In your position, I would consider it rude to ask for extra money for something I have already payed for. Depending on the circumstances I would either leave the envelope empty or write a note saying something along the lines of "Tip: Get a better job if you can't live on this one".
Now my opinion on tipping. If the service goes above and beyond what I am expecting, I might say keep the change.
Cruickshank said:
Boris Goodenough said:
I still feel bad for calculating a wrong tip for a waiter in New Orleans in 2005 This is what tip shaming culture has come to...
at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.
That said the US has ridiculous minimum wages, I'd never get out of bed for a job that offered anything less than $20/hr yet I often hear of people getting a lousy $10-15. You guys really need to sort that shit out.
LOL, where I live a HUGE percentage of people earn only min wage, $7.50, and if thats not bad enough min wage jobs aren't full time. Here they are usually 8-15 a week. AND the schedule is NOT fixed. Its more like this week we'll schedule you for these 2 days and we might cancel on you if its slow, and you call us these other 3 days to see if we want you to come in. Now try and get 3 of these jobs at the same time to see if you can even come close to 40 hours a week.
And then there is the commute issue. My area has buses, but they don't run even 30 minutes or anything. So good luck getting to work at random times. And having a car is a crippling expense. Just gas alone for a 15 minute or more drive can eat up half your paycheck. Especially if you get called in for like 2-3 hour shifts.
And its still not easy to get these jobs. Every time there is an opening there are dozens of applications. So yeah, the companies treat you like utter crap and will fire you the first time you are a couple minutes late. Some of the business people I know work at have like 50% new employees every month.
Minimum wage isnt the problem in most cases as you have point out. A large reason why people veiw minimum wage as so low is the part time positions where minimum wage is used.
However please understand the reasons behind the usage for part time employees and why it is not ideal for business' to use full time workers.
Not to long ago the government passed the Affordable Healthcare Act (Obamacare) which, among other things, requires that business' with more than 50 full time employees pay for a healthcare plan (because of a delay this isnt supposed to happen until 2015 but business' have been making the change to part time since this was announced in 2010-11). This is a huge expense and in most industries where minimum wage is common, bottom line is all that matters. Wal- Mart and Publix cant sell their products as cheap if they have to pay healthcare plans for thousands of employees. Therefor they use a lot more part time employees to keep the number low. It also alows for a more flexible schedule and overall lower operating costs.
My only advice for you is to either learn a trade or something that allows you to move past entry level positions, or go above and beyond what you are asked to show yourself as a valued employee. Showing up on time or even before goes a long way for a lot of business owners.
My company has 5 full time workers and 3 part time workers. Even still we went through roughly 40 employees last year alone. Most of these were due to employees not showing up when told or not doing the tasks they were told to do. Everyone wants a job and no one wants to work.
Its actually to the point now where I am either going to have to subcontract all my work out, or raise my prices across the board to try and get some higher quality employees. Havn't quite decided yet.
at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.
Servers have to tip out their bussers and bar tenders a percentage of their sales, if you don't leave at least some money as a tip you are actually taking money away from your server since your meal boosted their sales.
If they raised minimum wages the food would cost more, all the income would be taxed as well. Rather than pay more for the meal and see the government taking more from a person on the low income scale I'd rather keep the prices low and tip some money that the server (hopefully) is smart enough to not bother declaring so they can use it to get by or even save up for future plans.
Sales are not factored in to "tipouts" which is what you are talking about. A tipout is when A server gives a percentage of their tips to their bussers and bar tenders. Usually about 5%-10%. Tipouts are not factored by the amount of service that is done or how much the ticket was. The only thing that is counted is the tips given. Even still, tipouts are not a standard part of the industry and vary wildly from restaurant to restaurant.
You are not taking money from anyone by not tipping.
Regardless, as I have stated many times before in this thread, It is illegal for a business to pay less than minimum wage and less than the time worked. If the server does not at least make minimum wage with the combined total of their hourly rate and tip total, the employer HAS to pay the difference.
If no one tipped servers they would still get at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour which is the same fore bussers or bartenders.
I would also advise you to not tell people to not report their tips to their employer as that is the same as stealing from the company and grounds for termination. There is no tipped based business out there (at least I hope not) that lets their employees pocket cash tips.
