Time to have a talk about trends in anime

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Given my recent posts and my general views on the medium, I think it's time to have a bit of a talk

Maybe it's a case of 20/20 hindsight but I find that the recent crop of anime has been getting worse and worse on average, if slightly. Sure, we get possible classics like Psycho-Pass, Kill la Kill, and Captain Earth but it seems that for every one of these, there are two or more either mediocre slice-of-life or stupefying harem show that gives more cause to want to detach from the medium.

I love anime and that's why this pains me; I want to like the artistic potential of anime to talk about big issues, tell moving stories, and create wonderful worlds but It seems that many of the big players are either content with otaku pandering or are just getting lazy. Hell, even Sunrise, a company I supported due to their Gundam shows, is now starting to become a shallow imitation of itself after Valvrave and Buddy Complex. And even shows I'm watching have some unfortunate implications; No Game No Life in particular seems to really trying to push the brocon thing without it being obvious even if Sora gets more and more people added into his entourage.

I blame one trend for this apparent decline: the focus on appealing to the base instincts of otaku and NEET instead of the more high-minded intelligence. Yes, there will always be cheap pandering crap on the market but it seems that some companies are only focusing on producing either feel-good crap, self-insert fantasies or waifu bait. I really do wish the industry tries to actually push the envelope and make stuff of artistic quality instead of pandering.

 

[Elfgore]

You call it a decline, I call it something I love staying the same. I enjoy those mediocre harems, I enjoy the hell out of them. I don't understand the viewpoint that every anime has to be the next Cowboy Bepop or something. If you don't like something, don't watch it, ignore it. Even though you don't like it, others do. They're pandering for a reason, a lot of people like it. I appreciate a well-written story and characters, but there are times I want something mindless. There isn't even that many trope-ridden, mediocre harems out there. Most at least try to break away from norms and those that don't never go far.

Keep in mind too, that anime is expensive to make. Very expensive. Why be a risk-taker and not just go the known path to profit. Artistic anime sells great if it takes off, but it more often than not doesn't.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

You call it a decline, I call it something I love staying the same. I enjoy those mediocre harems, I enjoy the hell out of them. I don't understand the viewpoint that every anime has to be the next Cowboy Bepop or something. If you don't like something, don't watch it, ignore it. Even though you don't like it, others do. They're pandering for a reason, a lot of people like it. I appreciate a well-written story and characters, but there are times I want something mindless. There isn't even that many trope-ridden, mediocre harems out there. Most at least try to break away from norms and those that don't never go far.

Keep in mind too, that anime is expensive to make. Very expensive. Why be a risk-taker and not just go the known path to profit. Artistic anime sells great if it takes off, but it more often than not doesn't.

I suppose I'm overreacting since this was the year we had Super Sonico and Recently, My sister is unusual; two shows that are highlights of the worst trends in anime.

I really just want it to end, the pandering, the stupid waifu bait, the general mediocrity of even good studios.

 

[Elfgore]

I suppose I'm overreacting since this was the year we had Super Sonico and Recently, My sister is unusual; two shows that are highlights of the worst trends in anime.

I really just want it to end, the pandering, the stupid waifu bait, the general mediocrity of even good studios.

I agree that both of those were terrible, Super Sonico being pointless in my opinion and Recently, My Sister is Unusual not living up to its full potential. But the fact those were made means there was a market somewhere for them. Even if you and I don't care for them.

The pandering doesn't bother me, I'm pretty good at ignoring things like that. Only one show has yet to get my angry at what it does. It's called Isshoni Training: Training with Hinako. It's twenty minutes of a big-breasted, scantily clad girl doing a work out. Made to "make otaku exercise." They are exercising, just their hand and arm. To play devils advocate for the good studios making bad anime, I would say that's all about money. They need money to take the risk and make the anime we consider amazing. The only studio I've seen that releases constantly good works is Shaft.

Japan's otaku are a very timid crowd. They don't like change and will drop an anime/manga instantly if something happens they don't like. If you don't pander to them, you'll crash in burn. Since that's the only crowd they care about too, they cater to them. They care nothing for foreign crowds or sales.

