To people with epilepsy

[happyninja42]

Have any of you ever actually had a seizure triggered by video games? I've only known one person who had epilepsy, and as far as I know, she didn't play video games. She was also just a coworker so I didn't really socialize with her.

But I've always wondered if it actually is a risk that frequently happens with video games, or if those warnings are simply the gaming industry covering their ass over an incredibly unlikely, and possibly fictional, possibility of a medical issue.


So can any of you confirm this as being an actual, real concern?

 

[Lilani]

I think it depends on the person and the game, as well as the conditions around them. I have a friend with epilepsy, and his main triggers are very fast flashing lights in the dark, or extremely bright flashing things in the light. I'm sure it's happened before--games often involve sudden flashes and if you aren't playing in a well-lit room or aren't a good distance from the screen, can be a very concentrated dose of stimuli. Most people who have had epilepsy from a long time are familiar with what triggers them, but video games are one of those things that you don't really know what it's like until you try it.

So depending on the severity of the epilepsy, I would say yes, it's a risk to consider.

 

[Jack24]

I had a friend whose epilepsy was triggered by video games but he did have it bad, he also had to avoid a certain kind of lighting in stores.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I was part expecting this thread to be full of flashing animations.

 

[happyninja42]

I think it depends on the person and the game, as well as the conditions around them. I have a friend with epilepsy, and his main triggers are very fast flashing lights in the dark, or extremely bright flashing things in the light. I'm sure it's happened before--games often involve sudden flashes and if you aren't playing in a well-lit room or aren't a good distance from the screen, can be a very concentrated dose of stimuli. Most people who have had epilepsy from a long time are familiar with what triggers them, but video games are one of those things that you don't really know what it's like until you try it.

So depending on the severity of the epilepsy, I would say yes, it's a risk to consider.

Right, that's kind of why I made this post, to actually get some confirmation on this particular issue. Cause I've been seeing it as a warning for decades, but can't find one person who can confirm that it's actually happened to them.

I had a friend whose epilepsy was triggered by video games but he did have it bad, he also had to avoid a certain kind of lighting in stores.

Ah, I see. Thanks for that, was hoping to get some direct confirmation about it.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

I for one, have never had a seizure from gaming, however, there are two things to keep in mind:

1) Epilepsy varies widely in intensity and triggers. My aunt can have seizures from seemingly out of nowhere, even in the shower or going out to get the mail. In me, the genetic trait is lessened greatly, as I have not had any severe seizures, and only three minor ones, the last at age 12. (This caused me to fall down stairs and break my arm, but that is not necessarily due to the intensity of the episode.)

2) Modern LCD TV sets are much less likely to trigger seizures than CRT sets. The Cathode Ray Tube literally beams light at an intensity the is common in triggers for epilepsy, and their lower refresh rates intensify flickering. Whereas modern LCDs with fast refresh rates and smooth light transitions are much less dangerous for those with epilepsy.

None of this means that I want to see intense light flashes in my games, but game developers have been wary of epilepsy -much like how many are now being wary of color-blindness- and take precautions to lower intensity and duration of flashing. Also, having a degree of control over the light -like pausing the game- can really help too.

 

[happyninja42]

I for one, have never had a seizure from gaming, however, there are two things to keep in mind:

1) Epilepsy varies widely in intensity and triggers. My aunt can have seizures from seemingly out of nowhere, even in the shower or going out to get the mail. In me, the genetic trait is lessened greatly, as I have not had any severe seizures, and only three minor ones, the last at age 12. (This caused me to fall down stairs and break my arm, but that is not necessarily due to the intensity of the episode.)

Yes, the one person I worked with who has epilepsy would have seizures randomly at work. I was the First Aid Responder so I was usually called quickly to help deal with her. Which is why I was curious about the video game thing, and whether or not it was just a case of people randomly having a seizure while playing a game, and people falsely associating the two things, thus causing the warnings.

2) Modern LCD TV sets are much less likely to trigger seizures than CRT sets. The Cathode Ray Tube literally beams light at an intensity the is common in triggers for epilepsy, and their lower refresh rates intensify flickering. Whereas modern LCDs with fast refresh rates and smooth light transitions are much less dangerous for those with epilepsy.

None of this means that I want to see intense light flashes in my games, but game developers have been wary of epilepsy -much like how many are now being wary of color-blindness- and take precautions to lower intensity and duration of flashing. Also, having a degree of control over the light -like pausing the game- can really help too.

Ah, that's interesting to know. Glad to hear the technology is making it less likely to trigger the seizures. Thanks for your input.

 

[Hoplon]

I for one, have never had a seizure from gaming, however, there are two things to keep in mind:

1) Epilepsy varies widely in intensity and triggers. My aunt can have seizures from seemingly out of nowhere, even in the shower or going out to get the mail. In me, the genetic trait is lessened greatly, as I have not had any severe seizures, and only three minor ones, the last at age 12. (This caused me to fall down stairs and break my arm, but that is not necessarily due to the intensity of the episode.)