Please do not take this persons advice and pocket tips unless you are OK with losing your job.
Nope, state of NV doesn't make up the difference because servers are paid minimum wage, minimum wage isn't enough to live on.
I worked in restaurants for ten years, every place required 3% of total sales (not tips) to go to the busser, 5% of bar sales (not tips) to go to the server. Then $3 (flat) is paid to the runner who keeps the server line stocked and clean.
All servers declared about 10% of their sales as tip income each night, the company lost no money since the servers are getting minimum wage as a base and don't get paid extra. The amount of income not being declared is insignificant enough that an audit won't happen and if it does the server won't be caught. It allows people to survive on low wages and short hours.
There is legislation in the works that I have been backing to make tips non declared income, hopefully it passes and the government can try hiking taxes on rich people instead if taking a larger cut from the lower income people.
Anyway, I guess the point is to no assume that the way it is done in your state is how it is done everywhere. Tips are pretty important for someone trying to support a family without education for a better job.
To some extent, that is right. However, there are tip-based jobs that do earn minimum wage, but most of that minimum wage goes into supporting the job itself. For instance, a pizza delivery guy probably earns minimum wage, but that just manages to cover gas and maybe a few wear-and-tear costs on his car. Tips are basically his wage for doing anything outside of just trying to keep a job.
So you're telling me that an average pizza delivery guy don't have a company car?
He actually has to use his private car AND cover the expences for doing so himself?
Yes. Between my friends and me, I know plenty of people who have either worked at or tried to work at one of the major pizza restaurants (Dominoes, Pizza Hut, Papa John's). All of them require their delivery people to provide their own car, and while the store may provide some compensation, for the most part, a lot of the wages, at least indirectly, will go into paying for the gas to deliver all the pizzas. I actually remember a friend from Pizza Hut making a long Facebook post meant to teach her friends how to tip simply because she or a coworker could go a few hours without technically earning anything due to bad tippers.
Now, I believe some smaller, family-owned pizza restaurants do provide the car for their workers, but this is the exception, not the norm.
Don't know if this helps but this has always been my method.
Take 10% of the bill cost(so shift the decimal place)
then just divide that by 2 and add them together.
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
NiPah said:
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
The ettiquite changes in every country. In the UK it's 10% if you approve of the service. The reason we don't bother searching for it in Google is because we simply don't give a damn.
I think I was tired and semi stressed at the time, and made mistake, first one I had done on my entire 3 month trip in the US, so I can calculate in my head but I do appriciate the sentiment.
at the expense of looking like a clueless tourist should i ever visit America (i plan to at some point in the future), im just going to avoid the whole tipping culture entirely, why should someone feel ashamed for not paying extra on top of the bill? if a meal costs $20 then thats all im paying and damn the dirty looks i may get.
Servers have to tip out their bussers and bar tenders a percentage of their sales, if you don't leave at least some money as a tip you are actually taking money away from your server since your meal boosted their sales.
If they raised minimum wages the food would cost more, all the income would be taxed as well. Rather than pay more for the meal and see the government taking more from a person on the low income scale I'd rather keep the prices low and tip some money that the server (hopefully) is smart enough to not bother declaring so they can use it to get by or even save up for future plans.
Sales are not factored in to "tipouts" which is what you are talking about. A tipout is when A server gives a percentage of their tips to their bussers and bar tenders. Usually about 5%-10%. Tipouts are not factored by the amount of service that is done or how much the ticket was. The only thing that is counted is the tips given. Even still, tipouts are not a standard part of the industry and vary wildly from restaurant to restaurant.
You are not taking money from anyone by not tipping.
Regardless, as I have stated many times before in this thread, It is illegal for a business to pay less than minimum wage and less than the time worked. If the server does not at least make minimum wage with the combined total of their hourly rate and tip total, the employer HAS to pay the difference.
If no one tipped servers they would still get at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour which is the same fore bussers or bartenders.
I would also advise you to not tell people to not report their tips to their employer as that is the same as stealing from the company and grounds for termination. There is no tipped based business out there (at least I hope not) that lets their employees pocket cash tips.
Please do not take this persons advice and pocket tips unless you are OK with losing your job.
