To Only Examine Inaccurate Portrayals of Females And Not Males Is Sexist
- Thread starter Jangles
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Chris Redfield is one that pops in my mind. In the first games, he was normal. But in 5, his muscles were so... pointless. I won't go much further on this, since everyone has made fun of him.
There are a good number of women in games who are normal, like Jill Valentine, most of the women in the GTA franchise, Aya Brea, Faith, Alyx and I can go on for a while like this. So despite what the world might say, I think people are hammering too hard on what's wrong and blowing it up to epic proportions.
There are a good number of women in games who are normal, like Jill Valentine, most of the women in the GTA franchise, Aya Brea, Faith, Alyx and I can go on for a while like this. So despite what the world might say, I think people are hammering too hard on what's wrong and blowing it up to epic proportions.
This guy wins logic forever.Kahunaburger said:
Also worthy of note: There's a difference between looking sexy and looking ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of gaming's audience consists of male gamers, so they can't get away with making men look fresh out of a strip club. So we don't really have an accurate frame of reference.
In comparison, yes, it's completely possible to make an attractive female character that isn't wearing high heels or a metal thong. I thought Mirror's Edge did a pretty good job.
In the end, yes, men are glorified in video games and cinema, but no, that does not nearly come close to scratching the surface of the oversexualization of females in games.
And really, in comparison to the massive amount of tits you see in games, just how much male frontal nudity is there?
I think the main point is one that I never want to admit: It's about market share.
As a non-white male gamer, I too would like to feel represented every now and again. It bothers me that the only way I can see someone who looks like me is a Nigh-psychotic (although admittedly awesome) thrashball player, or a thug homicidal maniac, or as a fat washed up football player who has to read every sign he sees out loud (USE YOUR INNER VOICE, COACH).
But in simple terms, Black, Latino, Female... we don't make up the market as white males do. Notice how I left out asian. They seem to be fine with their Caucasian representation that their own designers make them out to be, so that's good with me. Although I would love to discuss that in length one day. It weirds me out.
If you look at every developer interview, they say the same thing about their main character: "We really wanted to design a main character that the player can relate to". Notice the look of the person who's normally saying that. He's not faulty for thinking that way. Most players WOULD identify with that character because the majority of the gamers would stride to be that character as it represents what he most would like to achieve.
I don't feel that way, not being white male. A few of us like Bara_no_Hime will not want to achieve that. But we are far out stripped. As wonderful as it would be to be represented, with the high cost of games, designers and developers will not take chances and will pander to the largest market share.
Girls will be hot and big breasted, deciding a war zone is the best place to so off her mid drift and cleavage
Blacks will be loud, inhumanly muscled, and probably not really understand how to speak english.
Latinos will be limited to Dom and Alyx
As a non-white male gamer, I too would like to feel represented every now and again. It bothers me that the only way I can see someone who looks like me is a Nigh-psychotic (although admittedly awesome) thrashball player, or a thug homicidal maniac, or as a fat washed up football player who has to read every sign he sees out loud (USE YOUR INNER VOICE, COACH).
But in simple terms, Black, Latino, Female... we don't make up the market as white males do. Notice how I left out asian. They seem to be fine with their Caucasian representation that their own designers make them out to be, so that's good with me. Although I would love to discuss that in length one day. It weirds me out.
If you look at every developer interview, they say the same thing about their main character: "We really wanted to design a main character that the player can relate to". Notice the look of the person who's normally saying that. He's not faulty for thinking that way. Most players WOULD identify with that character because the majority of the gamers would stride to be that character as it represents what he most would like to achieve.
I don't feel that way, not being white male. A few of us like Bara_no_Hime will not want to achieve that. But we are far out stripped. As wonderful as it would be to be represented, with the high cost of games, designers and developers will not take chances and will pander to the largest market share.
Girls will be hot and big breasted, deciding a war zone is the best place to so off her mid drift and cleavage
Blacks will be loud, inhumanly muscled, and probably not really understand how to speak english.
Latinos will be limited to Dom and Alyx
Very... um... creative wording on that last part. Arguably, I do like adopting the female choice in any game I play that has it, but not often for that reason.Bara_no_Hime said:
That being said, wanting a strong female character... what would you say to an NCIS game with Jenny Shepard as the lead role? Or a new Call of Duty-esque game featuring missions such as that of Leigh Ann Hester?
Personally, I'd prefer well written characters to any other option, but especially would like to see more well written female protagonists, if for no other reason than at least that would be something I could hold up as a good reason for less women to see gaming as a boys club. Hell, I would especially applaud a well written female villain, as well written would mean eschewing both the former-protagonist-love-interest archetype and the feminazi archetype (at least in my book. That just makes their motivations too easy.)
Also, most games have you playing as a male, so when you sexually objectify a male as a designer the audience isn't objectifying them. The audience is pretending to be them, and therefore they want to pretend to be better than they are. When women are objectified it is usually side-characters or NPCs, so that sexualisation is directly about objectification.F said:
Obviously this is not universally true, there are examples of men not being the protagonist, yet being objectified, and examples of them being the protagonist yet being scrawny, or young, or whatever. I think that you need to treat the sexualisation of men and women separately for the sole reason that people view them separately. Men are rarely sexualised in games as a means of sexual objectification, so the focus should be on stopping the promotion of an unrealistic or unattainable portrayal of male physique, whereas with women, the focus should be on preventing basic sexualisation and instead on promoting the view of women as societal equals to men. There are two different motivations and effects of the sexualisation of men and women, and as long as the motivations are different treating them as the same thing will limit the effectiveness of counter-acting them (or, worse, it could 'fix' the perceived issue at the unecessary expense of other factors that aren't bad).
Yeah... I'm starting to get that impression.Kahunaburger said:
I still stand by my previous statement. I for one would like to see more women welcomed into the medium, and I think it will take more than just changing the female characters to do it. The female characters are sexist and they are a sign of a bigger problem that needs to be fixed. I am definitely starting to get tired of playing musclebound emotionless order-following soldiers. I wouldn't mind a breath of fresh air.
That being said, I am remembering some things that do help a bit to relieve that. I remember Marcus Fenix's severe daddy issues (a male character having that for once.) I remember the main character of Shadow of the Colossus being a teenage boy. I remember arguing with my brother for five minutes over who got to play the short, skinny guy who questioned orders almost all the time in Army of Two. But we need those characters like we need a hole in the head. Cerebral hemorrhage fixed now, thank you doc. Do you think you could put away the drill and give us some penicillin now? Like more of Chell from Portal, or more Commander Shepard (honestly, the male one is poorly done enough, I don't think he's supposed to be the real Shepard.) Or just let me pick, so I can choose to be whichever character I want in whatever game I'm playing, and don't crap out on me by giving me a one-sided choice.
*Actually, just realising that while perfect for everyone else, the penicillin analogy is bad for me as I'm deathly allergic to it. Oh well.
Voila! And exactly why there should not be and is not really an issue. The developers have picked their audience and they are catering for it. However, at the same time, they are limiting their audience, so by characterising the female properly and not oversexualising, they widen their audience. The extra credits on "real female characters" deals with this well.Jangles said:
Yes indeed! See, this is the right kind of thinking! ^^OldGus said:
Actually, Jenny Shepard is a really interesting choice. When I think of NCIS, I think of Ziva - now SHE would make a fun protagonist for a crime/actiony game. But Jen would be an excellent character in a less shooty, more investigaty or political or spyish game. Of course, as we know, Jen is no slouch with a gun either....
