Tim Schafer has to explain to gamers how to play Brutal Legend...

[MiracleOfSound]

http://kotaku.com/5382233/tim-schafer-explains-how-to-play-brutal-legend

So apparently Tim Schafer has sent out a message to the BL community as many of them have been having problems understanding the game's 'RTS' sections and how they work.

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't these things have been made clear in the game itself??

Personally I am finding these sections in the campaign insanely annoying, (not to mention boring) and have had to switch the game off twice in frustration after losing 40 minute plus battles.

Has anyone else had problems with this game? Or did you all find it easy?

Do you think more developers should follow his example and give us a little helping hand if they fuck up their games' tutorials?

 

[The Rockerfly]

I've not played it to be honest but if he has to explain gamers how to play it then surely that is a good example of a bad game?

 

[THEMILKMAN]

http://kotaku.com/5382233/tim-schafer-explains-how-to-play-brutal-legend

So apparently Tim Schafer has sent out a message to the BL community as many of them have been having problems understanding the game's 'RTS' sections and how they work.

Correct me if I am wrong, but shouldn't these things have been made clear in the game itself??

Personally I am finding these sections in the campaign insanely annoying, (not to mention boring) and have had to switch the game off twice in frustration after losing 40 minute plus battles.

Has anyone else had problems with this game? Or did you all find it easy?

Do you think more developers should follow his example and give us a little helping hand if they fuck up their games' tutorials?

I found them pretty easy and I've barely ever played RTS games before. But yeah if they screw up the in-game tutorial then they should explain it like Tim did. But I didn't really think they screwed up the in-game tutorials at all

 

[bodyklok]

They can be hard, the last one requires a bit more effort than the rest.

But I didn't really have any trouble with them, the trick is, for me, to send in all your troops at the beginning of the match, supporting them with the deuce. This doesn't work that well against the Drowning Doom, their anti-infantry troops will tear apart your Head Bangers and Razor Girls, so you have to take them apart in advanced. But it tends to work.

I only really call the last fight challenging is because half way through a bunch of heavy issue vehicles turn up that you really need to use the Bladehenge attack to destroy or they'll take all your Fan Geysers and overwhelm your stage.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

People make mistakes all the time. I'm sure they could just have a patch with more in depth instructions. No need to worry about it

 

[Nmil-ek]

Why do so many people find them tough they are a fuckin breeze and I really dont do RTS, spawn headbangers, rarzorgirls, the healing units and towards the end of the game a rock crusher everything else is usless.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

They can be hard, the last one requires a bit more effort than the rest.

But I didn't really have any trouble with them, the trick is, for me, to send in all your troops at the beginning of the match, supporting them with the deuce. This doesn't work that well against the Drowning Doom, their anti-infantry troops will tear apart your Head Bangers and Razor Girls, so you have to take them apart in advanced. But it tends to work.

I only really call the last fight challenging is because half way through a bunch of heavy issue vehicles turn up that you really need to use the Bladehenge attack to destroy or they'll take all your Fan Geysers and overwhelm your stage.

So the infantry are not as ineffective against the coil as they were against drowning doom? I'll try using them again so. Are the enemies finite?

Another thing... Tim says that you should always be in the centre of the battle, swinging your axe.

When I do this, Eddie is dead within 2 or 3 seconds. Half the time there is so much chaos that you don't even know who is attacking you. And those goddamn lightning throwing horse riders...ugh.

I never use the zeppelin solo because I always die before I even finish playing the damn thing.

Bear in mind I have NEVER played an RTS.

 

[squid5580]

disregard this post. It was an oopsie.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

They can be hard, the last one requires a bit more effort than the rest.

But I didn't really have any trouble with them, the trick is, for me, to send in all your troops at the beginning of the match, supporting them with the deuce. This doesn't work that well against the Drowning Doom, their anti-infantry troops will tear apart your Head Bangers and Razor Girls, so you have to take them apart in advanced. But it tends to work.

I only really call the last fight challenging is because half way through a bunch of heavy issue vehicles turn up that you really need to use the Bladehenge attack to destroy or they'll take all your Fan Geysers and overwhelm your stage.