Thats because the State of Nv does not allow business' to take a tip credit. Because all employees are automatically paid minimum wage, there is no difference to make up. Minimum wage is designed to be the minimum amount to live on so if you feel your state's minimum is too low, you should start lobbying. Tipping has nothing to do with that.
Treeinthewoods said:
I worked in restaurants for ten years, every place required 3% of total sales (not tips) to go to the busser, 5% of bar sales (not tips) to go to the server. Then $3 (flat) is paid to the runner who keeps the server line stocked and clean.
What you are talking about here is a form of tip pooling that is determined by net sales of product and is a very big legally grey area. This practice is not common and will more than likley be the target of quite a few lawsuits before it is declared illegal. The percentages you listed are also not standard with the business' that practice this type of tip pooling.
They are also required to inform employees if a form of tip pooling or tippouts are practice before they hire them and in most cases, the business management cant have any say as to the percentage of tips shared or pooled.
Treeinthewoods said:
All servers declared about 10% of their sales as tip income each night, the company lost no money since the servers are getting minimum wage as a base and don't get paid extra. The amount of income not being declared is insignificant enough that an audit won't happen and if it does the server won't be caught. It allows people to survive on low wages and short hours.
The IRS no longer audits individuals in these situations and instead holds the employer responsible. The type of tip pooling you are talking about has led to a very large amount of problems and is quickly fading out of use.
The IRS determines an employees cash tips based on their credit tips. They treat your cash bills on the same percentage as you received for credit bills.
Just by chance, the restaurants you were working in, were they located in or around a big city like Reno or Las Vegas?
Treeinthewoods said:
There is legislation in the works that I have been backing to make tips non declared income, hopefully it passes and the government can try hiking taxes on rich people instead if taking a larger cut from the lower income people.
Personally I believe in lower taxes for everyone rich and poor and limited federal government spending. But you and I both know that they are going to tax the poor and middle class regardless. I dont think that law passing would do much to help. I also believe it will get a lot of non tipped minimum wage workers up in arms. Not sure how well something like that would work.
Its also only likley to be able to work in the 7 or so states that dont do tip credits like Nv. In states with tip credits it would create to many issues with tip credits that wont work while its the standard.
Treeinthewoods said:
Anyway, I guess the point is to no assume that the way it is done in your state is how it is done everywhere. Tips are pretty important for someone trying to support a family without education for a better job.
I dont assume. I go by industry standard for the entire nation. It just so happens that in my state (Georgia) the industry standards more or less equal the state standards.
These entry level positions arent really designed to be worked for life. Ideally you should aim to move up in the business you are working for. It is not uncommon for workers (some without even a GED) to eventually obtain a management position.
If the person cant survive on that rate and there is no room for advancement within the company then they should work towards finding a new job with a better rate or an education to obtain a better position.
Also as I sated before, Minimum wage is acceptable to live off of for one person in most parts of the united states. The closer you get towards big cities the more you need to be paid. You should not expect to live on minimum wage in or around a metro city.
Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.
Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.
Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.
Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.
The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.
Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.
Not tipping someone isn't a "bullshit stunt" or wrong in any sense of the word. Customers are not obligated to tip in any industry and to think otherwise is ludicrous. Tipping someone is a bonus for good service above and beyond the standard. When the person serving me has shown some effort, I will tip them. In fact, even though I rarely find someone worth tipping, when I do, the tip is often double what the check was. So before insulting someone try understanding more sides than your own.
The employee will get compensated for their work by their employer if their wages do not meet the minimum wage for either the state or the federal standard. They loose nothing by you not tipping them. If they happen to be good at their job then they should find no problems getting tips. If they are crap at their job and do the minimum to get by then they should not be given a tip. This not only motivates the employee to give a better service, but allows the employer to find out if their employees are doing well in the eyes of their customers. The way the current system works, in America, they can't tell because for some reason we have been beaten to believe that tips are mandatory.
Furthermore, when I enter a transaction with a business I do not pay for the service. You order the finished product and it is up to the business how that product gets to you. They hire a company to deliver the food to them, hire someone to cook the food, hire someone to serve that food, and take care of all of the little details that go along with that process. In fact I would much rather tip the cook who makes my food as opposed to the pair of hands that brings it out to me. On more than one occasion I have asked for the cook to come out so I can tip them while at the same time not leaving a tip for whoever served me.
