi?). That involved choices, preferences, a script, writers, voice actors, animators, etc...
whereas just saying 'X is gay' in a fighting game bio just doesn't feel up to snuff, you know? I'm not against gays being included more, but saying a game is inclusive just because one character his gay(yet it doesn't effect anything at any time) is the same as say a fighting game with an unlockable bear character is a nature sim. I can follow the logic train, but it just makes me want to play an actual nature sim.

So in your opinion what are some really good inclusive gay games where the character's sexuality matters(ie where it comes into play in the plot)

 

[Silvanus]

Please don't tell me I'm the only one.

You are certainly not the only one.

Here's hoping diversity continues to increase (it's still pretty low right now). Regular, traditional protagonists really aren't under any sort of threat, so nobody should feel threatened by different things catering to different people.

 

[Danny Dowling]

Haa, gaaaayyyyy.

On topic though; don't really care if any game is gay or if anyone in it is gay or whatever, as long as the game is good I don't really care.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

It's nice your happy, but when I thought about this I kind of came up with a meh. It's not that I don't like the option to play what I want. (I tend to play mannish lesbians, or at least that is what people say I play.) I think I am a little meh because this is about the same level of inclusion games have always had. You could have gay sims all the way back in the first game. Sunset overdrive character creator looks like a less diverse saints row 2's character creator. I maybe too pessimistic. In fact I'll call it now I am too pessimistic, but I don't see that much of an improvement from how it's been for awhile.

 

[grassgremlin]

I'm struggling to think of what gay games you mean. I'm thinking back to the last 10 or so I've played, and I can't for the life of me see how gay characters adds to any of it. Not that having a gay character takes away from anything, but using the fighting games you listed as an example, if romance never plays a part in anything, then the sexualities of the characters are irrelevant, aren't they?
I mean yes, they ARE there, literally, but that doesn't feel like the same brand of inclusive gays would prefer. That Bridget is gay...that could have just been written into her bio damn near post production, and yes that is technically inclusive, but I can't help but feel we can do better.

I mean look at Shepard in ME3. Yes its kinda' weird that if you play a gay Shepard, you're only allowed to pair off with one of two gay characters(Kaidan is only gay if you romance him, otherwise he's straight. So I guess bi?). That involved choices, preferences, a script, writers, voice actors, animators, etc...
whereas just saying 'X is gay' in a fighting game bio just doesn't feel up to snuff, you know? I'm not against gays being included more, but saying a game is inclusive just because one character his gay(yet it doesn't effect anything at any time) is the same as say a fighting game with an unlockable bear character is a nature sim. I can follow the logic train, but it just makes me want to play an actual nature sim.

So in your opinion what are some really good inclusive gay games where the character's sexuality matters(ie where it comes into play in the plot)

I think I tend to care more about character then romantic options sense I never been a fan of games with romance part of the narrative. I can't say Bridget is gay, but he's a hmmmm, interesting character archetype I don't see a lot in games. Ash Crimson's sexuality hasn't been known, but the understanding is that he is gay.

I suppose, I'm easy to impress when it comes down to games. I've always seen only two options. Masculine male hero and feminine sexy woman, so when I see an effort to take gender and muck with it, it does get me curious.

As for gay, Guilty Gear does have a directly gay character.
Venom.

Spoiler

I guess it would be that I'd prefer games that sexualize the male figure in some form and go outright trans characters.
For your answers, off the top of my head? I got nothing.

 

[Duster]

I'm gay and I feel it's a bad thing. Stories in video games have been mostly garbage for a long time now. Why shoehorne in inane non-cis messages into a game that's story that everybody throws into the trash anyway? Developers try to make characters both very well off AND retarded, which is okay for stories in certain contexts, such as the epic of Gilgamesh, but not in a video game, and not when the developers don't know they are making the characters retarded. For instance, in call of duty ghosts, when special forces operatives attempt to interrogate somebody who's nervous system has been numbed to pain, while also flying without any radar in whatever fucking year it was. (no, the plane that grabbed theirs WAS NOT able to fly below radar), and then expecting the audience to care about people with less logistical genius than nine year olds who read a book about military planes. Why even bother making a story at that point? Even casual duty fans are saying the stories to the games are garbage and they just skip them to play multiplayer. Would it honestly be better with some coming out scene in the middle of a battle? I wouldn't know, because I stopped playing the campaign early on.