Edit: I finally watched that work out anime. Within ten minutes I've seen more boob jiggling than in a hundred episodes of Fairy Tail. It's just painful to watch.

 

[gagagaga]

I do think anime is increasingly selling itself to a niche crowd of basement dwellers, which does not seem like a recipe for long term success or the production of works of artistic merit. The anime industry does have a couple of "auteurs" - people like Ikuhara, Urobuchi (who isn't a director but definitely counts) and Masaaki Yuasa, who mix it up a bit, which is good, but I think the industry as a whole needs to start aiming at broader audiences to survive.

 

[Riot3000]

I think you are very big overreacting in fact this attitude really rubs me the wrong way. Honestly anime does not need to all be smart and groundbreaking like you can have Cowboy Bebop, you can have your Fist of the North Star, Tenchi and all that stuff. I mean I hear all this stuff about pandering and their is only this and that type are people looking hard enough.

http://anichart.net/spring

I mean besides established genres it seems to a lot for everybody depending on what your looking for. I only see like 3 or 4 of this otaku bait everyone bemoans about.

I mean why does anime have this weird "basement dweller" vs "elite" dichotomy.

Like was there ever a time when all anime was groundbreaking and innovative that was a time that never existed.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

You should forget all the crappy anime and watch JoJo. JoJo is everything that is right in the world.

 

[NiPah]

I blame one trend for this apparent decline: the focus on appealing to the base instincts of otaku and NEET instead of the more high-minded intelligence.

Those high minded intelligent people were too stupid to support their favorite mind bending anime series, thus they sold like shit, thus Sunrise won't get funding for shows that investors rightfully expect to sell like shit.

The evil smelly otaku and NEET crowd actually bought the shows, bought the products, and supported the medium, thus studios bend over backwards to cater to a demographic that puts food on the table.

So which other fanbase do you want to insult? Maybe all those weird women who buy the Shojo series like Free! maybe if they were out of the picture the high-intelligence crowd would be remembered again.

 

[Imre Csete]

That you mention Kill la Kill as a possible classic speaks volumes about the state of the anime industry.

/flameshield on

 

[michael87cn]

There isn't a decline. I found more anime recently that I loved than I have for a long time. If anything there's a massive increase in good shows.

 

[DME]

Well if you are looking for "high minded and intelligent" art, then watching anime is a pretty low percentage play. Then again if Gundam is your high water mark maybe not...

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Here's a secret: Most of the stuff back during the heyday was shit, too. Want to know why we only look back and see the classics? Because we collectively dump all the useless baggage. The shows that get remembered are the shows that are good, not the crap. Last year it was Attack on Titan, this year, it was Kill La Kill. How many other shows have been released this season that you are going to forget about in two months time?

History filters things down to the best ones. Do you think everything Winston Churchill said was instant quote gold? No, but we don't remember his stupid drunken rants, just his funny and clever ones.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Well if you are looking for "high minded and intelligent" art, then watching anime is a pretty low percentage play. Then again if Gundam is your high water mark maybe not...

A) what is wrong with Gundam, the recent Gundam shows such as AGE have gone downhill but the early ones had political topics around the edges of the main plot. Also the high water mark for me is not Gundam but Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex.

B) the fact that anime is seen as a low percentage play compared to other forms of media is what pisses me off the most. You know how people have been trying to make others see gaming as legitimate, I'm trying to tell people "hey, anime is a medium that enables the exploration of topic and is on par with movies and live action shows". The issue is that most people will point to the fanservice crap and disregard the entire genre (how many times have you heard the "anime is nothing but tentacles" joke). I don't want the medium I grew up with to forever been seen as pure wank material.

That you mention Kill la Kill as a possible classic speaks volumes about the state of the anime industry.

/flameshield on

If you are going to make a comment, please do more than a one sentence thing.

A)Kill la Kill has memorable characters, good action, a nice mix of funny and serious, and it does try to work it's fanservice into the plot in symbolic and literal terms. I can see why some might not like it but what reason do you have for not saying it won't be seen as a classic (Tenshi Muyo is a classic and I'm not sure it had characters as memorable as Mako or Satsuki)

B)What exactly is the "state of the anime industry"? I think I already know but if you are going to say something, you best back it up.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I blame one trend for this apparent decline: the focus on appealing to the base instincts of otaku and NEET instead of the more high-minded intelligence.

