Time Travel (Because that hasn't been done before)
- Thread starter Slyvena
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Yes I love how they worked it in primer! That would be one of my examples of a good time travel story that uses time travel well and doesn't hide sloppy writing within paradoxes.
Yes, Looper a little ridiculous but fun to watch, it was a big influence on me deciding to write the OP.
Some Clarification, when I said my model 'works well' I meant in a telling a story sense, not in a 'this is actually how it would work if it was possible' way.
You are correct, GPS satellites need to make adjustments for relativity (Because both time and space are relative) or they become about 10 kilometers more inaccurate every day! Which for navigating a road that is maybe 7-8 meters wide is... bad.
I'd like to debate with you, but in any good story time travel is only a vehicle to move the story along. For example, in Back to the Future time travel is just a flimsy excuse to have someone interact with their parents. In the Time Machine, time travel is just a way to reset the world into a form that is conducive to the story while moving an observe from 'our time' there. A good story focuses more on the consequences and interaction of characters then on actual time travel and thus it will always be kind of sketchy since its not really that important. Who cares how it works so long as it got character A to character B even if that isn't normally possible (and possibly provides a conflict in the form of universe destroying paradoxes). It the same reason people ignore the fact that Star Trek routinely rewrote physics, its its own in universe physics, to suit its needs.
I can see where your coming from, but disagree. Yeah Characters are definitely one of the most important parts of a story, but so often half way through a movie involving time travel I find myself saying "Why on earth did he do that? Why couldn't he do that thing he already did before? Oh that's right, because then he would win, movie over"
Internal consistency, I don't mind a movie having some stupid silly fun rules, as long as it plays them out fully and doesn't just use them when it's convenient, because when that happens it causes a moment of disjoint where I'm reminded that I'm not watching real people that make real decisions, I'm watching sheep being herded toward a desired ending.
Internal consistency, I don't mind a movie having some stupid silly fun rules, as long as it plays them out fully and doesn't just use them when it's convenient, because when that happens it causes a moment of disjoint where I'm reminded that I'm not watching real people that make real decisions, I'm watching sheep being herded toward a desired ending.
Even assuming it's possible to travel back in time, I don't believe it's possible to change the past.
a) Trying to change anything in the past will not have any affect on your present because your actions in the past create a divergent alternate universe which bears the ramifications of said actions.
-or-
b) Any action or inaction you attempt to preform in the past will ultimately only lead to your present.
a) Trying to change anything in the past will not have any affect on your present because your actions in the past create a divergent alternate universe which bears the ramifications of said actions.
-or-
b) Any action or inaction you attempt to preform in the past will ultimately only lead to your present.
Actually in the original timeline Time Travel in general hadn't been done before this thread you just made, however after this people went back in time and made Time Travel threads, films, books, games, etc.... So really, you are to blame for any and all of it.
And I only know this because I am one of the few trusted with watching over time, thus am not effected by the memory-altering effects of time travelling to the past and changing future (currently present) events. We are the Timewatch-Dudes... the name was invented in the 70's. Not the 1970's, just the 70's. Yes "Dude" was a widely used term in Rome, it was used synonymously with "Brosef" which meant "Young Gentleman of Esteem".
Does that help at all?
Also, if you want to inquire about joining the Timewatch-Dudes then we do have a premium rate hotline you can call however we do hope you realise there was/is/will be some kind of recession somewhere at some point in time so its hard to get a job these/those days or it will be sometime.
And I only know this because I am one of the few trusted with watching over time, thus am not effected by the memory-altering effects of time travelling to the past and changing future (currently present) events. We are the Timewatch-Dudes... the name was invented in the 70's. Not the 1970's, just the 70's. Yes "Dude" was a widely used term in Rome, it was used synonymously with "Brosef" which meant "Young Gentleman of Esteem".
Does that help at all?
Also, if you want to inquire about joining the Timewatch-Dudes then we do have a premium rate hotline you can call however we do hope you realise there was/is/will be some kind of recession somewhere at some point in time so its hard to get a job these/those days or it will be sometime.
Lots of interesting discussion going on, and I don't feel like reading it all, so if someone hit this point, then by all means, I've been 'Ninja'd'.
I like to think that all time is a single, static line. Time itself doesn't flow, but instead we flow through it, or rather perceive it in a linear motion. Picture a line, spanning infinitely in both directions. Every event that has happened, or ever will happen, is on this line.
This idea comes from the concept of Tachyons; Theoretical particles that move backward through time. If these particles can move backwards through time, then are we only perceiving time as moving forward? Does time move at all?
I don't believe that time travel involves timeline alteration, or alternate timelines. While I do believe in alternate universes, I don't believe time travel would consist of creating and destroying timelines.