I mean we are the point where you could get some random guy on the street and pay him to write a fanfic for a video game in 7 hours, and it would be less mary sue than the stuff we get in our average AAA budget game. Why do feminists and non-cis want to associate themselves with this?

 

[Rayce Archer]

Video games have always been at least a little gay

Seriously, totally agree. Positive, or at least well done, gay representation will attract more players to the hobby and more talent to the industry. It's a good thing.

 

[Fappy]

I think I speak for every straight man on the planet when I say that I would love to see more hot lesbians in video games.

Then again, I think everyone likes hot lesbians.

 

[Saetha]

I think I speak for every straight man on the planet when I say that I would love to see more hot lesbians in video games.

Then again, I think everyone likes hot lesbians.

Eh, not really. I guess I can look at a woman and go "Yes, you are aesthetically pleasing," but I've never really found one attractive. I like 'em manly, I guess. And I'm not sure how tacking "lesbian" on the end will help with that.

Captcha: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING.

I'm sorry captcha please don't yell.

 

[Barbas]

Please don't tell me I'm the only one.

You are certainly not the only one.

Here's hoping diversity continues to increase (it's still pretty low right now). Regular, traditional protagonists really aren't under any sort of threat, so nobody should feel threatened by different things catering to different people.

"We are coming out of the darkness and into the light..."

Seriously, though, all those previous grey-brown militaristic shooters and their indistinguishable, deadpan "heroes" can choke on a big fat...hoagie. The Kongs appeal more to me than any of them ever will.

I think I speak for every straight man on the planet when I say that I would love to see more hot lesbians in video games.

Then again, I think everyone likes hot lesbians.

I wonder what the approval rating would be for a lesbian president. I'm thinking high seventies at least.

I'm gay and I feel it's a bad thing. Stories in video games have been mostly garbage for a long time now. Developers try to make characters both very well off AND retarded, which is okay for stories in certain contexts, such as the epic of Gilgamesh, but not in a video game, and not when the developers don't know they are making the characters retarded. For instance, in call of duty ghosts, when special forces operatives attempt to interrogate somebody who's nervous system has been numbed to pain, while also flying without any radar in whatever fucking year it was. (no, the plane that grabbed theirs WAS NOT able to fly below radar), and then expecting the audience to care about people with less logistical genius than nine year olds who read a book about military planes. Why even bother making a story at that point? Even casual duty fans are saying the stories to the games are garbage and they just skip them to play multiplayer. Would it honestly be better with some coming out scene in the middle of a battle? I wouldn't know, because I stopped playing the campaign early on.

The writing and quality of games'll always be getting better as developers get more and more knowledge of their audience's tastes. The wider the audience, the more people they can appeal to. Obviously you can't please all of the people all of the time with a sort of scatter-shot approach, because then you'll have rather disjointed and frenetic writing, but I think gay and trans gamers could stand to be appealed to more. I'm interested to see what the interested and progressive companies are going to be coming up with in the future. I think we should meet this change the with encouragement and positivity that it deserves.

 

[josemlopes]

The thing is why did you ignore Sunset Overdrive and as soon as you heard about the character creator you did an 180º?

I dont know, caring that much about the characters genders feels rather superficial to me, hell, even caring about your own, I guess I can consider myself bi but I dont care or think much about that, when the time comes do I want to tap that or not? The rest doesnt really matter.

 

[communist gamer]

I really really dont give a damn, i dont mind playing different characters, in fact i tend to play as females more often then males (and they tend to be lesbians, but thats just my dick doing the thinking for me from time to time), and if i have the option i never play as a boring human, im into games because either A they challenge me in some way (thats why i play strategy games) or they draw me in with their characters and story. The thing i am worried about is how the pressure a lot of gamers put on developers to have more "diverse" characters (give us gay dudes, give us women, give us trans people etc. in games) that the developers will cave in and indeed give us more diverse characters, that will have one characteristic. You know the "look at this, our game has a gay dude in it, LOOK HOW PROGRESIVE WE ARE". We all ready saw this in the last of us, they introduced a very well done gay dude. The gay part of him was mentioned and they did not dwell on it too much, he was a recherche who's being gay was part of him not all of him, on the other hand we had the add on where they pretty much said " OCH LOOK ELLIE IS A LESBIAN AND WITH A BLACK CHICK, WE ARE SO PROGERSIVE, WE ARE SO COOL, BUY OUR GAME OR YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE", the whole lesbian plot felt very forced in and pointless (the game dose not expand on it what so ever, there is no recherche building on it, and it seems VERY out of place) so i dont give a damn, i just want well made characters, if they are gay/what ever i dont give a fuck, just make them believable and not nonsensical