Those high minded intelligent people were too stupid to support their favorite mind bending anime series, thus they sold like shit, thus Sunrise won't get funding for shows that investors rightfully expect to sell like shit.

The evil smelly otaku and NEET crowd actually bought the shows, bought the products, and supported the medium, thus studios bend over backwards to cater to a demographic that puts food on the table.

So which other fanbase do you want to insult? Maybe all those weird women who buy the Shojo series like Free! maybe if they were out of the picture the high-intelligence crowd would be remembered again.

Yes, it is true that a lot of the high minded did not buy blurays or anything like that but lets look at it from a financial standpoint. Most companies release only a few episodes, around 3 to 4 per bluray and charge around 60 dollars for each. Now lets put this in context of a game that I'm sure we all know: Watch_Dogs. Watchdogs has a 60 dollar standard edition and a 20 dollar session pass for around 8 different pieces of DLC. To get the full watchdogs experience costs 80 dollars, getting the full Persona 4 experience with it's 10 volumes costs around 600 usd. I see the pricing of blurays and media releases as detrimental and self-fulling. the companies are not trying to sell their product at competitive prices that are accessible to a large portion of people, they decided to set the high price and compensate the lack of sales numbers that way. This in turn grants more market influence towards otaku which steer anime towards fanservice and which pushes the ones that like smart anime away

Lets look at what an average Japanese man does; he works long hours with some people telling me they work unpaid overtime just to be considered a good worker, Japan itself is still in a small economic decline, and the cost of living is relatively high. Compare that to the average otaku; the otaku does not need to pay for his own room or living costs since his parents are supporting him. This gives him surplus cash that the average consumer won't have and combined with the higher price point.

While I will admit that we don't buy as much things, we also might not have the financial capability to do so.

As for the last paragraph, i do not care what gender you are or weather you are actually smart, the continual consumption of fanservice and harem shows has lead to the emergence of brocon/siscon as a relationship, the rise of female characters as waifus instead of fully fleshed characters, and the general mediocrity of other shows.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I think you are very big overreacting in fact this attitude really rubs me the wrong way. Honestly anime does not need to all be smart and groundbreaking like you can have Cowboy Bebop, you can have your Fist of the North Star, Tenchi and all that stuff. I mean I hear all this stuff about pandering and their is only this and that type are people looking hard enough.

http://anichart.net/spring

I mean besides established genres it seems to a lot for everybody depending on what your looking for. I only see like 3 or 4 of this otaku bait everyone bemoans about.

I mean why does anime have this weird "basement dweller" vs "elite" dichotomy.

Like was there ever a time when all anime was groundbreaking and innovative that was a time that never existed.

Perhaps I will admit that I have a tendency to overreact but the fact that Blade and Soul( a piece of shit show that only has it's female characters as a draw) and Fuun Ishin Dai Shougun (a show that is very self-insert and with bad gender politics) are made does not speak well.

Also, there was a time that anime was groundbreaking and innovative: the very start. Osamu Tesuka, Go Nagai, Yoshiyuki Tomino and others had to use limited resources and even less money to the present to create what a lot of people still love today: Astroboy, Space Battleship Yamato, Captain Harlock, and various other classics. At this rate, the industry will be stuck up it's own ass

 

[Majinash]

I disagree that we have to have a talk about anime. Back in the day my exposure was limited. Only things that US companies decided to pick up and air on Sci-Fi or Cartoon Network, and some of the stuff I could find in Blockbuster.

These days I watch any and everything, subbed or dubbed. I get to pick and choose the anime I watch... and that has lead me to find things that aren't the very best that season has to offer.

I doubt the anime-scape has really changed, but if you lived outside Japan what spectrum of anime did you have access to?

Also I think No Game No Life is amazing. The art is incredible, colors vivid, comedy is spot on and the people are interesting.