I would suggest, if you ever get the opportunity, to save up a bit to visit a place such as the Ritz Carolton for diner one night so you can see what service is supposed to look like. The servers there get an average of at least 30 bucks a table in tips (if its just one person at the table) but there is a reason for that.
In fact I can have my cake, eat it, and not tip for it if I so choose.
I'm not saying that it's a bullshit stunt to not tip, I'm saying it's a bullshit stunt to not just come out and say you're not going to tip before accepting the service. I get it, you'd rather spend 10$ on fermented water but you'll be fucked if you have to spend a few bucks tipping, that's ace mate but man up and give the server more time to treat you like you deserve.
Yeah it's a local custom, yeah it doesn't really make sense, but if you're fighting the system by screwing a poor kid out of a few bucks (or more depending on how much you just gave a corporation for a piece of cooked meat) then at least have the dignity of telling him to his face.
JoJo said:
NiPah said:
Ragnar47183 said:
NiPah said:
Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.
Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.
Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.
Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.
The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.
Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.
Yeah, no. The customer isn't required to pay an extra fee to get an acceptable service, put it this way. What would you call it if your mailman started demanding an extra fee or else he'd drop your parcels on your path, or your doctor put you right at the back of the waiting list for important surgery unless you pay an extra fee, or your kid's teacher would give him crap grades unless you passed some money under the desk every term? That's right, bribery. The moment tips becomes demanded for an acceptable service rather than being a voluntary custom like they're intended to be, they're bribes pure and simple.
Yeah tips suck, personally I hate tipping so I fight the system in a way that doesn't screw over a kid making less then minimum wage. I'm not talking about UK, I'm not talking about a doctors office, I'm talking about places where it's expected of you to tip (and in almost every case it's easy to avoid by not being lazy and not accepting the service from said person). If you are going to accept the service and plan to not tip, it's a bullshit stunt to not tell them before accepting the service, that's all I was saying.
You seem to think I'm saying tips are required, I'm just calling out people who fight the injustices of tipping but aren't brave enough to tell it to the face of the people they're screwing.
The Bucket said:
NiPah said:
Ragnar47183 said:
NiPah said:
Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.
Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.
Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.
Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.
The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.
Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.
Who is employing the worker, me or the restaurant? How do you find it acceptable for a worker to give bad service to someone who's paying their wages by eating at the restaurant? And how could someone who'd do that think they deserve extra money?
If they didn't offer the service then they shouldn't be tipped for the service, if they offered the service poorly then they should be tipped poorly. 5-10% for poor, 15% for acquitted, 20%+ for great, that's the standard in the US (or if you live in the UK you're SOL.
If you really think the service sucked then by all means pay a shit tip, but if you're willing to pay $20 for caramel colored sugar water and a microwaved meal but the waitress was busy and made you wait 2 minutes before taking your order and suddenly doesn't deserve that extra $3 then your priorities are screwed.
elvor0 said:
NiPah said:
Ragnar47183 said:
NiPah said:
Not tipping is fine, just let the person who is serving you that you don't plan to tip.
If there is a situation where you're not normally expected to tip (not sure about tour guides, never taken one), then it's pretty much up to you. Sometimes you don't have much money, some times it was crap service, sometimes they make more money then you apparently, what ever your reason as long as you didn't go into the situation knowing you were expected to tip then you're set.
Oh and all those who live outside of America and aren't used to tipping just Google tipping etiquette, it's not an unsolvable enigma, it's just a few weird cultural quarks that work for us.
Now if you're visiting and suddenly found yourself becoming a social justice warrior and want to fight against the blight that is tipping then grow a par of balls and let your waitress or bellhop know you don't plan to tip them before they provide the service, then you don't come off as an cheap ass and you get to save your dollar or what ever you planned to tip them.
Sure you'll get shitty service, but you've taken one for the team in the on-going battle against tipping.
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
I strongly advise you NOT to tell the person you dont plan on tipping. Especially in the food service industry. They will take it very seriously and you should expect some questionable food if you do that. I have seen this happen in multiple places.
The people serving you are making minimum wage and (For a lot of them) dont really care about their jobs. I would not suggest getting on their bad side before they serve you.