I actually found the drowning doom harder than the final battle... that stupid tree kept killing everything I sent at it, including my rock crusher.

 

[theownerer]

I never had any problems with the rts sections. Also I never had to repeat one in the campaign always got them first try.

 

[TheCameraman]

Come on, the RTS battles were extremely easy, just have a look in the tour book for what the different units are used for, and you're good to go. I got into the battles at once, and I had no problems from the second battle onward, even my roommate who hadn't played much of the earlier game managed to pick up and play the battles without any problem after I showed him the basic controls.

I was skeptical towards the RTS elements when I first heard of them, but I actually liked the battles so much that I've been playing multiplayer against the AI for a couple of hours. And I'm not even much of an RTS player.

Here's a tip for you though: Learn your solos and USE them. The facemelter solo takes care of most of the enemy tier 1 infantry if you utilize it at the right moment. Also, play the rally flag solo and pick up the flag so the spawned units always will come to you.
The Call of the wild solo is also pretty handy to have in a pinch, if you have done that side mission.

 

[ccesarano]

I SUCK at Strategy games. I even had to play Halo Wars on easy mode to get it without frustration. I love Masters of Orion 2, but if I try to play on Normal difficulty the game kicks my ass.

That said, I was able to complete the single player campaign easily enough. If you do all the side-quests and search the land for dragons and songs you get enough bonuses to help you out. My trick to taking out basic infantry is just to use the Face Melter solo.

Yes, you should be in the middle of combat, but if the Reapers are coming around then you need to start double-teaming with units like the Head Splitter or riding in your Deuce with a weapon like the Bolt-Thrower or missile-launcher.

In addition, complete all of the Hunter's missions and summon Hextadon. GREAT assistance as it takes forever to take one down.

The Tree, again, it's a *****, but be sure to spawn anti-vehicle enemies as well like the Bouncer, and even Roadies. A couple hits with the Bonecrusher (or Rockcrusher? I keep forgetting) will help, but after it was destroyed I also summoned the zeppelin.

In any case, as stated, I suck at strategy games. Playing an A.I. stage battle gave me a run for my money on Gentle difficulty as the A.I. starts to use double-teams and is on the ground a lot more than in campaign.

The real issue is people look at it as an RTS. While it's got similarities, the Double Fine guys are right. The combat is too simplified for the micromanagement. What matters is to have an army with a good balance of units so you have infantry, anti-vehicle and ranged as well as good use of solos to buff your guys, debuff the enemy and to support your troops. It's also about learning the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent. Also, it's best to learn when a Double Team should be used.

It's an interesting system, and I do enjoy the battles. I find this game to be a great example of game design, as it started as a multiplayer concept. While the single player is technically a tutorial for the multiplayer, there is SO MUCH that they added to make it a completely different experience. All I wish is the story was longer, but as it is I'm wondering if I should restart and play through the story again or finish combing the world over for the last 20 dragons, last song and last three landmark viewers.

Most people are having trouble because they 1) want an RTS or 2) wanted a hack and slash. The team should have explained the gameplay much earlier on because few were expecting strategy and are now disappointed. Me? I wasn't sure what to think at first, but I'm absolutely in love with the game.

And, again, I suck at strategy games and thus have a hard time enjoying them. If I love this one so much then it must be doing a lot of things right.

 

[EgoDeusEst]

I played the game on the "Brütal" difficulty, and besides one particularly annoying fight (first against the Black Tear army), I thought they were all rather easy (though challenging) and fun (though occasionaly frustrating). Sure, there are a few things you need to get a hang of, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

I like a game that challenges me once in a while. Let's me know I can't just sleepwalk through the it, like you can with most games these days.

They can be hard, the last one requires a bit more effort than the rest.

Really? I thought the two last battles were the easiest ones in the entire game.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I SUCK at Strategy games. I even had to play Halo Wars on easy mode to get it without frustration. I love Masters of Orion 2, but if I try to play on Normal difficulty the game kicks my ass.

That said, I was able to complete the single player campaign easily enough. If you do all the side-quests and search the land for dragons and songs you get enough bonuses to help you out. My trick to taking out basic infantry is just to use the Face Melter solo.

