To all the people who think piracy is cool, fine, etc do any of you get paid for creative content?

[Vigormortis]

No I don't get paid for creative content, I wish I did. Of course I don't endorse piracy either.

Your post is pretty much what I was going to say.

Seriously, almost word for word. It's kind of creepy.

Anyway, I don't endorse piracy either. Save for a few exceptions.

Like acquiring an old game that's no longer available from any retailer or publisher (one that's entered the "free use" realm). Or, acquiring a crack/backup for a game you already own; and have no plans to "redistribute".

But then, I don't consider those things "piracy". So, take that as you will.

 

[razer17]

I am curious, what do you mean by "can't get a legal copy"? When or how does this happen?

Either the game was never distributed in your region (common for a lot of Japanese titles), or the game is old and hard to get(although that argument has become somewhat invalid because a lot of companies are redistributing their old IP online).

There's also the case where one simply can't afford the game and would never have bought it anyway, but that one seems like sort of a lame excuse for anyone who pays for an internet connection and owns a computer.

Yeah, the whole "game is old and hard to get" argument is becoming less of an excuse. I know here in Australia (sorry, don't know where your from so I said where I'm from for reference) we have Game Traders, where you can buy pretty much any old game for any older console, right up to Dreamcast, Super Nintendo, and other I don't remember at the moment.

Edit: Forgot to mention, if it was never released outside Japan, wouldn't that mean it was never translated to english, also meaning there may be very little reason to actually acquire the game by any means?

How is buying used games any better than pirating? In terms of effects on the developers and publishers, they don't care if you trade or pirate, it's the same thing to them. And I'm not talking about legality/morality here, just the end effect of buying used or pirating. As for why buy it? Some people speak Japanese, some are japanophiles and just want it on their shelf, because they can get a fan translation online.

As for the topic: I don't get paid for any creative things I do, so you can take what I'm about to say with a pinch of salt, but this is honestly what I would do: I would sell it, yes, but I would also allow it to be downloaded for free, on torrents or megaupload type sites. I despise the creative industries as they currently exist, and if I was making creative content (and I if I did it would be music or games) I would work outside of that, without publishers and all the other malarky that goes on.

Also, this is somewhat on topic, since it's someone who DOES get paid for their creative content talking about piracy:

 

[felbot]

its almost like my copy of medal of honour airborne that I bought for 500 crowns did work.

seriously though, bought a game for 500 crowns (or 60 dollars) and it did not work, it refused to install itself, I decided to download a pirated copy and guess what? it worked perfectly, didnt even need any money for that version.

 

[Gottesstrafe]

What about cases where either the publisher has no plans to distribute their games near you, or where the game in question is so old that the only way to get it is either an insanely lucky find at a garage sale/used game bargain bin or on Ebay/Amazon for up to 10 times its normal cost in extremely limited quantities? (i.e. System Shock 2).

 

[dyre]

I'm no artist, but I would assume that other things equal, most people prefer being paid over not being paid. Especially if it's their job and they spend months of work on their product. A lot of artists (blanket term for developers, filmmakers, writers, etc) seem to be resigned over it though, as in they know they can't stop it so they don't bother trying.

 

[Azuaron]

It's ok as long as you make up for the stuff you enjoy by buying physically or, in the case of music, going to more gigs/buying other merch.

What? No. That's like saying I can steal a case of Pepsi if I buy a hotdog from the same place.

What the fuck? That's not at all the same thing. The Pepsi is a finite resource. Digital media isn't. If you stole a CD then yeah, that would be wrong, but you're taking from an infinite resource (i.e. nothing is lost) and then contributing back to it in ways you wouldn't have otherwise.

I have only one thing to say to the finite resource "argument":

BLEEUUURRRRRRRGGG-BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLB!

Thank you.

But "I don't have enough money to pay for it" sounds exactly the same as "I chose a bad career".

I'm a student. Either way, that's pretty dumb cos not everyone can just "pick a better career".

Doesn't matter. If you can't afford it, videogames/movies/books/tv shows/other piratable media are not necessary for life; you're not stealing bread to feed your family, here, so, "I can't afford it," is not a valid excuse for piracy.