For me anime is at an all time high. These past 2 seasons have been full of things I've loved. I also finally caught up on Gurren Lagaan last year. I don't mind the tropes, a lot of them I love. And the medium is so varied that there is pretty much something for everyone.

Anime is in a great place right now, only getting better. I thought I loved Gundam Wing... until I found Gundam 00. Things keep improving for me, so I wouldn't have it any other way.


EDIT: I'll agree about Blade and Soul. But I assumed that it was just a big commercial for the game and dropped it. You'll always find stuff like that in any medium, and it doesn't mean we have to change anything. Everything can't be great, and with 20+ new series on my radar every season, even if 10 are terrible I'd say thats a win.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

You should forget all the crappy anime and watch JoJo. JoJo is everything that is right in the world.

While I admit that JoJo's Bizzare Adventure is a good show with fluid animation, characters that are simple but memorable, and a lot of humor, I will only call it a classic like how Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is a classic: fun but not a very good story.

 

[Lilani]

Given my recent posts and my general views on the medium, I think it's time to have a bit of a talk

Maybe it's a case of 20/20 hindsight but I find that the recent crop of anime has been getting worse and worse on average, if slightly. Sure, we get possible classics like Psycho-Pass, Kill la Kill, and Captain Earth but it seems that for every one of these, there are two or more either mediocre slice-of-life or stupefying harem show that gives more cause to want to detach from the medium.

There is not a single medium of anything in existence that has more high-quality works put out than low- or medium-quality works. Thousands upon thousands of books come out each year, and only a small portion are in any way groundbreaking or considered worthy of further study. On the whole most of them are drivel. Hundreds of movies come out each year, but only a couple if any at all will be highly remembered and regarded 20 years from now. Again, on the whole, most are not of great quality. Millions of paintings and drawings and sculptures are made every year, but only a tiny fraction will make it into museums or exhibitions. And yet again, most drawings and paintings that will be made this year are nothing very remarkable.

Bearing that in mind, I think the fact that you can name not only one but several shows which may be possible classics is absolutely stupendous news. The quality of anime has drastically risen since the medium first began. Don't forget that anime started as essentially the Hanna-Barbara approach to making cartoons--designing things to require as little animation as possible, so that as many shows can be made with as little money and materials as possible. And also very simple yet highly marketable characters who will make children beg their parents to buy action figures and such. And while anime today is still very driven by marketing (as everything in the world is, honestly), there's a lot more creative freedom and a greater opportunity for artists to just run wild and tell awesome stories. Since the market as a whole as grown so much, so have the number of outliers who don't follow typical marketing models, or who follow the models but pull them off so creatively and memorably that they transcend the blandness of their own formulas (like Gurren Lagaan).

So please, stop bemoaning anime or ANYTHING for that matter just because the amount of crap outnumbers the amount of good. Everything is like this, everything has always been like this, and everything will always be like this. It's just how we as humans work--we're more likely to put out crappy or moderate or safe work than stupendous or daring work, especially when money is involved.

 

[spartenX]

I think I have a theory as to why there seems to be an increase in bad or stupid anime in recent years. there isn't actually an increase and the bad anime to good anime ratio has mostly stayed the same.

You see, 15 or so years ago you probably wouldn't have ever run into the kinds of anime you don't like, not because there weren't as many of them (though there may have been an increase in certain genres that you dislike) but because many of them weren't getting dubbed, or at least there dub's weren't getting much exposure. Dubbing company's were dubbing anime either for kids or a niche market, and so had to be picky about what they did dub, either choosing series that were doing well in japan or looked like they would do well over seas, or stuff that was low end and stupid, and they could probably get the distribution rights for fairly cheap. as such, the high end stuff got most exposure, while the low end stuff got little (though there are exceptions on both sides).

In the age of the internet however, we don't have to wait for dubbing company's to dub anime for us, we can go find it ourselves. but this means we have to look through all the crappy harems and otaku bait to find the next trigun or cowboy beebop, instead of dubbing company's doing it for us.

it's not that there are more bad anime then there used to be, it's just that we get exposed to it more than we used too.

.......of course I could just be talking out of my ass with this theory, but it seems plausible.