Either tell them you're not tipping or tip, pulling a bullshit stunt like accepting service when you know you're expected to tip with the full intention of not tipping is a bullshit disingenuous move. Sure you'll get shit service and some spit in your food, but you saved a buck and fought the good fight against tipping.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, be a man about not tipping.
Er no. When I've worked as a waiter, I didn't expect every single person to tip me as baseline, nobody does, the point of a tip is that it's a tip for extra good service, not the bare minimum. I'd expect a tip if I went above and beyond, not just for doing the thing I'm employed and PAID to fucking do.
On the flip side, I'll tip a waiter if they did an extra good job, not just for turning up, that's their job and their employer pays them for it, and they HAVE to cover the minium wage if they don't make it up in tips. I'm a customer, I'm not there to pay their wages or pay for them to go down the pub. So they lose nothing by me not tipping them, but I get crap service and spit in my food if I tell them I'm not tipping them. Saying "I'm not tipping you" makes you look like a real ****. The only way it would be "teasing them" if you kept implying your were going to tip them then didn't.
Frankly, I can have my cake an eat it, mainly because I paid for it.Some of that money then goes to the waiter.
I'm talking about places that you're expected to tip, and to people who know they're expected to tip.
It's a bullshit move, but hey lots of people pull bullshit moves, just don't get defensive when being called out on pulling a bullshit move.
Also I have next to no knowledge about the UK tipping culture, I'll be sure to google it before I make the trip because I don't want to be an ass (although from what I can tell no one tips in the UK).
Elementary - Dear Watson said:
NiPah said:
Edit: Holy shit, do you guys really not understand whats expected with tipping? It took me less then a minute to find the answer on Google. Your grandparents broke Hitler's encription device and you can't even figure out that you're expected to tip 15% after a good meal? For fucks sake.
The ettiquite changes in every country. In the UK it's 10% if you approve of the service. The reason we don't bother searching for it in Google is because we simply don't give a damn. We disagree with the absurd tipping culture of the US and would rather state that. Why should someone elses cultural norm (not rule or law) dictate what I give to people whom I think deserve it?
I'm talking about the US, like I said I was just talking about places where it's expected of you to tip.
I understand UK is different, tipping is not expected and it's not a cultural norm.
If you do come to the colonies it's expected that you tip, just like when I go to the UK I'm expected to call soccer football. If you come to the colonies and don't tip because you're angry at the absurd cultural idiosyncrasy that's fine too, just be a man and tell the server before hand otherwise it's a bullshit move.
It's not the worst thing in the world to do, just don't try to paint yourself a hero against a social injustice because you screwed a kid out of a few bucks and accept you pulled a bullshit move.
Yes. Between my friends and me, I know plenty of people who have either worked at or tried to work at one of the major pizza restaurants (Dominoes, Pizza Hut, Papa John's). All of them require their delivery people to provide their own car, and while the store may provide some compensation, for the most part, a lot of the wages, at least indirectly, will go into paying for the gas to deliver all the pizzas. I actually remember a friend from Pizza Hut making a long Facebook post meant to teach her friends how to tip simply because she or a coworker could go a few hours without technically earning anything due to bad tippers.
Now, I believe some smaller, family-owned pizza restaurants do provide the car for their workers, but this is the exception, not the norm.
I dont mean to sound like mr. Right wing but all ive got to say is tough shit. I order a pizza and its free delivery if I am expected to tip the driver then its not free is it? Likewise I pay extra for the delivery surely that is cover the drivers wage/expenses?
When I pay for goods/services I expect the price of the persons wage to be covered in the cost. If these pizza places are only gonna give you gas money and basically expect you to work for free then why work there. It just seems stupid to me. If it gets to the point where someone has to rant on facebook telling customers to tip properly then why not vent that anger at their employer instead for not paying them in the first
It just seem like a completely arse over tit system where the customer takes the blame for the employee not getting paid while the big boss man rubs his hands together because hes not paying his staff but hes somehow shifted the blame onto someone
Also while im on the subject of me being a bastard. I dont see why waiters/waitresses get tips anyway. All they do is bring the food over to your table and the least you expect is that they arent rude. Im not a big fan of friendly customer service, just bring my food and do it in a polite professional manner dont try any jokes or sweeten me up just bring my food and then dont ask me how it is mid mouthful because if there was something wrong with it I wouldnt be shovelling it into my face
I love Americans but your government really doesnt give a fuck about you guys. Letting employers get away with literally not paying their staff and making you pay for your healthcare. Yes everything is more expensive in the UK and we pay more tax so but when you think about it, its a small price to pay to insure everyone is paid properly and that we get access to healthcare when needed at no cost
Personally Id rather give my money to the homeless that I would spend on a tip. At least in the UK I know everyone is paid (relatively) fairly so im better off giving my money to a homeless guy who needs it more
As another side note, if you believe the minimum wage should be increased you should understand that prices will be raised across the board to make up the difference. Unfortunately not everyone can make tons of money and I would rather not have to artificially raise my prices for my customers to make up for the price difference a minimum wage increase would cause.