You're not gonna buy it anyway, so overall, why not? Might seem clichéd but I really would be lost if I didn't have this to resort too. Would never be able to afford the amount of music I listen to. But I can afford all the music I enjoy, which is why I have a big (and still growing) CD collection.

If you "aren't going to buy it anyway," then why are you getting it illegally? It's obviously not something you really want. If someone makes a thing, and you want to experience that thing, you have an obligation to compensate them for that thing and not be a freeloader [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5342-When-Piracy-Becomes-Theft].

Beyond that, for music specifically, you've got stuff like radio and Pandora, and with most artists putting their music on Youtube, you've really got no excuse for piracy since you can get most music free and legal with the artists' blessing.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Yeah, I'm a musician and composer. I sell my music on the internet and occasionally people buy it. But if someone were to want my stuff without paying for it? You know what, good for them. I'd be disheartened, but if they think my stuff is worth $0 then for $0 they shall have it.

I think there's a very different view between piracy as creators see it, and piracy as investors see it. Companies see a pirated game as a lost sale - and just that, a sale. They've lost $60 that they won't get back. A creator... I think they perhaps (at least I know I myself, when my stuff has been ripped off) they feel less like it's a lost sale, and more like it's lost acknowledgement. Someone thinks your thing is worth nothing. They want to play it or listen to it, and hey, that's pretty sweet! But they don't think your time was worth anything. That's sad. But it is not merely a financial stab.

Of course, though, there is a very big chance that they actually do want to pay for my things, they just can't. Or they can, but want to give it a test first. Take that guy who made McPixel, he said "hey so you want to try it for free first, that's cool! Why not buy it for cheap for a bit then also?" ...and so people did buy it for cheap! So as a creator I think it's a more personal thing. It's a connection with a person, when someone "steals" your work, and either a missed opportunity or a unique point of initiation. As a business, you don't see any of that. All you see is the money lost. I can't think of many creators who are so shallow that that's all they think about when they see those seed numbers go up on the torrent sites.

 

[AnarchistFish]

It's ok as long as you make up for the stuff you enjoy by buying physically or, in the case of music, going to more gigs/buying other merch.

What? No. That's like saying I can steal a case of Pepsi if I buy a hotdog from the same place.

What the fuck? That's not at all the same thing. The Pepsi is a finite resource. Digital media isn't. If you stole a CD then yeah, that would be wrong, but you're taking from an infinite resource (i.e. nothing is lost) and then contributing back to it in ways you wouldn't have otherwise.

I have only one thing to say to the finite resource "argument":

BLEEUUURRRRRRRGGG-BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLB!

Thank you.

That was a really fucking intelligent response.

But "I don't have enough money to pay for it" sounds exactly the same as "I chose a bad career".

I'm a student. Either way, that's pretty dumb cos not everyone can just "pick a better career".

Doesn't matter. If you can't afford it, videogames/movies/books/tv shows/other piratable media are not necessary for life; you're not stealing bread to feed your family, here, so, "I can't afford it," is not a valid excuse for piracy.

You're not gonna buy it anyway, so overall, why not? Might seem clichéd but I really would be lost if I didn't have this to resort too. Would never be able to afford the amount of music I listen to. But I can afford all the music I enjoy, which is why I have a big (and still growing) CD collection.

If you "aren't going to buy it anyway," then why are you getting it illegally?

Cos I can't afford it

It's obviously not something you really want.

lol

If someone makes a thing, and you want to experience that thing, you have an obligation to compensate them for that thing and not be a freeloader [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5342-When-Piracy-Becomes-Theft].

Beyond that, for music specifically, you've got stuff like radio and Pandora, and with most artists putting their music on Youtube, you've really got no excuse for piracy since you can get most music free and legal with the artists' blessing.

I'll compensate them if I like the product. I'm not paying them if their music is complete utter shit, which it often is. Many times I've bought albums without listening to them beforehand and been disappointed with them.

What I'm doing basically has the effect of the radio or youtube. But radio never plays the music I enjoy and it only plays individual songs so it would be completely ineffective anyway. I can't use Pandora cos I don't live in the USA. With youtube I'm reliant on the computer and again, it's in individual songs. Spotify is also computer only. Album streams are a good idea but same problem and not all albums have streams anyway. Through these things I can't experience the music to the full, on the move through my earphones, as I enjoy it, to know whether I actually want to buy it or not. But I would bet a shedload that I've spent more on music than the vast majority of people.

