Tired of Grinds

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22Phoenix22

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Sep 15, 2008
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I'm having a problem that may sound familiar with some other members of this forum and that is that I haven't found a game in a long time that I actually enjoy. I'm thinking of the RTS genre requiring you to have korean fast keyboard skills and feels more like a job then a game (since it'll be very intensive and you just grind the tactics/build orders that you are familiar with). The only RTS that I know that isn't among this is Sins of a Solar Empire.

Now to the RPG genre, which has been annihilated since the coming of world of warcraft. Nowadays an RPG is a game where you just have to murder tons and tons of critters who are no way relevant to the story by just pressing 1 or 2. The fights aren't real time anymore and the games where they are, often suck monkeyballs like NWN 2 (which is more of a grind to the end than a real RPG).

Where are the games of old like Deus Ex (hell, even invisible war is better then the crap i've been playing lately), Diablo 2, Fable, Knights of the Old Republic and of course Ghost Recon (the original, where one bullet could kill you). If anyone knows some games I've been looking over then please point them out to me because the "been-there-done-that" shooters are getting stale and I can't get an action RPG without it being a fragfest.

- Phoenix
 

T3chn0s1s

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Aug 17, 2008
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Yeah I'm going to have to say... You're apparently missing something, because a lot of those games you listed as the besterest evar are grindfests by mechanic.
 

[zonking great]

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Aug 20, 2008
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Of those, only Diablo is really a grindfest. Not the others. So he's not as much of a hypocrit as you'd like to believe.
 

Hawgh

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Dec 24, 2007
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Exactly which versions of Diablo & NWN2 didja play?
The ones from bizarroworld?
and Fable? that's a grindfest if I ever saw one.
 

22Phoenix22

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Sep 15, 2008
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Actually, Diablo 2 shined because of the multiplayer. I totally agree that the single player was a total grind fest and I didn't enjoy it at all. However, the moment you log online and join 7 other people it can get pretty cool. Especially if you are fighting above your own level (and some of the bosses like mephi were really epic if you were just a wee bit too low level). However, the moment you reached 80 it got into a grind fest, but for that we have PvP. I have to admit I kinda lost interest after multiple chars got 80-100 but it was fun! Most of all I liked the hardcore mode, where you could actually die. This way mobs weren't just grinds, but they could be your headstone.

Edit: Like I said, NWN was a grindfest (both 1 and 2) due to the constant hordes of enemies and not much interaction in the plot development. When it comes to fable, I'd have to say there wasn't any grinding. You just had to do quests and you didn't have to wtfpwn every area again and again just to gain some levels. If you didn't want to kill anything in an area it was fine, you could just run through it. Sure the RPG side wasn't good at all but it was a fun hack and slash fest for roughly 10 hours. Nothing more and nothing less.

- Phoenix
 

Hawgh

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Dec 24, 2007
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in Diablo, everything but the occasional pvp battle is nothing but a variety of grinding.
 

Philip Kershaw

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Jun 13, 2008
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Um, Warhammer Onlien.

It may be a grind fest, But its a grind fest that is fun because the things you are grinding are OTHER PLAYERS FACES.

And you level up, get gear, and get a feeling of satisfaction.

Oh, and amoungst some of my gamer friends, the witch elf is a double edged sword. Grind your loins while ripping people to shreds.

Not grind fests? Well, If you can call RTS a grindfest "Grinding Tactics" then you were borm without a mind. Every game is a grindfest, eventually. Just play some FPS and then you will learn what "Korean Keyboard Skillz" are when people have put 3 sniper shots through your ball-sac before you have twitched.

Wiki out.
 

Hawgh

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Dec 24, 2007
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22Phoenix22 post=9.72089.747230 said:
Actually, Diablo 2 shined because of the multiplayer. I totally agree that the single player was a total grind fest and I didn't enjoy it at all. However, the moment you log online and join 7 other people it can get pretty cool. Especially if you are fighting above your own level (and some of the bosses like mephi were really epic if you were just a wee bit too low level). However, the moment you reached 80 it got into a grind fest, but for that we have PvP. I have to admit I kinda lost interest after multiple chars got 80-100 but it was fun! Most of all I liked the hardcore mode, where you could actually die. This way mobs weren't just grinds, but they could be your headstone.

Edit: Like I said, NWN was a grindfest (both 1 and 2) due to the constant hordes of enemies and not much interaction in the plot development. When it comes to fable, I'd have to say there wasn't any grinding. You just had to do quests and you didn't have to wtfpwn every area again and again just to gain some levels. If you didn't want to kill anything in an area it was fine, you could just run through it. Sure the RPG side wasn't good at all but it was a fun hack and slash fest for roughly 10 hours. Nothing more and nothing less.

- Phoenix
what you're saying is that NWN, especially the second one, linear as the story might have been, while having a good deal of sidequests, npc's with more or less fleshed out backgrounds and player interactivity that actually mattered beyond the last sequence in the game...was less of a grind than Fable, where your role was to stare at the people telling you what to do & swinging your sword around?

I think you're wrong, I honestly think you've twisted something around in your memories of those games.
 

T3chn0s1s

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Aug 17, 2008
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Yeah uhm... Let's review.

Fable: Everyone agreed that it was terribly easy to max out your physically ripplyness and beat the shit out of the game to your heart's content, and it was. However, doing so did include a level of grind. It was the same baddies, the same areas just in a different shape, there was no exploration just a streamlined grinder, and in the end if you played the lost chapters you wound up fighting the same stuff only now there were robots or some such. I don't know how this can be more of an attempt to make you munch on some grindage, but rest assured that someone was worried about the quality of your stools.