I get so tired of this prices will be raised line.
I dont know how your business works, but I do know how the vast majority of businesses work. Staffing is not (except in extreme cases) the number 1 cost of a business. Most times its not even the number 2 cost. Supplies always trump staffing costs, especially in the cases of stuff like grocery stores or restaurants due to lower profit margins.
Best examples of this ever. California recently increased the minimum wage from 8 to 9 dollars an hour and will increase it again to 10 in 2016. Businesses all over cried about how it'd put them out of business, especially fast food places since they have a large amount of minimum wage workers. You know what they did in response though? Raised prices by 2-5 cents across the board. 2-5 cents, and they ended up making a larger profit than before even after factoring in the increased labor costs.
People largely don't notice an increase in prices as long as its not astronomically higher, and the only reason it'd be astronomically higher after a minimum wage increase is if you're tryin to pull a fast one on your customers, end of story.
On topic!
I work a barely minimum wage job at a grocery store and I still tip people regardless of how much they make more than me. I know some servers that make more than I do and I still do it. Just because I'm struggling doesn't mean I need to be an ass to them for being struggling slightly less. At the end of the day us lower class people need to stick together because the middle and upper class couldn't give two thoughts about us except when it suits them.
Yes. Between my friends and me, I know plenty of people who have either worked at or tried to work at one of the major pizza restaurants (Dominoes, Pizza Hut, Papa John's). All of them require their delivery people to provide their own car, and while the store may provide some compensation, for the most part, a lot of the wages, at least indirectly, will go into paying for the gas to deliver all the pizzas. I actually remember a friend from Pizza Hut making a long Facebook post meant to teach her friends how to tip simply because she or a coworker could go a few hours without technically earning anything due to bad tippers.
Now, I believe some smaller, family-owned pizza restaurants do provide the car for their workers, but this is the exception, not the norm.
I dont mean to sound like mr. Right wing but all ive got to say is tough shit. I order a pizza and its free delivery if I am expected to tip the driver then its not free is it? Likewise I pay extra for the delivery surely that is cover the drivers wage/expenses?
I wasn't trying to defend the idea. I was just giving more detail on the situation, considering it seemed to pique someone's interest enough to comment on it. Personally, I find it a horrible system, and it is only made worse by the fact that it basically exploits a lot of young workers who likely have no other option if they want a job, the work reference, and what little spending money it does provide.
If it gets to the point where someone has to rant on facebook telling customers to tip properly then why not vent that anger at their employer instead for not paying them in the first
Well, for starters, at a lot of those major restaurants, the store manager is probably just following company policy and can't do a whole lot. Some things may change based on who your manager is, but I'd imagine wages are set by someone so far removed from where the employees work that they'll likely never be able to complain to him, much less speak with him.
But even assuming that they can speak with him, they then risk getting fired, getting no income, and probably not having a reliable work reference. As I've stated, it is exploitative.
And again, I'm not trying to defend the fact that this exists. I'm just trying to explain that it is not as easy as complaining to an employer, and for a lot of people, dealing with a horrible system is better than having no job at all.