The idea is, all events have already 'happened', but not in the traditional cause-effect sense of 'happened'. Everything happened at once, rather than the 'is set to happen' notion of fate or predetermination. I believe free will still exists, as one still makes decisions, but our entire future is along this line, as if all actions you'll ever make are already made. It does sound contradictory, but its hard to put into words, let alone perceive.
Example time:
In this theory, past events cannot be altered, as they have already happened on the timeline.
So, if someone were to invent a time machine, they do not assassinate Hitler, because Hitler was not assassinated by timetravelers.
However, an important factor comes into play when discussing time travel, and is oft forgotten. Earth is moving. If someone where to create a time machine, they could only go back to a point in which Earth is in the same location as it is in the departure time. While not impossible, this could perhaps limit the potential windows for time travel, and certainly attach a hefty amount of calculations to allow for successful travel.
Now, obviously, small jumps in time wouldn't be as difficult.
I like to think that all time is a single, static line. Time itself doesn't flow, but instead we flow through it, or rather perceive it in a linear motion. Picture a line, spanning infinitely in both directions. Every event that has happened, or ever will happen, is on this line.
This idea comes from the concept of Tachyons; Theoretical particles that move backward through time. If these particles can move backwards through time, then are we only perceiving time as moving forward? Does time move at all?
I don't believe that time travel involves timeline alteration, or alternate timelines. While I do believe in alternate universes, I don't believe time travel would consist of creating and destroying timelines.
The idea is, all events have already 'happened', but not in the traditional cause-effect sense of 'happened'. Everything happened at once, rather than the 'is set to happen' notion of fate or predetermination. I believe free will still exists, as one still makes decisions, but our entire future is along this line, as if all actions you'll ever make are already made. It does sound contradictory, but its hard to put into words, let alone perceive.
Example time:
In this theory, past events cannot be altered, as they have already happened on the timeline.
So, if someone were to invent a time machine, they do not assassinate Hitler, because Hitler was not assassinated by timetravelers.
However, an important factor comes into play when discussing time travel, and is oft forgotten. Earth is moving. If someone where to create a time machine, they could only go back to a point in which Earth is in the same location as it is in the departure time. While not impossible, this could perhaps limit the potential windows for time travel, and certainly attach a hefty amount of calculations to allow for successful travel.
Now, obviously, small jumps in time wouldn't be as difficult.
Nowadays I subscribe by the many worlds/multiverse theory, and personally find any other concept of timelines outside of sci fi or fantasy to be kind of silly; easily breakable through reasoning.
Essentially I believe that all reality exists simultaneously, and the third dimension is divided into quanta of existence, or "frames", like a digital video. At any given quanta existence, an infinite number of possible divergences occur. Each frame is connected to an unlimited number of possible branches.
If time travel was possible, and one tried to change the past, depending on how their time travel works, they may either find themselves in one of these branched timelines, and to them the change will appear to have occurred. OR, they will end up back in their own timeline, confused as to why nothing changed. This is because they will have become the causation of a given divergence. Whether or not they remain on that divergence when traveling back, depends on the machine in question.
Simultaneously, the people from the traveler's universe, and that universe would go unchanged. The traveler will have appeared to vanish completely at the moment of time travel, but all memories regarding him and anything he caused will go unchanged. He simply moved to a different timeline.
I find this theory neatly negates any paradoxes involved in time travel. It's better to think of "time" as another dimension of change, like the third, second, and first dimensions, rather than something completely different.
Assuming travel through the dimension above time is impossible (which it probably is), your theory would be observably correct, as we'd never be able to observe alternate timelines.
Essentially I believe that all reality exists simultaneously, and the third dimension is divided into quanta of existence, or "frames", like a digital video. At any given quanta existence, an infinite number of possible divergences occur. Each frame is connected to an unlimited number of possible branches.
If time travel was possible, and one tried to change the past, depending on how their time travel works, they may either find themselves in one of these branched timelines, and to them the change will appear to have occurred. OR, they will end up back in their own timeline, confused as to why nothing changed. This is because they will have become the causation of a given divergence. Whether or not they remain on that divergence when traveling back, depends on the machine in question.
Simultaneously, the people from the traveler's universe, and that universe would go unchanged. The traveler will have appeared to vanish completely at the moment of time travel, but all memories regarding him and anything he caused will go unchanged. He simply moved to a different timeline.
I find this theory neatly negates any paradoxes involved in time travel. It's better to think of "time" as another dimension of change, like the third, second, and first dimensions, rather than something completely different.
Our beliefs are essentially the same. However, the "line" we perceive that you describe is the result of each individual "version" of the self making choices and chances, determining a path without branches a long each infinite intersection of time. I would also like to point out that timelines are never "destroyed" or nullified in my concept of the many worlds theory.Stainlesssteele4 said:
Assuming travel through the dimension above time is impossible (which it probably is), your theory would be observably correct, as we'd never be able to observe alternate timelines.