Diablo 1, 2, expansions thereof: I.. It... I'm going to specifically talk about the multiplayer here, because everyone seems in consensus that the single player was grinding. Diablo suffers from 'I'm an MMORPG, Really!' syndrome, in which everything you do is meant to simulate what we in 'the biz' (the biz being acting pretentious) like to call 'fucking off in the corner'. Did you play Diablo? Am I missing something you seemed to get? Diablo 1 had a plot that you couldn't get through without grinding for a while, but at least grinding was how you got books and found doohickeys so you weren't underpowered. However, that is still grinding. Diablo 2 decided this was foolish and gave us a pure live skill tree. Now, grinding didn't even have the illusion that you were looking for pretty loot, it was just grinding. I beat the game without any of the epic sets, and then I went to battle.net, and in a matter of days I was laid out in the most ridiculous 'my cock is bigger than yours' armor of the time. (Something with an o? I dunno, I never really got into pokemon) This was not just a grind, it was a dick measuring contest.

KoTOR: Uhm... Uh... Well see, the problem here is really that you would have a point. KoTOR can be finished, and you can achieve the max level, without ever really having to go off on your own and beat things for completion. I did generally, because I like to get my money's worth... However, if you really can say NwN was a grind, and KoTOR wasn't, you are a strange brand of geek. Did you not notice that whole, their being the same game thing? Have you not noticed that with a lot of star wars games? For instance, Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds is age of empires in spaaaaaace. Call me on it if you think I'm full of shit, but KoTOR is a grind by mechanic, they just happened to build it so seemlessly into the plot that you don't suffer for it. You either learn to fight and fight room after room of a shit ton of stupid, or you pump all your skills into repair and computers and make robots and gas clouds do it for you, but you still have to fight at least half of every dungeon. Grind Test: Play KoTOR 1 again as a guardian. Do your force jump on something. Stare in wonder and awe like the first time you saw it and went 'this is awesome'... Now, keep fighting sand people on tattooine, and see how long it takes for that 'holy crap I am awesome' feeling to become 'Well if I just finish off these guys I MIGHT find some plot again...'

Ghost Recon: Oh come on! That's not fair at all. How am I supposed to call this grind? :p


(( No one bad mouths Deus Ex. It is the golden child of all that is good and right with its kind ))
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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Diablo II: LoD (online) was half win, half fail in the grind section.

Half win cause you could easily reach lvl 80+/90 in 3 days or so doing baal runs from lvl 1. Even I who hates grind can survive 3-4 days of casual (notice "casual", not "hardcore" mode playing 12 hours a day, casual 2 hours a day or so) gaming worth of grind.

Half fail cause then you needed items, and everything worth it's salt was rare than finding a diamond in a black hole...Fortunately "dupping" was running rampant at the time I played, which somewhat fixed that "hole".

As for single player...Yep, Grindy McGrind.

Fable: I don't know what fable you guys were playing, but the only "grinding" I found on Fable was getting money, and that was only up till you figure out the "get rich quick" plan of either good or bad side. I basically played through the game and only stopped to make money to buy new shit. Once I figured out how to easily make money, I basically stock pilled myself with the best of everything, and plowed through. I regret to say I never finished it, because unfortunately I had to format my PC when I was near the end of the game, and it failed to backup the saves... lovely...


As for the topic, if you're looking for "strategy", but not specifically looking for RPGs/RTSs, SWAT 4 was a pretty good game in the realism department, and a pretty fun tactical FPS, and the Hitman series, off course, is also a good choice. If you like Hitman I'll also recommend taking a look at Assassin's Creed, it's sort of a medieval Hitman in a way.
 

T3chn0s1s

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Aug 17, 2008
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Yeah I totally love the grind. It's kind of why people like being my friend in MMOs... I do the grind so you don't have tooooo. I digress.

I'm not playing a different Fable mate. You can play the game straight through, and you can play it straight through without grinding at all, because you never even need to pick up those items you're talking about. Get a few res vials, and stock up on potions every now and again and use those first points to get physical shield... Presto! No scars, uber lebels. However...

The game in and of itself is built to make you grind. It's one of those games that tries to lengthen itself, by making you do something besides play it. That something tends to be grinding in one way or another.
 

laikenf

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Oct 24, 2007
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I can't really say much here 'cause I love grinding; grinding makes me happy :D. It's good for practice too :p, plus, you can kick ass and get rewarded for it. I'll find ways to grind in games that don't even require it.
 

poleboy

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May 19, 2008
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I can't believe you attack grinding in games and hold up Diablo II as the shining example of un-grindiness (new word?). Diablo is grind. Grind for levels, grind for loot. There is nothing else to do in the game, besides PvP. Baal runs are the very definition of grinding. In WoW, you at least have to get a decent party together and overcome some minor challenges before you can kill a boss and loot him. In Diablo, you just log into a server, rush through a few mobs, kill the boss, have your loot scooped up by someone else because there is no looting system, rinse, repeat. The very core of grinding.
Not that I don't find it fun, I enjoy what most people call grinding. But seriously, Diablo II is grindier than any MMO on the market today.
 

PxDn Ninja

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Jan 30, 2008
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Not only is Diablo a grindfest, it is a poorly executed grindfest that just won't die off. I'm hoping Diablo 3 will actually be fun for more than an hour, but I don't have high hopes. It is Blizzard after all...

As for a good RPG with little grind, I just started playing Infinite Undiscovery. I haven't noticed much grind in it, however I am only about 10 hours in. I say give it a shot if you can.
 

Digitalpotato

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Aug 29, 2008
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Amazing how people ignore Japanese RPGs...I mean you don't HAVE to grind in The World Ends With You....in Kingdom Hearts you can just run from every single non-required battle there is....and Tales of Vesperia looks real-time to me.


And Diablo 2 not grindy? No offense dude but I had to do far more grinding in that game than I even did in The World Ends With You trying to get a stupid pin to drop.