2) Modern LCD TV sets are much less likely to trigger seizures than CRT sets. The Cathode Ray Tube literally beams light at an intensity the is common in triggers for epilepsy, and their lower refresh rates intensify flickering. Whereas modern LCDs with fast refresh rates and smooth light transitions are much less dangerous for those with epilepsy.

None of this means that I want to see intense light flashes in my games, but game developers have been wary of epilepsy -much like how many are now being wary of color-blindness- and take precautions to lower intensity and duration of flashing. Also, having a degree of control over the light -like pausing the game- can really help too.

Sorry slight pedantry here, LCD's and CRT have very similar refresh rates, though CRT's had lower bottom end and LCDs higher top end. the lack of flicker is due to the back light being an LED in most new LCD's. early LCD's had a cold cathode ray back light and so where not flicker free.

Your point does stand that if they don't use strobe effects there is no longer an inherent danger for those with photo sensitivity due to the lack of flicker in the display tech.

 

[Something Amyss]

Right, that's kind of why I made this post, to actually get some confirmation on this particular issue. Cause I've been seeing it as a warning for decades, but can't find one person who can confirm that it's actually happened to them.

Okay, well, I can't confirm that, but certain strobing effects in games and TV can trigger my migraines, and the drug I take to deal with them is an antiseizure because I guess there's some similarity. I haven't had a game trigger me in years, so I don't remember the last one, but given that, I very much believe that it happens.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

Sorry slight pedantry here, LCD's and CRT have very similar refresh rates, though CRT's had lower bottom end and LCDs higher top end. the lack of flicker is due to the back light being an LED in most new LCD's. early LCD's had a cold cathode ray back light and so where not flicker free.

Your point does stand that if they don't use strobe effects there is no longer an inherent danger for those with photo sensitivity due to the lack of flicker in the display tech.

No. there is a huge difference between the Cathode Ray Tube and the Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamps used for older LCD models. Cathode really just means a type of electric charge, so the difference is between the Ray Tube and the Fluorescent Lamps. The Lamps were oriented -usually- at the sides of the screen shining through the LCD lengthwise, while CRT literally shoots electrons and photons at the eyes of the viewer. That is why it is called a Ray Tube. Some very large and expensive models of LCD had Ray Lamps, because situating the lamps at the sides of the screen would leave the center dark, but those were reasonably rare and are now almost non-existent.

CRT carries with it inherent problems for some epileptics. This is why TV and games often caused seizures, while refracted-light pictures -such as at a xenon projection movie theater- were less dangerous.

Back when games were becoming popular in the 70s and 80s, the standard CRT refresh for consumer models was much lower than it is today, usually 24-30 interlaced frames per second. On high-end enterprise studio and computer monitors it was higher, but for the average consumer it was rare to see more than 30 hertz. As the 90s progressed, refresh rates did as well, as satellite and cable TV allowed much higher bandwidth, and computing pushed the price of high refresh rates down. However, in the context of the consumer warnings of video games popularized by the success of the NES and Master System, there is no need to mention enterprise-level technology.

Also, signals were often delivered through the RF coaxial, and suffered heavy degradation, expounded by low fidelity, and again expounded by low refresh, and again expounded by the situation and nature of light sources. In the late 80s and early 90s, the booming popularity of the RCA jacks for video signals, then the popularity of Separated Video helped, but was far from enough to deter companies from issuing warnings about epilepsy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backlight#CCFL_backlights
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube

 

[rosac]

Mines triggered by either alcohol or fatigue (most likely both together) so I'm fairly useless here, but yes, games with flashing lights probably could trigger a seizure.

 

[queenie]

Well, seizures that are triggered by visual stimuli are fairly rare even among epileptics (who also happen to be relatively rare), so I don't think that there would be a large population of gamers with that issue. Not to mention, if you do actually have photosensitive epilepsy, exactly how it's triggered varies wildly from person to person. Some people might get a seizure if a light is flashing five times per second, but not if it's flashing six times per second. Some people get seizures from being exposed to certain static patterns, sometimes only in a particular colour. All of which is to say that any given game, no matter how flashy, is unlikely to cause seizures in a large number of people.

That being said, while seizures can be triggered by all sorts of patterns, the most common type is high-contrast flashing lights. It makes sense to put warnings on games that include patterns of flashing lights, since seizures kind of really suck. A lot. They probably suck a lot more if you get one mid-quest and then wake up, sore and tired and occasionally covered in blood, and realise that YOU CAN NEVER FINISH IT.

On an individual level, how careful you should be depends on which one of the roughly bajillion types of epilepsy you've got. My brand of epilepsy doesn't really get triggered by anything that isn't getting up at the crack of dawn after only two hours of sleep, so it only gets in the way of gaming in the sense that I can't spend all night playing games.