The only difference between my method and your method is that one is legal and one isn't. But they have the exact same effect. Actually, mine is probably more effective cos I'm open to a wider range of material.

 

[Azuaron]

Doesn't matter. If you can't afford it, videogames/movies/books/tv shows/other piratable media are not necessary for life; you're not stealing bread to feed your family, here, so, "I can't afford it," is not a valid excuse for piracy.

You see, the thing about piracy is that it doesn't need an excuse. The act of piracy in and of itself harms no-one...

Except the creator you're stealing from.

...so many pirates just go ahead and do it without some special circumstance or reason. "I can't afford it" isn't really a valid excuse for piracy, but "Random internet man doesn't like it" is also not a valid reason to not pirate.

Basically, telling people they have no excuse to pirate is not going to change any minds, if you want to convince someone not to pirate you'd have to give them an actual reason why they shouldn't.

Actually, I find that whole attitude kind of disgusting anyway. Like poor people don't deserve anything other than food and shelter, because obviously they just don't work as hard as rich people, and don't deserve it.

As someone who's mom once got scurvy when I was growing up because we couldn't afford fruit for everyone, I have to say poor people don't deserve luxury items they can't afford. And it has nothing to do with how hard they work and everything to do with nobody deserves anything they can't afford. If you want to make an argument for raising minimum wage so poor people can more easily afford luxury items, or subsidizing low-incoming housing, or doing any number of other things that will allow poor people to afford luxury items, or shortening copyright length so art enters the public domain sooner, or starting a charity to get videogames to poor kids, I'm all ears. But not paying creators isn't the answer.

Further, movies, music (radio, anyone?), books, and videogames are dirt cheap (okay, that's a lie, they're cheaper than dirt. Dirt's fracking expensive; have you ever bought fertilizer?) if you don't buy them new, if you wait for price drops, and if you spend the time to look around in the right places (I'm talking about in America; the morality and ethics of pirating because you're poor in other countries is for citizens of those countries to debate). And if you're starving and you have an XBox, SELL YOUR XBOX AND BUY SOME FOOD.

Anyway, what consumers "deserve" really has nothing to do with it; what matters is what the artists deserve. And artists deserve to be paid. Artists deserve to have their work distributed how they want it distributed, even if their distribution model of choice is incredibly stupid and annoying.

Why? Because they made it. Because they sat down one day and said, "You know, it would be good if I made this thing, and shared it with people, and the people I shared it with supported me financially so I could make more things like it without having to worry about a day job." Because they pour their lives into their work, and the people who read/play/watch their creations have an obligation to compensate them for the time they spent crafting that experience.

In a fight between someone who makes something and someone who takes something, I'll side with the creator almost every time. No, I do not make a distinction between a giant corporation and an indie developer; creators are creators, no matter their bottom line.

And you know what happens when nobody pays artists? We don't have artists anymore, except ones who are independently wealthy. So there's that.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I work as a software developer. I don't work on video games, but I would still be pretty pissed if one of the software products I develop was pirated.

I worked on that. I put my god-damn blood-sweat-and-tears into that. If you don't think it's worth the price my company has set, then that's fine - you don't get to use it.

Besides, if everyone pirated software instead of paying for it, I wouldn't have a job. Software pirates rely on other people (who do pay for the software) to support the industry.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

My response:

1) Nobody but 10 year old who just discovered the internet think piracy is "cool". People pirate because they don't want to pay for things.

2) I have almost never the arguments you presented. The much more common (and reasonable) arguments are "Is it really a lost sale?", "Nothing is actually lost by the publisher" and "Fuck DRM/EA/Activision/insert something bad here, I won't give them my money"

3) The "You wouldn't like it if it happened to YOU!" argument, is really quite terrible. It's completely speculative, it can be easily rebutted by people who really didn't care and it could be applied to everything from natural disasters to 3 Stooges slapstick.

On a final note, even if there are content creators on the Escapist who don't mind piracy, they can't come out in support of it because mods/rules are a bit draconian in that matter.