I love Americans but your government really doesnt give a fuck about you guys. Letting employers get away with literally not paying their staff and making you pay for your healthcare. Yes everything is more expensive in the UK and we pay more tax so but when you think about it, its a small price to pay to insure everyone is paid properly and that we get access to healthcare when needed at no cost
Honestly, I don't think the government will really be able to change tipping culture by changing wage and healthcare laws. Sure, a few jaded Republicans will probably stop tipping, but for the most part, I think it is just a part of the culture and has nothing to do with some understanding of its necessity to many workers. People think a pizza deliver guy will offer better service if they tip him better, so they tip as a way of "paying" for better service in the long run. People think giving money is the best way to show satisfaction, so they tip the waitress that gave them good service. Changing wage laws aren't going to get rid of that ingrained mindset. At best, it will just make life easier on the workers in case they have a lot of people who tip very little or not at all. It may not make a lot of sense, but that's about as much sense as I can make of it at this point.
And again, I'm not trying to defend tipping. If Americans want to tip, fine. If people elsewhere don't do it, that's fine as well. Heck, I'd probably prefer it if America didn't have the tipping culture that it has, even if it means slightly higher prices on food. However, I think the whole debate is making a serious issue out of nothing. If anything, we should probably talk more about the problems inherent in a system where many workers rely on such a finicky thing as tips, and while I understand the tipping debate sort of leads into that a lot of time, I don't think they are as connected as we make it out to be.
I dont see why waiters/waitresses get tips anyway. All they do is bring the food over to your table and the least you expect is that they arent rude. Im not a big fan of friendly customer service, just bring my food and do it in a polite professional manner dont try any jokes or sweeten me up just bring my food and then dont ask me how it is mid mouthful because if there was something wrong with it I wouldnt be shovelling it into my face
Well, clearly someone has never worked in the service industry.
I've never personally worked as a waiter/waitress, retail was my shitty job of choice, but quite a few of my friends have and depending on the place, it can be exhausting, with long hours, little to no breaks all the while getting yelled at by kitchen staff and customers because you're the middle-man. Like I said, if you're eating in a restaurant, you probably have a few quid to spare to give to someone for a job well done.
If you really want to cling on to your pennies then do but I'd be pretty embarrassed if I was at a restaurant with someone and the meal came to, say, 56.50 or something, and a person I was eating with paid 60 and waited for their change.
As a former pizza delivery driver, I had to expect around $3.50 USD tip per delivery just to fill my gas tank and still get to eat that night. Then again, Papa John's is being sued for skimming driver fees currently. I feel that if the money it takes to just get by relies on charity, you might as well charge the extra 10 or 20 percent. If that was the case, and Papa John's hadn't scalped me, I wouldn't have lost my apartment.
I'm talking about the US, like I said I was just talking about places where it's expected of you to tip.
I understand UK is different, tipping is not expected and it's not a cultural norm.
If you do come to the colonies it's expected that you tip, just like when I go to the UK I'm expected to call soccer football. If you come to the colonies and don't tip because you're angry at the absurd cultural idiosyncrasy that's fine too, just be a man and tell the server before hand otherwise it's a bullshit move.
It's not the worst thing in the world to do, just don't try to paint yourself a hero against a social injustice because you screwed a kid out of a few bucks and accept you pulled a bullshit move.
You know what, I don't pull dick moves and I crumble to the social norms. I travelled across Europe and made sure I took with me a travel guide that had things like tipping culture in so that I didn't make my country look bad. I was more stating how absurd it is, not that I don't do it. But if I have shitty service, I WON'T tip. Why give them extra when they gave me less? And how am I going to know what their service will be like before I order my meal? You are now the one talking bullshit.
I don't get why some Americans view tipping as compulsory. Surely a tip is a personal thank you for a job well done? Why should I be paying more for something I've already paid for?
I also don't see how it's my responsibility to make sure that a restaurant's employees are paid the minimum wage. That's the employers job. It's called the minimum wage but it seems like in the U.S. it's more of a suggestion than anything else.
If they didn't offer the service then they shouldn't be tipped for the service, if they offered the service poorly then they should be tipped poorly. 5-10% for poor, 15% for acquitted, 20%+ for great, that's the standard in the US (or if you live in the UK you're SOL.
If you really think the service sucked then by all means pay a shit tip, but if you're willing to pay $20 for caramel colored sugar water and a microwaved meal but the waitress was busy and made you wait 2 minutes before taking your order and suddenly doesn't deserve that extra $3 then your priorities are screwed.
I'm talking about places that you're expected to tip, and to people who know they're expected to tip.
It's a bullshit move, but hey lots of people pull bullshit moves, just don't get defensive when being called out on pulling a bullshit move.