 

[Blue C Jeffrey]

It's well within your rights to support gay/sex positive games. Character diversity is more often than not good for an entertainment medium, such as with genres and settings. The only thing that would raise an eyebrow for me would be supporting a game with poor gameplay/story just for having a gay character... That would be kinda silly, in my opinion.

Although it begs the question of whether there should be some standard in writing gay characters, especially since writing in video games is considered a joke by some. Should the sexuality of gay characters be very transparent, quite subtle, or something in between? Is it alright if gay characters have their sexuality outside the spotlight in favor of unrelated personality traits? Should there be a purpose to have a character be gay? Should game writers/developers make gay characters even if they rely on stereotypes? Does it even matter?

At the end of the day, though, I don't really care if the protagonist of a game is gay. I'm in it for the gameplay or major storyline, not whether my character acts/looks like myself or seems progressive.

Make a game about a time-traveling ferret who is also a surgeon who must save a couple by fixing their broken hearts, I will play it.
Make a game about a gay time-traveling ferret who is also a surgeon who must save a couple by fixing their broken hearts, I will still play it.

So, yeah.

 

[mad825]

For the first time ever, I can make comics without the worries about things like "will I have a audience?" I can say, I'll make something really gay and have no fear.

The insecurity is your own. Is there is anything for an audience of any type. Children cartoons (such as Sponge bob and My Little Pony) is a hit for adults despite being made for children alone.

Recently I spent all the time defending straight person's interest. After all if I want to have my fuck toys they can have theirs right. But, I'm taking up the task of trying on the gay defense for a change.

That's your problem not ours, why are you taking this out on society?

Does it matter if it makes sense in context? Honestly, I don't care. Truthfully, pandering and shoehorning doesn't bother me like most unless it's introduced subtlety. I usually only cringe when it's jarring.

Gay games for me is 100% approval rating. I want more. I want no punches pulled. I'm very sex positive too. Call it niche' all you want but I want my gay DOA. If it makes straight guys uncomfortable, go play elsewhere.

What do you guys think?

Let's be selfish about what we really want.

You're almost every homophobes nightmare come true, You want to have your cake and eat it too. The hypocrisy of modern day social justice.

 

[Silvanus]

Although it begs the question of whether there should be some standard in writing gay characters, especially since writing in video games is considered a joke by some. Should the sexuality of gay characters be very transparent, quite subtle, or something in between?

Is it alright if gay characters have their sexuality outside the spotlight in favor of unrelated personality traits? Should there be a purpose to have a character be gay? Should game writers/developers make gay characters even if they rely on stereotypes? Does it even matter?

The trick is still diversity, I think. Some of one kind, some of another, just as with straight characters.

That's your problem not ours, why are you taking this out on society?

I truly have no idea what you're talking about. Taking what out on society? How?

 

[Bombiz]

i like the way Path of Exile has gay characters. it's never the focus of the game but it's heavily implied/obvious if you pay attention. Also the gameplay. that matters a lot too.

 

[Batou667]

Gay games for me is 100% approval rating. I want more. I want no punches pulled. I'm very sex positive too. Call it niche' all you want but I want my gay DOA. If it makes straight guys uncomfortable, go play elsewhere.

I would absolutely approve of that, and although I probably wouldn't play it myself I realise that not everything is about me and my preferences. Not every game is aimed at me, not every game is for me, and that's fine.

I think developers should be able to make the games they want, publishers should support the games they think an audience exists for, and gamers should get to play whatever tickles their pickle without braying hordes of keyboard crusaders booing and hissing and shaming and judging.

Diversity in gaming is good. Let's give people choice, and let's make that choice free.