 

[Azuaron]

I have only one thing to say to the finite resource "argument":

BLEEUUURRRRRRRGGG-BLBLBLBLBLBLBLBLB!

Thank you.

That was a really fucking intelligent response.

Thank you. I try.

I'll compensate them if I like the product. I'm not paying them if their music is complete utter shit, which it often is. Many times I've bought albums without listening to them beforehand and been disappointed with them.

What I'm doing basically has the effect of the radio or youtube. But radio never plays the music I enjoy and it only plays individual songs so it would be completely ineffective anyway. I can't use Pandora cos I don't live in the USA. With youtube I'm reliant on the computer and again, it's in individual songs. Spotify is also computer only. Album streams are a good idea but same problem and not all albums have streams anyway. Through these things I can't experience the music to the full, on the move through my earphones, as I enjoy it, to know whether I actually want to buy it or not. But I would bet a shedload that I've spent more on music than the vast majority of people.

The only difference between my method and your method is that one is legal and one isn't. But they have the exact same effect. Actually, mine is probably more effective cos I'm open to a wider range of material.

Ah, piracy as free trial. I mostly don't see a problem with that, particularly if we're talking about country-locked content. But the primary argument for that isn't, "I'm poor," it's, "I want to know if I like it first."

 

[IamQ]

My two cents on piracy are this: I think it's bad. I know it's bad. But as long as it's avaible I'll use it, and when/if it's gone I won't hate.

 

[D-Class 198482]

I only pirate fairly old games, so I'm not too sure, but I do know a few odd folks who both made the games and actually set them up on piratebay (such as the creator of McPixel, who made a McPixel torrent)

 

[Something Amyss]

Well I know Notch doesn't mind piracy and sees it as some form of free advertising. And also CD Projekt don't bother to stop piracy because sticking DRM in games just hurts the folks who buy the game legit.

CDP still thinks piracy is bad, though. They're not saying it's cool or fine, just that they're not going to punish us paying consumers for their acts.

I don't understand why you'd ask that question in the title. It doesnt matter what the pirate's job is. Downloading something off the internet you can't get a legal copy of or avoiding a company's bullshit distribution sound like a legit reason to do it. Doesnt matter that they're not in the same situation as those who make the game.

For one thing, you've completely rephrased the issue into one different than the topic creator was bringing up. I mean, you do know there's more piracy out there than simply "I can't find it in my region," right?

But the point being "if you're advocating taking someone's content without paying them, are you in their shoes?" is not really a bad question to ask.

This would be a no-brainer. People spend money all the time. If they don't spend it on one thing, they'll spend it on another. But how does this make it a neutral effect? If instead of spending, say, 100$ on video games, one spends them on a new sofa, I don't see this as a neutral balance. The same argument can be had about robbers - sure they can steal money, but the money gets back into the economy, so it seems that robbery has a neutral effect.

Yeah, pretty much this. It only seems neutral if you're not the one who isn't getting money. I doubt the couch makers would particularly feel good, either, if you could download a complete couch from couchster.

Not to be confused with coochster, but we won't go there.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

What about cases where either the publisher has no plans to distribute their games near you, or where the game in question is so old that the only way to get it is either an insanely lucky find at a garage sale/used game bargain bin or on Ebay/Amazon for up to 10 times its normal cost in extremely limited quantities? (i.e. System Shock 2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

Besides, if everyone pirated software instead of paying for it, I wouldn't have a job. Software pirates rely on other people (who do pay for the software) to support the industry.

Which is why every software cracker worth their salt includes a "like this software? Then support the developer!" disclaimer. If the industry died they'd be out of a job, too. They're parasites, not competitors.

 

[Something Amyss]

My two cents on piracy are this: I think it's bad. I know it's bad. But as long as it's avaible I'll use it, and when/if it's gone I won't hate.

It's bad, but I'll do it anyway?

Okay?

 

[Odbarc]

Games I like, I buy.
Games that suck shit, I play for free.

I do not get paid to create content. I've done it for free.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Games I like, I buy.
Games that suck shit, I play for free.

Argument holds little water: if the games suck shit, you wouldn't really want to play it.

Unless you play games before making up your mind. But I wouldn't call that "playing for free" if I were you, unless you wanted people like me to jump down your throat RAWR