Also I have next to no knowledge about the UK tipping culture, I'll be sure to google it before I make the trip because I don't want to be an ass (although from what I can tell no one tips in the UK).
You keep saying "places where you're expected to tip", but where exactly is that? What counts as a place you're expected to tip and one that doesn't? I'm getting defensive because your reasoning is obtuse and you're calling me an asshole because I don't throw money at someone for writing down my order and bringing my food to my table. THAT IS THEIR JOB. The employer pays them, not me.
Furthermore, I can't say "I'm not or I am tipping you" before they've begun their service, because I have no idea if I intend on giving the waiter a tip at that point, I'm not clairvoyant and I don't know how the service is going to be. I'm not subsidising their wages, I'm rewarding them for doing a good job, as such I don't decide to give them a tip as baseline. And like I said, when I was a waiter, I didn't expect people to give me a tip as baseline, I had to earn it, and I certainly didn't get arsey because I didn't get free money for performing the absolute minimum expected to not get fired.
Like many people here have said, you tip if the waiter has given you good service, not bare minimum and certainly not if they gave you poor service. That's basically saying "Aww you did a shit job, but here's a reward anyway you little scamp! You cocked up our order and now my girlfriend is spewing up in the toilets, but don't worry, here's a fiver for a free drink!", you don't reward crap service, that's just reinforcing the notion that they can do a shit job and get away with it. Why, oh why do the deserve a tip if they've offered you /poor/ service?
If someone did a shit job fixing your car would you give him money for it? Of course you fucking wouldn't, you'd tell him to do it again, or to fuck off and you'd take your car elsewhere.
We do tip in the UK, but as a reward for good or above what could reasonably be expected service. You don't get a bonus reward just for showing up or bad service. A medal for everyone, because you're all speshul, yaaay!
Furthermore, what makes waiters special? Nobody else is expected to be tipped except waiters and some delivery dudes. Minimum Wage exists for a reason, if your employer isn't giving it to you, he's breaking the law.
As another side note, if you believe the minimum wage should be increased you should understand that prices will be raised across the board to make up the difference. Unfortunately not everyone can make tons of money and I would rather not have to artificially raise my prices for my customers to make up for the price difference a minimum wage increase would cause.
I get so tired of this prices will be raised line.
I dont know how your business works, but I do know how the vast majority of businesses work. Staffing is not (except in extreme cases) the number 1 cost of a business. Most times its not even the number 2 cost. Supplies always trump staffing costs, especially in the cases of stuff like grocery stores or restaurants due to lower profit margins.
Best examples of this ever. California recently increased the minimum wage from 8 to 9 dollars an hour and will increase it again to 10 in 2016. Businesses all over cried about how it'd put them out of business, especially fast food places since they have a large amount of minimum wage workers. You know what they did in response though? Raised prices by 2-5 cents across the board. 2-5 cents, and they ended up making a larger profit than before even after factoring in the increased labor costs.
People largely don't notice an increase in prices as long as its not astronomically higher, and the only reason it'd be astronomically higher after a minimum wage increase is if you're tryin to pull a fast one on your customers, end of story.
On topic!
I work a barely minimum wage job at a grocery store and I still tip people regardless of how much they make more than me. I know some servers that make more than I do and I still do it. Just because I'm struggling doesn't mean I need to be an ass to them for being struggling slightly less. At the end of the day us lower class people need to stick together because the middle and upper class couldn't give two thoughts about us except when it suits them.
But as a retailer, im guessing you pretty much never get tipped (in my experience it might happen around Christmas when everyones full of good will but very rarely the rest of the year). So I dont really see how not tipping waiters and such counts as being an ass
I tip in the following situations, mostly:
1: I've been eating out with a large group. This puts a lot of stress on a waiter/waitress and it's my way to say "sorry for being a bunch of loud, semi-drunk people half of which cannot even speak the native language".
2: Exceptional service. Whether this is a waitress/waiter going the extra mile, a delivery person going through bad weather to get me my food, whatever. They did something above the norm, they deserve a little extra.
3: If they comply with an unreasonable demand from my table (moving tables to a nicer spot, stupid coctails in a bar, that sort of stuff)
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This is what tip shaming culture has come to...