Yes, you should be in the middle of combat, but if the Reapers are coming around then you need to start double-teaming with units like the Head Splitter or riding in your Deuce with a weapon like the Bolt-Thrower or missile-launcher.

In addition, complete all of the Hunter's missions and summon Hextadon. GREAT assistance as it takes forever to take one down.

The Tree, again, it's a *****, but be sure to spawn anti-vehicle enemies as well like the Bouncer, and even Roadies. A couple hits with the Bonecrusher (or Rockcrusher? I keep forgetting) will help, but after it was destroyed I also summoned the zeppelin.

In any case, as stated, I suck at strategy games. Playing an A.I. stage battle gave me a run for my money on Gentle difficulty as the A.I. starts to use double-teams and is on the ground a lot more than in campaign.

The real issue is people look at it as an RTS. While it's got similarities, the Double Fine guys are right. The combat is too simplified for the micromanagement. What matters is to have an army with a good balance of units so you have infantry, anti-vehicle and ranged as well as good use of solos to buff your guys, debuff the enemy and to support your troops. It's also about learning the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent. Also, it's best to learn when a Double Team should be used.

It's an interesting system, and I do enjoy the battles. I find this game to be a great example of game design, as it started as a multiplayer concept. While the single player is technically a tutorial for the multiplayer, there is SO MUCH that they added to make it a completely different experience. All I wish is the story was longer, but as it is I'm wondering if I should restart and play through the story again or finish combing the world over for the last 20 dragons, last song and last three landmark viewers.

Most people are having trouble because they 1) want an RTS or 2) wanted a hack and slash. The team should have explained the gameplay much earlier on because few were expecting strategy and are now disappointed. Me? I wasn't sure what to think at first, but I'm absolutely in love with the game.

And, again, I suck at strategy games and thus have a hard time enjoying them. If I love this one so much then it must be doing a lot of things right.

Seems like most people had apretty easy time finishing it. I dropped the difficulty during the black tear sections but I went back and did them normal afterwards and they weren't too bad.

I found the Judas Priest bike guys to be the all round most useful unit to send out.

That tree was still very annoying though... it kills about 30 or 40 of your guys before it goes down.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

I breezed through those sections except for 1 tense but fun battle (the first fight against Drowning Doom) and that cheatactular fight against the Coil, fuck you and your autospawning heavy weapons.

 

[RavingPenguin]

So the infantry are not as ineffective against the coil as they were against drowning doom? I'll try using them again so. Are the enemies finite?

Another thing... Tim says that you should always be in the centre of the battle, swinging your axe.

When I do this, Eddie is dead within 2 or 3 seconds. Half the time there is so much chaos that you don't even know who is attacking you. And those goddamn lightning throwing horse riders...ugh.

I never use the zeppelin solo because I always die before I even finish playing the damn thing.

Bear in mind I have NEVER played an RTS.

The reaper horses are meant to destroy you almost instantly, thus the need for strategy. Use your army to take them out quickly. Blitzkreig attacks straight through the middle always worked for me though. Work early to capture all the fan guysers then keep pushing through to the enemy stage. Always be sure to keep your army full and balanced. If you're having trouble surviving try finding all the serpent scuptures, finding ten will award you a bonus health, regeneration, or troop bonuses.

 

[teknoarcanist]

Now see, I thought the stage battles were a fucking blast, and didn't get the criticism.

Now it makes sense.

YER DOIN IT WRONG.

One thing I will say: I wish there were still some stage battles to be had after the game is over; I feel like only now (going back and doing all the side quests and whatnot) am I getting some really awesome stuff that would have been extremely useful (flaming zeppelin, anyone?) in those last two battles. I guess there's multiplayer...but...eh.

And those wings. I should have those wings all the goddamn time after beating the game, or at least be able to solo-summon them every now and then.

 

[Greyfall]

Well at least Tim came back and explained it. Most developers wouldnt bother.

 

[Ultrajoe]

There... there is a Tutorial. You free the headbangers. Eddie does it, you kill some statues. Giggles are had. You even learn the power of solos and how they turn the tide of battle in your favour. There is a cutscene!

What is there to the battles other than the four basic commands and the ability to make new dudes? You get an intro and explanation of all your new guys and what they do.